• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Possible Downgrade for LN Rimuru CM type 2.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Elde you sent me one with the source of world. Can you send me the whole context with "will" because I feel it is simply taken out of context.
 
ImmortalDread said:
Elde you sent me one with the source of world. Can you send me the whole context with "will" because I feel it is simply taken out of context.
Click to expand...
Here
Sometime after Guy awaked to become a demon lord, it didn’t take long before someone else awaked to become a true demon lord.
That someone was Milim. The ancestors of the four “True Dragons” emerged to the physical world and bred with humans.
What incredible thing was that the “True Dragon” who reproduced with humans were deprived of most of its power by their offspring. From then on, the breeding of True Dragon and Human became a taboo.
The true dragon who lost its power exploded into pieces. But it was successful in obtaining flesh on the ground world. It became the ancestors of dragon race.
The future generation would instead call the “Holy Will of Nature” as the “True Dragon.”
Nowadays, the dragon race is able to prosper on this land and its origin can all be traced to this one ancestor dragon.
Click to expand...
 
This sounds nitpicking the term to get AE type 1 out of context.

"Holy Will of Nature" suggests that the dragon race, which was able to prosper and trace its origins back to this one ancestor dragon, is seen as an embodiment of the natural order or will of the world.

This is a supporting evidence for AE type 2.
 
Last edited:
ImmortalDread said:
This sounds nitpicking the term to get AE type 1 out of context.

"Holy Will of Nature" suggests that the dragon race, which was able to prosper and trace its origins back to this one ancestor dragon, is seen as an embodiment of the natural order or will of the world.

This is a supporting evidence for AE type 2.
Click to expand...
The problem is
  1. Source of the world
  2. Holy will of nature
Lacks Context. Author simply spammed those words without explaining further. Now it seems like just nitpicking.

Especially when you think about the fact Veldora who is also a true dragon needs physical body to exists otherwise his spiritual form will eventually gets erased just shows they are not abstract existence completely. It's just limited usage.
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
Holy Will of Nature seems to imply something else rather than will itself and this name was coined by the future generation. this scan isn't really proving anything on its own so we proceed with the next scan
Click to expand...
This is from Volume 1.
TheGreatJedi13 said:
The source of the world. This is left vague but if we are to believe this is governing anything do we get secondary proof that implies that the existence of the True Dragon is what created the world? if yes then how so.
Click to expand...
As far as I remember the first True Dragon Veldanava, created the world, and with the creation of the world, True Dragons were born.
TheGreatJedi13 said:
The thing about having no attachment to their body's scans kinda shoots the entire argument to the foot due to how one said their manifestations are merely because of the belief of people. meaning them as Abstract Type 1 is powerless and merely exists as a concept as it is and without anything else and since their manifestations are formed by the belief of other people that sound like Type 3 concept instead, their manifestations are reliant on this Concept that is the idea formed by the personal belief of multiple individuals
This would prove abstract Type 1 and 2 for the body but shoots it to being a concept Type 2
Click to expand...
What exactly is your suggestion?
 
CodeCCLL said:
This is from Volume 1.

As far as I remember the first True Dragon Veldanava, created the world, and with the creation of the world, True Dragons were born.

What exactly is your suggestion?
Click to expand...
I guess I will agree with CM type 2 abstraction if staff agrees for statement of Holy Will statement but it's not combat applicable because of no context. It should be noted as weakness.

Even your manga scan and LN scan states True Dragons would disappear without physical body and reborn as new implies Abstract Existence should be limited and don't see how this would help in any combat.

Is there any other feats or Statement where this abstraction is used for combat ?
 
CodeCCLL said:
As far as I remember the first True Dragon Veldanava, created the world, and with the creation of the world, True Dragons were born.
Click to expand...
thanks for the further scans
does Veldanava as a true dragon makes her equal to other true dragons? or she is completely different from True dragons that were born after she created the world?
CodeCCLL said:
What exactly is your suggestion?
Click to expand...
The thing is while true as the Will of Nature and Abstract that is the source of the world (assumed as law based on the context of the scan). They could be given abstract type 1
but the problem is they are completely powerless in this state. Them returning from this abstract type 1 is autonomous at best as they can simply just disappear and then be reborn and they don't really retain their knowledge and memories properly as if their entire being of what makes them themselves isn't with the Type 1 Abstract that they are. so yes they are Type 1 abstract but this power they possess almost grants them nothing.

