Pokémon Standards Part 2

[FinePoint]

Why just above average? Have you seen a Pokemon fight before? They should be gifted

Above Average: Characters that show greater cognitive ability than the norm, but do not particularly stand out in any intellectual or academic fields.

Gifted: Character that demonstrate high reasoning ability, can master concepts with few repetitions, and display high performance capability in intellectual, creative, or specific academic fields.

XXXKINGXX69 Does make a good point. At least for the third stages, if they're competing with pokémon that have mastered all martial arts, gifted at least seems more reasonable.

So how about Above Average for 1st/2nd stage, and Gifted for 3rd stage?

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Above Average: Characters that show greater cognitive ability than the norm, but do not particularly stand out in any intellectual or academic fields.

Gifted: Character that demonstrate high reasoning ability, can master concepts with few repetitions, and display high performance capability in intellectual, creative, or specific academic fields.

XXXKINGXX69 Does make a good point. At least for the third stages, if they're competing with pokémon that have mastered all martial arts, gifted at least seems more reasonable.

So how about Above Average for 1st/2nd stage, and Gifted for 3rd stage?

No I mean gifted in fighting even for first stage. You can literally just pick a random episode and see proof of this

You need some kind of skill to shoot out energy blasts at people who can move at MHS speed and be agile like that. I can find some example scans to use, for wild Pokemon

 

[DaReaperMan]

...

Pal. What if those energy beams are moving faster then the Pokémon themselves? Shot by MHS Pokémon in the first place?

 

[Imaginym]

It would be good to get examples, if we're arguing most Pokemon are highly skilled, even wild. Shooting energy blasts doesn't seem that great a sign of intelligence if it's something you could naturally do from early on in your life, I'd assume.

& it's not like all Pokemon do martial arts.

 

[GyroNutz]

What about pokemon with Sniper as an ability.

Sniper just enhances the power of said pressure point attacks. It'd likely be limited Damage Boost.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

I think every Pokemon should get pressure points, its not like only using them occasionally makes it not an ability

Any other proposals, and is it ok to add any changes?

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

What our staff has accepted here can probably be applied.

Or should we wait a bit for the other members that I sent a notification to?

 

[Arceus0x]

Idk about gifted... Actually gifted for final evos should be fine. I just had a good nap and realized i forgot about that.

While i do agree that not every mon should be gifted, final evos should. The fact that they don't get completely anihilated whilst fighting the likes of Alakazam, Metagross and Machamp means that they should have enough combat experience to survive against them and not have them jump circles around them.

So the final proposal is

Below average (capable of conversation and solving minor puzzles), above average in combat as [pre-evolutions] (pokemon are hard wired for battle and can handle a fight even right after birth. They fight each other constantly, thus fighting against the likes of Machop), Gifted as [final-evo] (more skilled than their pre-evolutions and can handle themselves against other final evolutions such as Machamp and Alakazam)

 

[FinePoint]

Thank you for helping out.

What our staff has accepted here can probably be applied.

Or should we wait a bit for the other members that I sent a notification to?

I updated the sandbox with the new intelligence description, which I believe to be accurate.

The only thing left with some uncertainty still is Resistance to Absolute Zero for Ice Types.
Does that seem okay to apply? I know immunity was obviously rejected, but the arguments left seemed to be in favor of simple resistance.

 

[Arceus0x]

stamina needs its own thread so remove it for now. We need to gather feats.
You see, there's an actual system for stamina now. It's still hot garbage but it's better than nothing.

 

[FinePoint]

stamina needs its own thread so remove it for now. We need to gather feats.
You see, there's an actual system for stamina now. It's still hot garbage but it's better than nothing.

I was under the impression that the staff decided the actual terms used for stamina were subjective and meaningless, which is why I included just a description.

Also, shouldn't pokémon with only 2 evolutions start in the 2nd stage, since pokémon with no evolution do?
Right now we have Dunsparce at 2nd, and growlithe at 1st, but jumping to 3rd on evolution.

 

[GyroNutz]

Also, shouldn't pokémon with only 2 evolutions start in the 2nd stage, since pokémon with no evolution do?
Right now we have Dunsparce at 2nd, and growlithe at 1st, but jumping to 3rd on evolution.

