Pokemon God Revision- Yes its Arceus (And minor stuff for Unown)

[Sniper670]

It's very easy to accuse someone of ignoring evidence when they pointed out why your provided statements doesn't apply or is wrong. Anyways, I will return with the translation from the official thread.

Anyway, you will be ignored

 

[Sniper670]

Whoever is editing the profiles is making a mistake.

Please, Arceus stuff should not be placed in the True Form Key. You only place Original Spirit stuff in that key

Anyway, I have an exam so when I get back I'll try to get the hang of it and edit it, since my knowledge about this is limited

If anyone wants to help, please follow the directions I gave above

Thanks

 

[GyroNutz]

Arceus already has access to all pokemon moves. That is the extent of which the statements about the plates can cover.

I acknowledged this in my post.

Top creators in the pokemon franchise describe Arceus as being an Alpha pokemon and then talk about him changing his type. There's no other direct mention of Arceus being able to do everything in the verse.

Being pedantic, but I wouldn't call Pokemon manga and TCG illustrators "top creators" - that would be people heavily involved with the games. Still, this doesn't contradict Arceus' abilities, it just explains one facet of his powers.

Also this argument, that Arceus should be able to do everything other pokemon can do because they all use the same essence doesn't make sense. By this logic, Emboar should be able to use skyuppercut because Blaziken a fire-fighting type can. They both have access to the same essence/energy right?

They are both Fire and Fighting type, which comes from the plates. That's the source. What they do with that power is their capability, moreso based on their biology and skillset. Arceus' plates (and by extension Arceus himself) are responsible for the Pokemon's biology and capability, which is how Arceus would be able to use Sky Uppercut when Emboar cannot.

It was already decided in previous thread that more information and proof is needed to claim that Arceus gets the powers of pokemon that doesn't come from their moves.

Anyway, what did Gyro and Everything12 decide here?

I suppose we could use the opinions of a few more knowledgeable and/or staff members? If someone lets me know who was active in the last thread this was discussed I can tag them.

 

[Antvasima]

Btw i'm finding it difficult to apply the changes so uhh.....i'm waiting for Arceus0x or any help?

@Arceus0x

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose we could use the opinions of a few more knowledgeable and/or staff members? If someone lets me know who was active in the last thread this was discussed I can tag them.

That is probably a good idea.

Thank you for helping out.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Arceus' plates (and by extension Arceus himself) are responsible for the Pokemon's biology and capability

Where is the evidence for this statement?

Especially when humans have made their own pokemon, and pokemon form from man made objects, and conditions.

 

[Sniper670]

Where is the evidence for this statement?

Especially when humans have made their own pokemon, and pokemon form from man made objects, and conditions.

It's all connected to the source. Arceus's plates have the Essence of ALL creation. Honestly you need to be ignored at this point. Don't you know what ESSENCE means? Let me spell it out to you

Essence is the property or set of properties that make an entity or object what it fundamentally is, and without it, ceases to exist as that entity or object. Essence is more basic and primary than the body, soul, and mind. The physical form of an entity or object is just a projection of it's essence.

Plus, the powers of the plates are bestowed upon Pokémon who are born.

 

[Sniper670]

Especially when humans have made their own pokemon, and pokemon form from man made objects, and conditions.

Humans can use psychic powers. Who has the essence of psychic energy? Arceus

Man made Pokémon is born of Poison, or Programming Code


Essense of Poison as well as the psychic type of that programming code is found within God's fragments

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Humans can use psychic powers. Who has the essence of psychic energy? Arceus

Man made Pokémon is born of Poison, or Programming Code


Essense of Poison as well as the psychic type of that programming code is found within God's fragments

And where is your evidence that programming code comes from the psychic plate? You're just making everything up.

 

[Sniper670]

And where is your evidence that programming code comes from the psychic plate? You're just making everything up.

My bad, Porygon is Normal Type.

And guess who has the Essence of Normalcy, GOD

A stone tablet imbued with the essence of normalcy. When used on a certain Pokémon, it allows that Pokémon to gain the power of the Normal type

 

[Sniper670]

Who do you think Arceus is anyway?

 

[StekFence]

And guess who has the Essence of Normalcy, GOD

This is the funniest sentence

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

You two should stop and wait for staff evaluation.

 

[TheKingStrategist13]

If there's one thing I've learned today: Arceus threads are a breeding ground for toxicity.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose we could use the opinions of a few more knowledgeable and/or staff members? If someone lets me know who was active in the last thread this was discussed I can tag them.

Is somebody here willing to provide Gyro with this information please?