Veldanava creating the world might be good implications but idk if we can actually scale other true dragon's nature to her as she kinda makes herself very exceptional.

But what we do know is that Their Avatar having Type 2 abstract existence is very much applicable and grants them a lot of things and they can exert their powers through these vessels/avatars and all but in their Type 1 they are basically almost nothing

My suggestion really is that Their nature as Type 1 Abstracts should be clarified and noted that Type 1 isn't battle applicable either in the description or weakness as their being forced to return to being Type 1 isn't all good but has some downsides. We can't really assume things they can do as Type 1 abstract without them properly explaining it or them portraying it.

As for whether they are Type 2 concepts or not what Thunderian showed me still feels insufficient so at best I would really just say possibly Type 2

also, I would appreciate it if Thunderian actually post an entire context of a statement rather than dropping one statement as there is a contradiction to him saying they can simply regenerate but at the same time there is a scan where Veldora would forget things and will not be the same. if he is not that same then his memories and such weren't really fully regenerated
 
You guys Maniplated the scans to much , I think you guys need to show us the parts where you disagree ( The scans so we can prove it to you) because other people who came to thread after this much message is straight going to Tought our statements are same with the scans which is wrong.
 
Bruh?
Why is bunch of scans getting ignored to justify downgrade?
Also agree with Thunderian ,mods should check this thread out
 
Here is the things
  • True Dragon body will get Abstract Existence type 2
  • True Dragon Spiritual Form will get Limited Abstract Existence type 1. It's stated True Dragons would disappear without physical body though they are stated to exists purely as Spiritual Forms they can't maintain their existence in the world for long time without a physical body. They would get erased then reborn into a new person. They possibly can get their memories intact but other things would surely gets change them into different person.
  • True Dragon will get immortality type 8 thanks to being the holy will of the Nature or source of the world. Also this is CM type 2 Concepts but not combat applicable because they can't exists purely as concepts instead they are using Will has only medium to maintain their immortality and regeneration.

I probably should do a seperate thread I guess this thread got too many things mixed up. Now that I got the scans new thread will easy enough to understand by others.
 
Also, I don't want to be rude, but True Dragons are not AE Type 2.
Please, stop repeating this.
AE Type 2 can only be for their physical body .Their resurrection is just a state of reincarnation.There is no statement that says it depends on an abstraction.
EldemadeDityjon said:
Especially when you think about the fact Veldora who is also a true dragon needs physical body to exists otherwise his spiritual form will eventually gets erased just shows they are not abstract existence completely. It's just limited usage.
Click to expand...
Spiritual Life Forms don't need a physical body at all. This has already been accepted long ago. They already have a "Limited AE Type 1" based on İnformation Type 2. It is limited because although Spiritual Life Forms can leave their physical bodies behind they still use their physical bodies.
(Rimuru's AE is not limited due to having Ciel)

Now we are talking about the specific abilities they have as they are True Dragons.

In the current situation, there really shouldn't be a limit.
Because they do not have a physical body like other Spiritual Life Forms. Their Bodies are a result of those who believe in them.
 
CodeCCLL said:
Also, I don't want to be rude, but True Dragons are not AE Type 2.
Please, stop repeating this.
AE Type 2 can only be for their physical body .Their resurrection is just a state of reincarnation.There is no statement that says it depends on an abstraction.

Spiritual Life Forms don't need a physical body at all. This has already been accepted long ago. They already have a "Limited AE Type 1" based on İnformation Type 2. It is limited because although Spiritual Life Forms can leave their physical bodies behind they still use their physical bodies.
(Rimuru's AE is not limited due to having Ciel)

Now we are talking about the specific abilities they have as they are True Dragons.