Case by case, Lapras doesn't evolve but is generally treated as a strong Pokemon, so it's considered as 3rd stage tier.

 

[FinePoint]

Case by case, Lapras doesn't evolve but is generally treated as a strong Pokemon, so it's considered as 3rd stage tier.

That works, I suppose.

Anyways, is there anything else that must be discussed right now?
Simple resistance to AZ seems relatively uncontested, and the intelligence rating seems alright as well.

I know certain issues need a separate thread to collect data, such as the Stamina and Range thread.

 

[GyroNutz]

Don't think so

 

[FinePoint]

Thank you for helping out.

What our staff has accepted here can probably be applied.

Or should we wait a bit for the other members that I sent a notification to?

It seems like we have enough to make the page at least.
Which I've done here.

It needs to be linked to on the Editing Rules as well as somewhere on the verse page.
I've never made a page before, so let me know if I messed something up.

 

[Antvasima]

You need to write it in entirely formal/neutral/academic language. Addressing the readers directly, or saying "I Finepoint" are big no-nos, for example.

What else have our staff accepted to apply here? Are you fine with resistance to absolute zero, GyroNutz?

 

[GyroNutz]

Are you fine with resistance to absolute zero, GyroNutz?

Yeah

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. That can probably be applied then.

 

[FinePoint]

You need to write it in entirely formal/neutral/academic language. Addressing the readers directly, or saying "I Finepoint" are big no-nos, for example.

Sure, I can change that. Is that your only complaint? Is it improper in other places?

 

[XXKINGXX69]

I added scans for glare and hypnosis and fixed typos

 

[FinePoint]

I added scans for glare and hypnosis and fixed typos

I know autocorrect will yell at you for it, but I'm not sure if you should capitalize Pokémon if you're referring to "a pokémon." Not 100% though.

Scans are nice though.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

I know autocorrect will yell at you for it, but I'm not sure if you should capitalize Pokémon if you're referring to "a pokémon." Not 100% though.

Scans are nice though.

They do that in the Pokemon series all the time. Have you ever seen them spell it with a lowercase p?

 

[FinePoint]

They do that in the Pokemon series all the time. Have you ever seen them spell it with a lowercase p?

I never paid that much attention to the capitalization lol.
If they do, then of course it's fine.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

I suggest that the profile also stay opened since Pokemon is going to have a decent number of CRTs soon from Legends Arceus. And I assume this thread can be closed now? I'll talk about Pokemon hax potency in a CRT later today

 

[FinePoint]

I suggest that the profile also stay opened since Pokemon is going to have a decent number of CRTs soon from Legends Arceus. And I assume this thread can be closed now? I'll talk about Pokemon hax potency in a CRT later today

I'm still waiting on Ant to confirm everything is okay.

 

[Antvasima]

Sure, I can change that. Is that your only complaint? Is it improper in other places?

I do not know. I did not have the time to read through the page indepth. I just gave you and others something to check for and correct that I noticed when skimming through it.

I would appreciate input from other staff members here.

 

[FinePoint]

I do not know. I did not have the time to read through the page indepth. I just gave you and others something to check for and correct that I noticed when skimming through it.

I would appreciate input from other staff members here.

Yeah

Could you please help with this Gyro?
Sorry that you're basically carrying these threads on the staff front.

 

[Antvasima]

@Starter_Pack @SamanPatou @The_real_cal_howard @Saikou_The_Lewd_King

We would still appreciate some help with this, as it is an important revisions thread.

 

[GyroNutz]

Could you please help with this Gyro?
Sorry that you're basically carrying these threads on the staff front.

Would it be alright if I edit your sandbox directly? Probably more efficient that way

 

[FinePoint]

Would it be alright if I edit your sandbox directly? Probably more efficient that way

Well, the page is posted. You could just edit that.
I don't care at all. I've got all the information down, but it's not my magnum opus or anything.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out Gyro. You are awesome.

 

[GyroNutz]

I've edited the page. I also included a couple of notes based on previous stuff that's been brought up, such as not including TM and Tutor moves as to my knowledge the last thread that tried to implement these never got anywhere, and being careful when using TCG exclusive moves, as they can be heavily affected by "game mechanics".

