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Yes me big mario supporter i need to prove armor evil i get so much seratonin from it.
You know I'm not doing that, dude.
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Possible Mario Profile Split/Varies Rating
- Thread starter Armorchompy
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You know I'm not doing that, dude.
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Armor you know she talks in a harsh manner in general, I don't think you should take it personally
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- #84
Fair enough, I'll let whatever that was slide.
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The thing with some of this stuff is that it's clearly inconsistent, TTyd plot has Mario fighting a character who leveled a city to the ground and Origami King's plot involves Olly who was warping reality to recreate the mushroom kingdom, that's much higher than many of the smaller anti-feats
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Many of them are linked together though. We see Rosalina's observatory in 3D land, we see Luigi's mansion in MKDD, many of them are together
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- #88
I mean no offense, but that's just two more feats (that aren't necessarily accepted and i don't know the context of), vs 60+
I mean, if they are different canons profiles would have to be split, keys don't make much sense, either it's different canons or not.
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- #90
That bit is over, don't worry about it. Just let my stress take the best of me for a second
Pikaman
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The goal isn’t to separate the games and their subsets by canon, time, etc. But by the notable difference in power the characters have in these games. Kirby has multiple keys for the same franchise with a linear plot because he got noticeably more powerful and it didn’t make sense to attribute his new feats to his older self, it should be simple to apply the same logic to Mario, which has less clear canon. It’s the same Mario, different levels of power and feats depending on the games you look at though
Honestly, it’s a wonder this wasn’t done sooner, there’s clearly a big jump between Mario in some of his adventures before Galaxy and during Galaxy, but we treat Mario as if he had his Galaxy level power back in his earliest instalments
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One thing I should mention is that, usually addressing some high end feats and determining how consistent they are in their own right while also acknowledging that it fits with the Lore scaling is often the more preferred method. Hopefully I'm not too exhausted from my work shift that I have to leave for in about 10 minutes. Plus there is a difference between direct feats and indirect feats; if it looks inconsistent direct feat wise, it may be a different story indirect feat wise.
Also, Mario isn't very consistently portrayed as a Type III Protagonist unlike most RPG/Shounen verses, he's more like a Type II. And I don't think anyone actually supports him being Type I. Sure power growth looks like it in Paper Mario and the M&L series, but that can be contested with the whole "He reverts back to level 1 next RPG". And he had crazy feats in galaxy but went back to appearing much less impressive in Odyssey.
Also, Mario isn't very consistently portrayed as a Type III Protagonist unlike most RPG/Shounen verses, he's more like a Type II. And I don't think anyone actually supports him being Type I. Sure power growth looks like it in Paper Mario and the M&L series, but that can be contested with the whole "He reverts back to level 1 next RPG". And he had crazy feats in galaxy but went back to appearing much less impressive in Odyssey.
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Headcanon
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Two of them are in the same franchise and are part of the plot, and even in your blog you still have multiple tier 7 feats
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That and also the fact that Mario games are technically connected to each other, at bare least because you can see newer games referring old ones.
Examples: Super Mario Sunshine, Mario Odyssey technically, Donkey Kong Country (as long as you'll take that as part of Mario universe) and likely more and more.
As well as there nothing that tells that those are different Marios.
Pikaman
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It’s just my interpretation of how to make sense of Mario’s inconsistency. Something that is inevitably going to have to happen here, head canon is not trying to reach a logical estimate on how a certain event/system works and occurs when we don’t have a direct source to give an answer
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- #97
I mean, I don't think lore takes precedence over shown feats, both of them are things told in story and have an equal amount of veracity. In fact it could be argued lore is a smidge less valid since it could be misinterpreted more easily.
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- #98
Anti-feats, really. Most of them basically kill or injure the protags.
Regardless, it might not be the most fruitful to continue this RN, as I understand impress is working on her thread and it would take precedence over this.
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??????
Dust_Collector
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Can someone bring me up to speed on what's even happening now because I'm seeing stuff about splitting all the Mario games apart and Mario being a Type 2 protagonist or something.
In regards to the OP and trying to just, ignore whatever the hell happened afterwards, galaxy level not being consistent enough for a solid rating is fine I guess? Not sure what rating we'd use to replace it with tho.
In regards to the OP and trying to just, ignore whatever the hell happened afterwards, galaxy level not being consistent enough for a solid rating is fine I guess? Not sure what rating we'd use to replace it with tho.
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Idk why protagonists needs types. The types they need are like shit, meh, good
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- #103
um basically i don't think there's an opinion as a whole on OP but impress things a canon split is necessary, is working on a thread about it and that would take precedence, types are part of a sort of battleboarding theory medeus has got i think
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Yeah no, sorry but I can't ******* agree with this at all. Most of the "anti-feats" you used are either:
A. Gameplay Mechanics
B. PIS
C. Barely matter in the long run
Using those to scrutinize Mario stats when literally every single series has this problem, some even more than Mario like Marvel and DC, is literally just downplay at this point. They don't discredit any of the feats the cast have down at all. I really hope this doesn't go through, because it could really ruin your credibility.