In the current situation, there really shouldn't be a limit.
Because they do not have a physical body like other Spiritual Life Forms. Their Bodies are a result of those who believe in them.
Click to expand...
I explained this here better way. Can you take a look at this. Well I don't have problem with ciel abstract existence we are specifically talking about True Dragons key.
EldemadeDityjon said:
Here is the things
  • True Dragon body will get Abstract Existence type 2
  • True Dragon Spiritual Form will get Limited Abstract Existence type 1. It's stated True Dragons would disappear without physical body though they are stated to exists purely as Spiritual Forms they can't maintain their existence in the world for long time without a physical body. They would get erased then reborn into a new person. They possibly can get their memories intact but other things would surely gets change them into different person.
  • True Dragon will get immortality type 8 thanks to being the holy will of the Nature or source of the world. Also this is CM type 2 Concepts but not combat applicable because they can't exists purely as concepts instead they are using Will has only medium to maintain their immortality and regeneration.

I probably should do a seperate thread I guess this thread got too many things mixed up. Now that I got the scans new thread will easy enough to understand by others.
Click to expand...
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Even your manga scan and LN scan states True Dragons would disappear without physical body and reborn as new implies Abstract Existence should be limited and don't see how this would help in any combat.
Click to expand...
I think you completely misunderstanded. As seen in this scan after the scan I shared, Spiritual Life Forms will later transcend this restriction and can leave their physical bodies behind if they wish.
 
CodeCCLL said:
I think you completely misunderstanded. As seen in this scan after the scan I shared, Spiritual Life Forms will later transcend this restriction and can leave their physical bodies behind if they wish.
Click to expand...
I didn't saw this scan and additional the scan used in profile is completely wrong ones then. Even if I agree with Solid Abstract Existence for Spiritual life Form. CM type 2 is just immortality type 8 and non combat applicable. Or if any other scan shows what's really holy will means I open to discussion.

Can I get the volume number for this scan
 
I think it still a concept and of course a abstraction, but there are no thing that it govern

If it literally not govern something but still a abstraction and concept, i think it gonna be type 3

Because type 3 is concept that not qualify as type 1 or 2, it not limited to just a concept that govern one specific thing on general thing
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
True Dragon will get immortality type 8 thanks to being the holy will of the Nature or source of the world. Also this is CM type 2 Concepts but not combat applicable because they can't exists purely as concepts instead they are using Will has only medium to maintain their immortality and regeneration.
Click to expand...
EldemadeDityjon said:
It's still not combat applicable because it's only acting as immortality type 8.
Click to expand...
What exactly is the reason for this ?
 
Spiritual lifeforms bodies are made up of magicules hence why physical attacks don't work

The freezing magic I launched neutralized part of the flames that now burned within the barrier, creating a safe zone. The screams around me turned into cheers, but I paid it no mind as I readied my sword. A flash of light. I guess demons really are pretty resistant to melee damage. The strike felt a little strange to me as I carried it out.
Report. Melee attacks are ineffective against spiritual life-forms.
I’d best remember this feeling. Whenever I get this odd bit of feedback from my blade, that means I’m not damaging anything.
To sum it up, this Lesser Demon had what’s called a fully formed magical corpus, a form made completely of magicules.-Volume 4, Chapter 4

Same thing was said about Treyni and her sisters

Please continue to protect us in the future.」

The two aren’t holding back either as they greet me with all smiles. This is good for me as well. We began to chat about our recent conditions, and so far there don’t seem to be any major problems at hand. If anything, the magicule density in the Jura Great Forest has gotten thinner, and as a result, movement has become somewhat more inconvenient.

