Pokemon Upgrades?

[ThePerpetual]

Not really an expert on the series, but this video stood about to me.

More specifically, it showcased Pikachu, Charizard, and Lugia's abilities to keep pace with and match the power of the Three Legendary Birds. Anyone know what's up with this? Is this a legitimate upgrade for anyone?

 

[Reppuzan]

I'm pretty sure we don't scale based on legendaries since power levels get extremely wonky in the anime.

For example, Ash's Pikachu managed to stun Arceus of all people when backed up by Pichus and also threw a Dragonite, yet gets his rear handed to him by regular Gym Leaders.

The anime also blatantly ignores the rules set in the games at times and is prone to Deus Ex Machina (i.e. the infamous AIM FOR THE HORN! bit)

 

[Minstry_of_pain]

For lugia it makes since for ashes zard also makes since he's been shown to match legendary trios often the entire movies also backs this up pretty well. Ashes pikachu not so much to inconstant with other showings and he fluctuates to much to get scaled to legendary pokemon even of its just the trios. So ya I'm down for the upgrade for lugia and charizard.

 

[Alakabamm]

This wouldn't be an upgrade for lugia. In fact, Lugia is 10x the birds individually or more by feats. Charizard is really the only one up for debate, but it wasn't an extended fight so its iffy.

 

[ThePerpetual]

Ah, didn't see that.

Wait, why does Pikachu and Arceus being victims of PIS make the former unable to scale to a feat way lower than Arceus-tier? I thought he competed with stuff like this more than once?

 

[Reppuzan]

Because his power seems to reset every season.

In one season, he's going toe to toe with Pokemon like Metagross and defeated Regiice, a blatant Legendary whose powers are required to awaken Regigigas, a Pokemon who can drag continents around.

The next season he's struggling against baby Pokemon like Budew.

He also regularly causes massive explosions that send people flying miles away.

But can't seem to smash open a steel door or thin metal bars for the life of him.

 

[Alakabamm]

Yea, Pikachu is afflicted by extreme variation.

Charizard, on the other hand, is treated as a top-rank among Ash's team and has been since he trained in the valley. But scaling is still iffy, just because legendaries are iffy.

 

[Reppuzan]

Charizard has his moments too.

For example, aside from fighting Articuno, he also tangled with the 7-C Dragonite and was still fairly evenly matched... despite the massive power difference between Large Mountain and Town level. and a speed gap of High Hypersonic (Charizard) vs Supersonic (Dragonite).

Charizard also got knocked out by Blaziken, who has no real destruction feats aside from jumping to the top of a thirty story building in a single leap in his Pokedex entry.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

To b fair, At least Blaziken is supposed to be strong, due to starter status.

 

[Reppuzan]

I suppose, but this is in spite of the fact that Charizard has:

A Flight Advantage.

A Typing Advantage.

Blatantly superior AoE.

Took on Articuno before AND after this episode.

Don't get me wrong, I love Blaziken (Ruby was my first Pokemon game that wasn't borrowed from someone else), but logically everything goes to the pits when you think about it.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, if it helps, here are our power-scaling rules from the Pokémo page:

"The Pokemon franchise is all over the place when it comes to official power levels, continuities, and who can beat who. It thrives on extreme inconsistencies, Plot Induced Stupidity, and Game Mechanics.

Given how extremely unreliable the series seems to be and that we would run the risk of rating lots of unwarranted characters as 2-C based on the Pokédex, base stats, and story events, we have decided that it is better to strictly go by the characters individual feats and by power-scaling if another character is shown to match or exceed the power level displayed by another character within the same story.

The Pokédex descriptions are only allowed if they are very specific (for example, if it states that a Pokemon can destroy a mountain, but does not specify the size or the number of required attacks to do so, that is not very useful) and do not contradict their displayed levels.

Otherwise the statistics should be placed at "Unknown" ratings, similarly to how we handle the Power-scaling Rules for Marvel and DC Comics."

 

[LordAizenSama]

I do wonder if it would just be easier to get rid of a lot of the non legendary pokemon profiles. In my opinion it's nigh impossible to get accurate stats when the continuities cross games,games with separate continuities (like pokemon mystery dungeon), the manga and the anime.