A. Gameplay Mechanics
B. PIS
C. Barely matter in the long run
Using those to scrutinize Mario stats when literally every single series has this problem, some even more than Mario like Marvel and DC, is literally just downplay at this point. They don't discredit any of the feats the cast have down at all. I really hope this doesn't go through, because it could really ruin your credibility.
DragonLord
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As people who saw past threads can probably tell I agree. From what I’ve seen across the games Tier 8 to Tier 7 seems the most believable even if that still has it’s anti feats of course. But Galaxy Level is ridiculous
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- Thread starter
- #109
I would like you to explain how this is the case, given I have gone out of my way to avoid those. Remember that PIS is a subjective concept that we use to accomodate the possibility of some inconsistencies and higher-end feats can very well be PIS, and gameplay mechanics have a strict definition that I ask you make sure you are familiar with before replying.
Completely subjective.
Trust me, I've done research for both, even Marvel and DC don't have this anti-feat to feat ratio, at least not using accepted feats.
I think I'll be fine, thanks for the concern.
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Galaxy level is really not ridiculous
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We have a history of heavily scrutinizing Marvel & DC for their myriad of inconsistencies, so I don't think that's a good example
Whataboutisms in general should be avoided of course.
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Don't have an opinion on mario itself, but I'm general, Galaxy level, in fact, is quite ridiculous for most stories/verses.
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Not really
Pikaman
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Yeah, also, isn’t all of Mario’s Galaxy level feats from Galaxy games? Why does Mario from at the very least before Galaxy scale to himself during/after Galaxy, there could very easily be a great increase in power somewhere along the line, like Kirby
Sorry for mentioning Kirby so much but they just keep on being a great analogy for why 3-C just don’t work and alternatives that already have wiki precedent
Sorry for mentioning Kirby so much but they just keep on being a great analogy for why 3-C just don’t work and alternatives that already have wiki precedent
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- #115
I mean Kirby doesn't have too many antifeats (minus silly stuff like being hurt by a falling apple in one of I think Adventure's cutscenes), it's just assumed he grows in power because of some statements. There's actually some pushback about that rn, not sure how the thread is looking but people were disagreeing with that.
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Yes really.
Anyway, since this thread is gonna go for multiple pages, I would recommend everyone to refrain from commenting unless they are bringing forth proper arguments (backed with evidence and whatnot, ofc). And also, avoid brining up other verses. I will let Kirby slide for now, but in the future, stick to relevant stuff pls.
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For starters, most of the evidence you used were from very early on in the Mario series, before they hit all the big stuff. Most of the other examples you used were literally gameplay, including Bowser being hurt by stuff that are literally required by game to defeat them, even if you ignore this, it's literally Mario's force he applies to the objects to hurt Bowser. Mario is comparable to Bowser if not slightly weaker. Most of the other examples are of characters barely getting hurt from falling, being launched, or whatever, which are shit you can apply to every other fictional character. Even then, all of those are shit the cast have survived without much problem, like the explosion in the Golf games.
Also, you have to remember writers aren't making these characters with power scaling in mind. Also using them being scared of shit as anti-feats is stupid as hell when Goku had a running gag of being scared of needles.
I'm pretty sure they do, given their longer histories. Not that it matters, since their feats massively outweigh their anti-feats
Not for so long, people would still be making fun of VBW for this.
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Maybe? I'm pretty sure he has more from other games. They probably haven't been looked at.
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- Thread starter
- #119
Not really, around half the examples come from after Galaxy, roughly.
I really shouldn't be saying this given the sandbox addresses it already but to quote the page itself, "Game Mechanics refers to the abilities shown in games (usually video games) that are determined by the rules of the game (examples include hit points, levels, statistics, world map crossing in seconds outside of cinematics, etcetera) and are not necessarily indicative of a character's or entity's actual abilities."
Mario being unable to break a brick when he's not big is a game mechanic, it's just a generic thing that was done for gameplay's sake. But something like the Bowser bosses in SM64 isn't a "rule" of a game, the developers specifically decided that Bowser should be defeated by being thrown into small bombs, modeled those bombs, placed them in the arena (and nowhere else) and programmed a specific interaction where Bowser's health would be depleted by hitting them.
The issue is what hurts Bowser is not the force of the throw but a small explosion.
I've already addressed how surviving something but being hurt by it is still an anti-feat.
Yeah, cause needles can pierce him lol. There's a whole ass mechanic explaining why too.
Bingo. And that is not the case here. You genuinely won't be able to find many more genuine anti-feats for Superman than feats that debunk them, and definitely not as many as I just did.
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Proof? How many 3-C feats does Mario have? The profiles only use 2.
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