It’s as if the two are made from the same mold that birthed Treyni-san. They give off the usual aura of an abundance of powerful mana. But the reduction of magicule concentration does still have an effect on them. In fact, the body of this Doris in front of me has become more transparent.
「I see... that part is my miscalculation. It’s probably because of the 『Barrier』 applied on the roads. I gotta figure out a solution……」

「Ah, it’s fine. It’s not that big of a deal.」

「It’s just that us sisters are affected because we utilize 『Magic Body』 made by magicule that are susceptible to environmental changes.」

Veldora was also stated to be natural energy, phenomena

「Heed this, Hinata. He is the summation of natural energy. You can contain a frenzy storm using magic, but unlike natural phenomenon, that evil dragon has a will of his own. You can’t kill him with your sword or magic. In addition, that guy would go on a rampage if you did so, sending shockwaves and highly destructive magic to shatter the earth.」-Volume 7, Chapter 3

So you can think of their physicals bodies as energy really.

To interact with the world, a material/physical body is necessary, this is a rule that applies for everyone from angels to true dragons

As the Great Sage explained, there were three types of topological forms in the world: astral bodies, the weakest form that surrounds the soul; spiritual bodies, which can form a base upon which to build one’s internal force; and material bodies, those directly connected with this world. The human body is the combination of all three forms.
A high-level elemental is nothing more than a mass of energy that gains sentience. In other words, it uses the “heart” protected by its astral body to control its spiritual one, you could say.
This also applied to draconic races like Veldora, but in his case, he not only had a spiritual body, but he had a material one made from matter in the local area that he could freely control. High-level elementals didn’t have that kind of power, so when they left the spiritual world, their energy would disperse, and they would disappear. This is the fate that awaited any type of spirit-based life-form in the physical world, including angels and demons.
To keep their energy from fading away, they must either find a physical receptacle to form a pact with or a way to physically incarnate themselves. That, in essence, was what made the material body so important in this world.-Volume 4, Chapter 7


What really defines a spiritual life form from other things, is that i would say their "true form" if you will, is their soul, hence damage to the material body doesn't kill them

And that wasn’t all. Once the large gates fully opened, the legions of undead swarmed out from inside. Massive armies of death knights, themselves led by a set of Death Lords, came crawling out one after another. The soldiers lined up in front of the gate were immediately thrown into confusion as the battle suddenly began.

This death dragon was an A-ranked monster, a fearsome adversary that required careful advance preparation to take a whack at. Its attribute was “undead,” meaning that it could not be defeated unless its soul was directly attacked—and as proud as the Empire was of its great war power, if their foe was impervious to their attacks, they were helpless.-Volume 13, Chapter 3

Unexpectedly, another individual jumped into action right after Hinata. It was Venom. Just like Hinata, he planned to sacrifice himself in order to protect Chloe. Likely out of loyalty for Diablo’s order, Venom had been extremely focused this whole time to ensure the children’s safety. That was why he managed to make it in time.
“Guu, that hurts—!”
He seemed pretty energetic even with a gaping hole in his stomach.
As expected from demons; so long as their ‘soul’ remained intact, they would be perfectly fine even if their bodies were destroyed. -Volume 11, Chapter 4


Spiritual lifeforms think with only their soul, and can continue existing as just that

Of course, some monsters really don’t need a brain—their intellectual makeup resides in their astral or spiritual bodies instead. There are even some supernatural creatures who think with their “hearts,” so to speak, instead of any brain organ. Think of it as kind of like people who’ve gained the Complete Memory skill, such as Shion. All that does is re-create memories, of course, but it opens up the potential for thinking purely with one’s soul and astral body… And once you achieve that, it pretty much releases you from a physical life span and punches your ticket to spiritual livelihood. Once that happens, pretty much no physical attack can deal fatal damage, and if your physical body’s torn apart, you can regenerate it at will. Only certain special attacks, or weapons graded Legend or higher, would be any kind of threat.

Adalmann hadn’t quite reached that point. Wight kings like him are spiritual monsters, yes, but he’s still bound by the yoke of his physical body. His thought processes are all contained within his spiritual body so there’s no such thing as dying of old age for him—but even so, he cannot continue existing with just his soul and astral body. He was this close to becoming a spiritual life-form, but he wasn’t quite immortal yet—that kind of thing.-Volume 14, Chapter 1

There was another statement somewhere about Veldora being a perfect individual cause he could exist and think with his soul, but idk where that is, nor do i care to go through the entire series just to find it

True Dragons are the highest ranked elemental soul, which are the embodiment of the world's laws

Both True Dragons and chaos elementals could take the form of various attributes, with “flame” being an upgraded version of “fire.”