I'm also going to push for the "complicated types" to be looked at again. We shouldn't be trying to map each type to an individual ability - a Pokemon that resists Psychic will resist every Psychic move, many of which are based around Telekinesis. The only issue would be consistency - as said before, Pokemon that resist the Normal type won't resist Air Manipulation despite Razor Wind being a Normal type move (which even then is explicitly stated to be learned primarily by Flying type Pokemon) as most moves based around Air Manipulation are Flying type.

For a somewhat related argument, every Flying move can be turned into the Air Manip-based move Max Airstream. Every Ghost move can be turned into the Ectoplasm-based move Max Phantasm. Every Steel type move can be turned into the Metal Manip-based move Max Steelspike.

 

[FinePoint]

I've edited the page. I also included a couple of notes based on previous stuff that's been brought up, such as not including TM and Tutor moves as to my knowledge the last thread that tried to implement these never got anywhere, and being careful when using TCG exclusive moves, as they can be heavily affected by "game mechanics".

Thank you. I notice some redundancy now around the Sheer Cold section, and one of the notes is still formatted the old way. Not sure if you wanted to change those too.

I'm also going to push for the "complicated types" to be looked at again. We shouldn't be trying to map each type to an individual ability - a Pokemon that resists Psychic will resist every Psychic move, many of which are based around Telekinesis. The only issue would be consistency - as said before, Pokemon that resist the Normal type won't resist Air Manipulation despite Razor Wind being a Normal type move (which even then is explicitly stated to be learned primarily by Flying type Pokemon) as most moves based around Air Manipulation are Flying type.

For a somewhat related argument, every Flying move can be turned into the Air Manip-based move Max Airstream. Every Ghost move can be turned into the Ectoplasm-based move Max Phantasm. Every Steel type move can be turned into the Metal Manip-based move Max Steelspike.

I'm not sure to what extent the Max Moves are relevant, but I suppose it's worth looking at some of the types again.
It could be more practical to simply ignore the single example of telekinesis being contradicted by Hex, and include Telekinesis under Psychic Type.

 

[Lou_change]

What about z moves

 

[FinePoint]

What about z moves

What about Z moves?

 

[Lou_change]

Wouldn't they also be highly accurate on the nature of type given they are made of type energy if I remember correctly being able to act like the plates for arceus

 

[Antvasima]

I've edited the page. I also included a couple of notes based on previous stuff that's been brought up, such as not including TM and Tutor moves as to my knowledge the last thread that tried to implement these never got anywhere, and being careful when using TCG exclusive moves, as they can be heavily affected by "game mechanics".

I'm also going to push for the "complicated types" to be looked at again. We shouldn't be trying to map each type to an individual ability - a Pokemon that resists Psychic will resist every Psychic move, many of which are based around Telekinesis. The only issue would be consistency - as said before, Pokemon that resist the Normal type won't resist Air Manipulation despite Razor Wind being a Normal type move (which even then is explicitly stated to be learned primarily by Flying type Pokemon) as most moves based around Air Manipulation are Flying type.

For a somewhat related argument, every Flying move can be turned into the Air Manip-based move Max Airstream. Every Ghost move can be turned into the Ectoplasm-based move Max Phantasm. Every Steel type move can be turned into the Metal Manip-based move Max Steelspike.

Thanks again for helping out.

 

[FinePoint]

Wouldn't they also be highly accurate on the nature of type given they are made of type energy if I remember correctly being able to act like the plates for arceus

Z-Crystals do change Arceus's type, but they're actually from Necrozma.

However, Z-Moves ultimately draw power from Arceus's plates, just like any move.

Not sure if that means anything, though. The Flying Type move is just a physical divebomb.

Edit: It seems that the Sparkling Stones (the rings) are actually what come from Necrozma. Not sure about Z-Crystals then.

 

[Lou_change]

I suppose I was thinking it made the same amount of sense as using max moves.

 

[FinePoint]

Well, they are sort of the same premise. Moves enhanced by legendaries.
Z-Moves are moves modified in some way by Necrozma.
Max Moves are moves modified in some way by Eternatus.
All of them ultimately still draw from the plates.

It just doesn't seem more relevant than normal moves to me.