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Possible Downgrade for LN Rimuru CM type 2.

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EldemadeDityjon

EldemadeDityjon

He/Him
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LN Rimuru profile states
Click to expand...

But here we don't see anything regarding any concepts governing something else. This should be just abstract existence not CM type 2.

There is no statement or feats which shows True Dragons existence governs something. The single statement which states Source of the world is just vague and has no context. If True Dragons existence should get CM type 2 then need proof for governing something.

Also abstract existence should be limited that they can't exists as abstraction for longer time. They would eventually gets erased without physical body.

If a "True Dragon" dies.

I am open to rewriting the explanation if additional information is provided otherwise this needs to go.
 
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CM type 2? From the beginning there was no CM type 2 at Tensura LN. What there is is the Type 2 Concept

Type 2 Concept and CM type 2 are different. Where CM type 2 is the ability to manipulate Type 2 Concept. While Type 2 Concept is an abstraction of the concept itself.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
There is no statement or feats which shows True Dragons existence governs something. The single statement which states Source of the world is just vague and has no context. If True Dragons existence should get CM type 2 then need proof for governing something.
Click to expand...
They are the Holy Will Of Nature

Of course they govern the Nature
 
Thunderian said:
CM type 2? From the beginning there was no CM type 2 at Tensura LN. What there is is the Type 2 Concept

Type 2 Concept and CM type 2 are different. Where CM type 2 is the ability to manipulate Type 2 Concept. While Type 2 Concept is an abstraction of the concept itself.
Click to expand...
A concept should govern something else. Otherwise it's not a concept. If True Dragons doesn't govern somethings then they are not qualified to be called as a Concept.

For example does killing TD will also affect the world / reality?
 
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Thunderian said:
True Dragons have never really died in the first place. They are the Will itself and will continue to exist as long as the Will exists.

Even if they 'died' they weren't really dead.

Also, you better read the CRT, because it's all there.
Click to expand...
The thing is for a thing to be considered as concept it should govern something. I read the CRT and couldn't find anything except source of the world with no context.
Georredannea15 said:
I mean, this abstraction is a conceptual abstraction. At least it seems that way based on context.
Click to expand...
It's abstraction based on the fact this line.
They exist only as will, and have no attachment with their bodies,[1] as that is the result of the faith of those who live around them)
Click to expand...
First line has no context. It's just states source of the world. It need explanation to claim it as CM type 2.
If it's really Source of the world then affecting true dragon should affect the reality which it governs.
 
Thunderian said:
True Dragons have never really died in the first place. They are the Will itself and will continue to exist as long as the Will exists.

Even if they 'died' they weren't really dead.
Click to expand...
This is the perfect description for AE type 2 because they gain immortality as benefit for this abstraction.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
It's abstraction based on the fact this line.

First line has no context. It's just states source of the world. It need explanation to claim it as CM type 2.
If it's really Source of the world then affecting true dragon should affect the reality which it governs.
Click to expand...
Ohhh I see, you mean there is no proof that these are Type 2 concepts. If that is the case and there is no evidence for Type 2 Concepts, yes I agree.
 
ImmortalDread said:
This is the perfect description for AE type 2 because they gain immortality as benefit for this abstraction.
Click to expand...
Nope, there were statements in the old thread that someone can be AE1 , AE2 in the same time.
Thunderian said:
True Dragons have never really died in the first place. They are the Will itself and will continue to exist as long as the Will exists.
Click to expand...
So true dragons are Will which is the abstraction it self and will continue to exist as long as their will still exist.

So their Will is AE1 and if they are their own will then they are AE1 too and they depend on their own will too which is AE2 ( Their physical body ) , ( They dont have any attachment to their physical body )
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Can I see the scan. So killing TD will affect nature ?
Click to expand...
If a "True Dragon" dies.

White Ice Dragon, Storm Dragon, Scorch Dragon
In addition to their adjectives, True Dragons are also called "Natural Phenomena."

I am thinking,
Type 2 Concept explained well in the thread it was accepted.

Also, if I remember correctly, there may be supporting statements that Veldora manages the concept of nature in the first chapters.
 
CodeCCLL said:
If a "True Dragon" dies.

White Ice Dragon, Storm Dragon, Scorch Dragon
In addition to their adjectives, True Dragons are also called "Natural Phenomena."

I am thinking,
Type 2 Concept explained well in the thread it was accepted

Also, if I remember correctly, there may be supporting statements that Veldora manages the concept of nature in the first chapters.
Click to expand...
But here is the problem comes. Source of the world statement is very vague with little no context and CM type 2 accepted thread had no additional scans.

If concepts of circles governs all circles in a reality and destroying the concept of circles will destroy the all circles which was governs by it. Or you can use alternation not just destruction.

The main problem is need some feat or statement for destroying or altering the true dragon would also affect the reality they govens. Them being called as different names or natural phenomenon doesn't grant them CM type 2 abstraction.

From what I see this is just Abstract Existence not CM type 2.
 
I think They mean that the level of abstraction rimuru has is a type 2 concept and not that he can manipulate type 2 concept.

Hence it is listed within Abstract existence and not as separate ability.

so he doesn't have CM type 2
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
I think They mean that the level of abstraction rimuru has is a type 2 concept and not that he can manipulate type 2 concept.

Hence it is listed within Abstract existence and not as separate ability.

so he doesn't have CM type 2
Click to expand...
Thunderian said:
CM type 2? From the beginning there was no CM type 2 at Tensura LN. What there is is the Type 2 Concept

Type 2 Concept and CM type 2 are different. Where CM type 2 is the ability to manipulate Type 2 Concept. While Type 2 Concept is an abstraction of the concept itself.
Click to expand...
I already said that
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
I think They mean that the level of abstraction rimuru has is a type 2 concept and not that he can manipulate type 2 concept.

Hence it is listed within Abstract existence and not as separate ability.

so he doesn't have CM type 2
Click to expand...
I can see that but I don't see why it's CM type 2 abstraction. I do agree they are abstract existence though. But not as a CM type 2 abstraction.
 
ImmortalDread said:
This is the perfect description for AE type 2 because they gain immortality as benefit for this abstraction.
Click to expand...
True Dragons certainly have AE Type 1 in many ways. AE Type 2 can only be for Physical Bodies.

OP's purpose is to question True Dragons being a Type 2 Concept.

It is also stated that they are specially reincarnated, and when they are reincarnated, they are born with a completely different personality.
 
as AE is a state of being the level of powers of the concept they embody or they exist as doesn't matter
so tbh saying it is AE as type 1, 2 ,3 concept is pointless as anyone who can touch a concept will still touch you as type 1 concept because your abstraction is still a concept
 
CodeCCLL said:
True Dragons certainly have AE Type 1 in many ways. AE Type 2 can only be for Physical Bodies.

OP's purpose is to question True Dragons being a Type 2 Concept.

It is also stated that they are specially reincarnated, and when they are reincarnated, they are born with a completely different personality.
Click to expand...
Yeah I don't have any problem with AE type 1. Profile scan is clear cut. Only thing I am questioning here is CM type 2 abstraction.
 
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