The natural family of elements consists of earth, water, fire, wind, and space—the five major attributes, as they’re called. The rule of thumb is that fire beats earth, water beats fire, wind beats water, space beats wind, and earth beats space. Picture it as fire scorching earth, water extinguishing fire, wind scattering water, space blockading wind, and earth occupying space, and there you have the conflicts in a nutshell.

In addition to these five major attributes, you also have the two opposing attributes of light and darkness—as well as “time,” which exists over all the other ones and cannot be restrained by any of them.

Elemental spirits like Ifrit are bound by these physical laws… Or to put it another way, they’re the embodiments of the laws governing the world, and apparently there are eight types of these embodiments. The light and dark attributes are somewhat special, with light being derived from angels—and darkness from demons. The angels and demons I know of so far could be called elemental spirits, technically, if you trace their roots. Someone like Diablo could tell me more if I asked, but I’m not that interested, and it’s not like I could do much with the knowledge anyway.

The key takeaway here is that there are eight kinds of elemental souls, each higher up than elemental spirits. The highest ranked among them are the True Dragons, and currently, only four are known to exist. Veldanava, the Star-King Dragon, is probably associated with the space and earth elements, judging by the name, and maybe more as well. Velzard the Ice Dragon is likely water-based; Velgrynd the Flame Dragon is almost certainly fire-based; and our own Veldora rules over not just water and wind, but space as well—a pretty big deal, despite how he acts.

So the True Dragons stand at the pinnacle of all elemental souls, and it’s safe to say that Benimaru had evolved into a similar existence. Flamesoul Ogres are spiritual life-forms, but they also have physical bodies that let them properly interact with the material world. With their infinite life span, calling people like him god-ogres wouldn’t be pushing it at all.-Volume 14, Chapter 4

In short while their souls may be things which are abstract, they need physical (energy) bodies to interact with the world.
 
Last edited:
Spiritual lifeforms bodies are made up on magicules hence why physical attacks don't work
Celestial_Pegasus said:
The freezing magic I launched neutralized part of the flames that now burned within the barrier, creating a safe zone. The screams around me turned into cheers, but I paid it no mind as I readied my sword. A flash of light. I guess demons really are pretty resistant to melee damage. The strike felt a little strange to me as I carried it out.
Report. Melee attacks are ineffective against spiritual life-forms.
I’d best remember this feeling. Whenever I get this odd bit of feedback from my blade, that means I’m not damaging anything.
To sum it up, this Lesser Demon had what’s called a fully formed magical corpus, a form made completely of magicules.-Volume 4, Chapter 4

Same thing was said about Treyni and her sisters

Please continue to protect us in the future.」

The two aren’t holding back either as they greet me with all smiles. This is good for me as well. We began to chat about our recent conditions, and so far there don’t seem to be any major problems at hand. If anything, the magicule density in the Jura Great Forest has gotten thinner, and as a result, movement has become somewhat more inconvenient.

It’s as if the two are made from the same mold that birthed Treyni-san. They give off the usual aura of an abundance of powerful mana. But the reduction of magicule concentration does still have an effect on them. In fact, the body of this Doris in front of me has become more transparent.

「I see... that part is my miscalculation. It’s probably because of the 『Barrier』 applied on the roads. I gotta figure out a solution……」

「Ah, it’s fine. It’s not that big of a deal.」

「It’s just that us sisters are affected because we utilize 『Magic Body』 made by magicule that are susceptible to environmental changes.」

Veldora was also stated to be natural energy, phenomena

「Heed this, Hinata. He is the summation of natural energy. You can contain a frenzy storm using magic, but unlike natural phenomenon, that evil dragon has a will of his own. You can’t kill him with your sword or magic. In addition, that guy would go on a rampage if you did so, sending shockwaves and highly destructive magic to shatter the earth.」-Volume 7, Chapter 3

So you can think of their physicals bodies as energy really.