I don't think we even have a agreeable method to sort through it, because if we have a stat for a pokemon feat in the manga, we can't scale to it pokemon in the anime, and it just alround becomes a disaster. we would also likely need keys for each continuity, which is really just too much work, to be blunt.

I'm pretty sure we still have whole pokemon profiles full of unknown stats since the last time we went through them, and I doubt it's changing anytime soon.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that deleting all of the Pokemon profiles with unknown statistics is probably a good idea.

 

[KuuIchigo]

Keep legendaries and notable Pokemons? And have a rule to only allow people to create Pokemon profiles if they have agreeable stats or can be power-scaled.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I'm for that. What would be the point of keeping profiles with unknown stats if we can't scale them at to like....well anything? In this case for the Pokemon verse, it seems that scaling them is a nigh impossible job to do based on what Aizen said on it.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree. Do you wish to go through the profiles Aizen?

 

[LordAizenSama]

@Kuu Yeah pretty much,but while they can technically be powerscaled for one series we can't cross scale them to different continuities, hence we would need keys for each continuity and info on each one. It makes me sigh just thinking about it.

@Cross yeah, it's not the first time I've sat down and looked at the pokemon profiles thinking about this, I cannot even fathom a reasonable way to make them work..

 

[KuuIchigo]

Alright. Man, Pokemon is a headache.

 

[ThePerpetual]

Again, I'm not a Pokemon expert, so I can't really lend an informed opinion on the matter. I'll trust your judgment here.

 

[LordAizenSama]

@Ant I will do so, just not right now. I'll do so shortly if thats ok

 

[Antvasima]

That is fine, of course. Thank you for the help.

 

[KuuIchigo]

Do you want me to help?

 

[Antvasima]

It is probably best if Aizen decides that, and if he accepts, that he gives you instructions first.

 

[KuuIchigo]

Alright.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Well the Bird Trio's stats are from the games which according to our rules make Pikachu and Charizard impossible to scale. Further, I don't recall them doing anything impressive at that point either so I can't say they were depicted at full power. As for the Unknown Pokemon stats, I was going to wait until I revised them in June after the exams before bringing up the idea of deleting them.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Well i'm glad I deleted them then, because I would never wish having to fix them profiles on anyone..

seriously though this was bound to happen.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Lol.

I suppose this is for the best...

After seeing Fasial's post: The truth. 'Tis hurts.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Pokemon profiles are awful mess, the franchise has made it abundantly clear that they don't care for logic, at all (Ash Ketchum is officialy 10 years old, I know). It would be waste of time to evaluate stats for unknown profiles for such a series. So I strongly agree with deletion of profiles with unknown ratings

 

[Nibbler3100]

The only one I disagree with the deletion is Greninja becuase he is a very big character currently in the anime especially his new form Ash-Greninja stated to be a way to get stronger without mega evolving more like fusion lol inb4 pokemon copies digimon

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

inb4 pokemon copies digimon

It already has, since X and Y :3

Anyway, popularity doesn't change the fact on whether or not he has any feats. You'll need to find some if you wish to remake the profile.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

Hop thinks this needs people to make a minor forum section to introduce the characters.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Do you mean a Pokemon Discussion thread? I was thinking about it but I wasn't sure it was popular enough here.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Dude, To Aru is popular enough. Pokemon could easily get one.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Do you mean a Pokemon Discussion thread? I was thinking about it but I wasn't sure it was popular enough here.

I don't think we're going to see much activity either. Very few teenagers and young adults watch pokemon anime. The game feats are already here but very few are interested in the anime for obvious reasons.

 

[KuuIchigo]

I don't know. Pokemon has soo much PIS and stuff that it would get chaotic. The stats would go all over the place. And I believe this thread should be closed since it has been concluded.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

I don't know. Pokemon has soo much PIS and stuff that it would get chaotic. The stats would go all over the place.

I remember pikachu shocking Geodue. I am sorry we have to index such a verse


Pikachu Vs Geodude

Facepalm

 

[Antvasima]

I will close this thread then.