To interact with the world, a material/physical body is necessary, this is a rule that applies for everyone from angels to true dragons

As the Great Sage explained, there were three types of topological forms in the world: astral bodies, the weakest form that surrounds the soul; spiritual bodies, which can form a base upon which to build one’s internal force; and material bodies, those directly connected with this world. The human body is the combination of all three forms.
A high-level elemental is nothing more than a mass of energy that gains sentience. In other words, it uses the “heart” protected by its astral body to control its spiritual one, you could say.
This also applied to draconic races like Veldora, but in his case, he not only had a spiritual body, but he had a material one made from matter in the local area that he could freely control. High-level elementals didn’t have that kind of power, so when they left the spiritual world, their energy would disperse, and they would disappear. This is the fate that awaited any type of spirit-based life-form in the physical world, including angels and demons.
To keep their energy from fading away, they must either find a physical receptacle to form a pact with or a way to physically incarnate themselves. That, in essence, was what made the material body so important in this world.-Volume 4, Chapter 7


What really defines a spiritual life form from other things, is that i would say their "true form" if you will, is their soul, hence damage to the material body doesn't kill them

And that wasn’t all. Once the large gates fully opened, the legions of undead swarmed out from inside. Massive armies of death knights, themselves led by a set of Death Lords, came crawling out one after another. The soldiers lined up in front of the gate were immediately thrown into confusion as the battle suddenly began.

This death dragon was an A-ranked monster, a fearsome adversary that required careful advance preparation to take a whack at. Its attribute was “undead,” meaning that it could not be defeated unless its soul was directly attacked—and as proud as the Empire was of its great war power, if their foe was impervious to their attacks, they were helpless.-Volume 13, Chapter 3

Unexpectedly, another individual jumped into action right after Hinata. It was Venom. Just like Hinata, he planned to sacrifice himself in order to protect Chloe. Likely out of loyalty for Diablo’s order, Venom had been extremely focused this whole time to ensure the children’s safety. That was why he managed to make it in time.
“Guu, that hurts—!”
He seemed pretty energetic even with a gaping hole in his stomach.
As expected from demons; so long as their ‘soul’ remained intact, they would be perfectly fine even if their bodies were destroyed. -Volume 11, Chapter 4


Spiritual lifeforms think with only their soul, and can continue existing as just that

Of course, some monsters really don’t need a brain—their intellectual makeup resides in their astral or spiritual bodies instead. There are even some supernatural creatures who think with their “hearts,” so to speak, instead of any brain organ. Think of it as kind of like people who’ve gained the Complete Memory skill, such as Shion. All that does is re-create memories, of course, but it opens up the potential for thinking purely with one’s soul and astral body… And once you achieve that, it pretty much releases you from a physical life span and punches your ticket to spiritual livelihood. Once that happens, pretty much no physical attack can deal fatal damage, and if your physical body’s torn apart, you can regenerate it at will. Only certain special attacks, or weapons graded Legend or higher, would be any kind of threat.

Adalmann hadn’t quite reached that point. Wight kings like him are spiritual monsters, yes, but he’s still bound by the yoke of his physical body. His thought processes are all contained within his spiritual body so there’s no such thing as dying of old age for him—but even so, he cannot continue existing with just his soul and astral body. He was this close to becoming a spiritual life-form, but he wasn’t quite immortal yet—that kind of thing.-Volume 14, Chapter 1

There was another statement somewhere about Veldora being a perfect individual cause he could exist and think with his soul, but idk where that is, nor do i care to go through the entire series just to find it

True Dragons are the highest ranked elemental soul, which are the embodiment of the world's laws

Both True Dragons and chaos elementals could take the form of various attributes, with “flame” being an upgraded version of “fire.”

The natural family of elements consists of earth, water, fire, wind, and space—the five major attributes, as they’re called. The rule of thumb is that fire beats earth, water beats fire, wind beats water, space beats wind, and earth beats space. Picture it as fire scorching earth, water extinguishing fire, wind scattering water, space blockading wind, and earth occupying space, and there you have the conflicts in a nutshell.

In addition to these five major attributes, you also have the two opposing attributes of light and darkness—as well as “time,” which exists over all the other ones and cannot be restrained by any of them.

Elemental spirits like Ifrit are bound by these physical laws… Or to put it another way, they’re the embodiments of the laws governing the world, and apparently there are eight types of these embodiments. The light and dark attributes are somewhat special, with light being derived from angels—and darkness from demons. The angels and demons I know of so far could be called elemental spirits, technically, if you trace their roots. Someone like Diablo could tell me more if I asked, but I’m not that interested, and it’s not like I could do much with the knowledge anyway.

The key takeaway here is that there are eight kinds of elemental souls, each higher up than elemental spirits. The highest ranked among them are the True Dragons, and currently, only four are known to exist. Veldanava, the Star-King Dragon, is probably associated with the space and earth elements, judging by the name, and maybe more as well. Velzard the Ice Dragon is likely water-based; Velgrynd the Flame Dragon is almost certainly fire-based; and our own Veldora rules over not just water and wind, but space as well—a pretty big deal, despite how he acts.

So the True Dragons stand at the pinnacle of all elemental souls, and it’s safe to say that Benimaru had evolved into a similar existence. Flamesoul Ogres are spiritual life-forms, but they also have physical bodies that let them properly interact with the material world. With their infinite life span, calling people like him god-ogres wouldn’t be pushing it at all.-Volume 14, Chapter 4

In short while their souls may be things which are abstract, they need physical (energy) bodies to interact with the world.
Click to expand...
Sowhat is the point of changing this ?
People like benimaru are already limited abstract existence type 1 due to having physical body
 
True Dragons should probably be limited abstracts too just like Beni, not full on abstracts, they do indeed need a physical body to interact with the world, but they have no attachment to it, as in what they truly are, are souls, so even if their physical bodies where destroyed, they would continue to exist as a soul, and can regenerate from that.

Again elemental souls being the embodiment of the laws of nature, and spiritual lifeforms even being equated with information

The proud Velgrynd decided to unleash the most powerful attack she could muster.

While looking hatefully at Rimuru who was still ignoring her, Velgrynd condensed a large amount of mana. Then she applied it throughout her own body. She applied the “support” of the Ultimate Skill ‘Charity King Raguel,’ and the power of ‘acceleration’ symbolized by her own heat affinity. If these were activated in parallel and used on herself, she would be able to forcefully increase her heat, that is, her momentum.

This made Velgrynd capable of moving at a speed several thousand times faster than the speed of sound, the fastest physical action in the world.

So then, what would happen if the target of this power was someone other than herself? The increase in momentum was not a problem for Velgrynd, who was a spiritual life form with physical resistance, but was there really anyone else who could withstand this?

The answer was no. No matter what kind of life form the other was, their body would not be able to endure a forced continuous acceleration. The same was true for spiritual life forms, where even information was converted into energy, eventually leading to thermal decay. And that was exactly what Velgrynd meant when she said:-Volume 15, Chapter 2
Click to expand...
 
Celestial_Pegasus said:
True Dragons should probably be limited abstracts too just like Beni, not full on abstracts, they do indeed need a physical body to interact with the world, but they have no attachment to it, as what they true are, is in their souls, so even if their physical bodies where destroyed, they would continue to exist as a soul, and can regenerate from that.

Again elemental souls being the embodiment of the laws of nature, and spiritual lifeforms even being equated with information
Click to expand...
Agree with that
 
that lines up with what I believe

now in regards to whether they are Type 2 concepts as abstract or not do you have any input for it?
personally, I'd allow it as "possibly" due to how vague it is but the best-supporting evidence only points to Type 3
 
Now that Celestial Pegasus brought the scans here.

My opinion :

Considering what we've discussed so far, True Dragons should stay Type 2 Concept.

True Dragons only exist by their will.
But they still need to have a physical/energy body to interact with the physical/material world.

Therefore, True Dragons must have "Limited Abstract Existence Type 1".
 
Honestly when you look at it, previous CRTS have established that everything in the series is made up of information, and then you look at what i posted above; they are the embodiment of the laws of the world, and are information, i think it makes sense that spiritual lifeforms like true dragons are the embodiment of something, that being information, which makes up everything in existence.

Type 2 is probably fine.
 
Celestial_Pegasus said:
Honestly when you look at it, previous CRTS have established that everything in the series is made up of information, and then you look at what i posted above; they are the embodiment of the laws of the world, and are information, i think it makes sense that spiritual lifeforms like true dragons are the embodiment of something, that being information, which makes up everything in existence.

Type 2 is probably fine.
Click to expand...
Embodiments of Laws is something regarding immortality though not regarding Existence as far as the scans i saw. Though I agree with you regarding AE type 1 for Spiritual life Form for lacking physical body. But CM type 2 abstraction needs some deep look.
 
Celestial_Pegasus said:
Honestly when you look at it, previous CRTS have established that everything in the series is made up of information, and then you look at what i posted above; they are the embodiment of the laws of the world, and are information, i think it makes sense that spiritual lifeforms like true dragons are the embodiment of something, that being information, which makes up everything in existence.

Type 2 is probably fine.
Click to expand...
What do you think about Type 2 Concept? Actually, this is the main issue.
 
@EldemadeDityjon What immortality though? I don't remember anything saying because they are embodiment of the worlds laws, they are immortal?

Of course they are immortal, because their true existence is their soul, they no attachment to their bodies, hence why they don't age, and can regenerate, but idk what that has to do with them being literally stated to be information, which we know in Slime makes up all existence.
 
Celestial_Pegasus said:
@EldemadeDityjon What immortality though? I don't remember anything saying because they are embodiment of the worlds laws, they are immortal?
Click to expand...
Immortality type 4 or 8 idk.but True Dragons are Immortal as long as their will exists.
Celestial_Pegasus said:
Of course they are immortal, because their true existence is their soul, they no attachment to their bodies, hence why they don't age, and can regenerate, but idk what that has to do with them being literally stated to be information, which we know in Slime makes up all existence.
Click to expand...
Veldora states be is immortal because of the will.

 
Celestial_Pegasus said:
Honestly when you look at it, previous CRTS have established that everything in the series is made up of information, and then you look at what i posted above; they are the embodiment of the laws of the world, and are information, i think it makes sense that spiritual lifeforms like true dragons are the embodiment of something, that being information, which makes up everything in existence.

Type 2 is probably fine.
Click to expand...
I think it’s more limited abstract existence type 1 due to their soul still being completely abstract due to being made of information particles.

their opponent can still interact with there body as long they have non physical interaction (because there physical body is made of magicules)

and their soul are fully abstract type 1 information type 2.
 
ashen said:
I think it’s more limited abstract existence type 1 due to their soul still being completely abstract due to being made of information particles.

their opponent can still interact with there body as long they have non physical interaction (because there physical body is made of magicules)

and their soul are fully abstract type 1 information type 2.
Click to expand...
That's why its limited
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

EldemadeDityjon
  • Locked
TenSura LN Major Misleading Revision - Part 1
6 7 8
Replies
285
Views
15K
Dog3352
Dog3352
Dog3352
  • Locked
Updating Source to CM type 1
Replies
9
Views
2K
EldemadeDityjon
EldemadeDityjon
Mizuki67
  • Locked
Tensura Downgrade (an obvious one)
Replies
30
Views
5K
Dark_Soul20189
Dark_Soul20189
Astral_Trinity439
  • Locked
TenSura LN Major Revision - Slime-Verse Salvation - Tier 1 Upgrade
4 5 6
Replies
238
Views
41K
Mizuki67
Mizuki67
Astral_Trinity439
  • Locked
TenSura Revision [LN]
2
Replies
65
Views
10K
Astral_Trinity439
Astral_Trinity439
Back
Top