 

[Sniper670]

Is somebody here willing to provide Gyro with this information please?

@DontTalkDT , @Moritzva , @Agnaa


Moritzva and Agnaa are unavailable atm

I'll recommend those who participated in the creator gods thread.

Also try getting @Elizhaa too.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I don't want to make another back and forth. So this will be my final statement and analysis for this thread.

I agreed with most stuff in the OP. Sniper should know which ones.

I disagree with Arceus getting the powers of all pokemon, humans, and nonpokemon outside of pokemon moves. Arceus should only get the powers he has been shown to have. He currently has access to all pokemon moves.

My reasoning for this disagreement for this addition is based on the fact that the only piece of evidence that supports this is one singular line of dialogue, from the engraving of the Meadow Plate.

The official english for the engraving is ""The powers of Plates are shared among Pokémon."
And our Vsbattle user @Executor_N0 has provided a translation for the Japanese version of the text which is: "When the Pokémon are born, the powers of the Plates are distributed"

For this upgrade to go through, we would need more concrete and direct evidence, as this was stated in the conclusion of the last thread this was brought up. The current evidence is all circumstantial and has a lot of assumptions in my opinion.

Some major problems I have brought up:

1. Pokemon existed before the plates, so pokemon have gotten their powers without the plate.
2. There are no scenes or scans that show the plates giving pokemon their powers.
3. Pokemon have powers and abilities that are outside the typings and are unique to their biology/circumstance.
4. The quote mentions pokemon, yet this upgrade will give Arceus powers of non-pokemon.
5. Pokemon have been made by humans, and or form from human objects, or human enviroments and get their abilities, biology, and powers from that, not the plates.
6. The plates were made from the shards of the universe, and were imbued with the power of giants, unknown beings distinct and seperate from Arceus, so they are not all from Arceus's power.
7. The same poem, specifically says Arceus buried the plates, so if they are buried and lie dormant, how are they giving pokemon their powers.

 

[Antvasima]

@DontTalkDT , @Moritzva , @Agnaa


Moritzva and Agnaa are unavailable atm

I'll recommend those who participated in the creator gods thread.

Also try getting @Elizhaa too.

Thank you.

Can each side of the arguments here write an explanation post regarding what they need tl evaluate please?

 

[Antvasima]

I don't want to make another back and forth. So this will be my final statement and analysis for this thread.

I agreed with most stuff in the OP. Sniper should know which ones.

I disagree with Arceus getting the powers of all pokemon, humans, and nonpokemon outside of pokemon moves. Arceus should only get the powers he has been shown to have. He currently has access to all pokemon moves.

My reasoning for this disagreement for this addition is based on the fact that the only piece of evidence that supports this is one singular line of dialogue, from the engraving of the Meadow Plate.

The official english for the engraving is ""The powers of Plates are shared among Pokémon."
And our Vsbattle user @Executor_N0 has provided a translation for the Japanese version of the text which is: "When the Pokémon are born, the powers of the Plates are distributed"

For this upgrade to go through, we would need more concrete and direct evidence, as this was stated in the conclusion of the last thread this was brought up. The current evidence is all circumstantial and has a lot of assumptions in my opinion.

@Iamunanimousinthat

Is this sufficient to use as your explanation post? Or do you wish to write something more thorough?

 

[Sniper670]

I don't want to make another back and forth.

I agreed with most stuff in the OP. Sniper should know which ones.

I disagree with Arceus getting the powers of all pokemon, humans, and nonpokemon outside of pokemon moves. Arceus should only get the powers he has been shown to have. He currently has access to all pokemon moves.

My reasoning for this disagreement for this addition is based on the fact that the only piece of evidence that supports this is one singular line of dialogue, from the engraving of the Meadow Plate.

The official english for the engraving is ""The powers of Plates are shared among Pokémon."
And our Vsbattle user @Executor_N0 has provided a translation for the Japanese version of the text which is: "When the Pokémon are born, the powers of the Plates are distributed"

For this upgrade to go through, we would need more concrete and direct evidence, as this was stated in the conclusion of the last thread this was brought up. The current evidence is all circumstantial and has a lot of assumptions in my opinion.

Single Piece?

1. Each Plate has the Essence of a Type. Essence being a set of properties that makes something what it is and without it is ceases to exist as that

2. Pokémon are given the powers of the plates which is what makes up their genetic structure and allows them to use their powers.

3. Under the power bestowal, you can give powers you yourself don't have yourself, on the plates, it's explicitly mentioned When the Pokémon are born, the powers of the Plates are distributed

Essentially, the plates have the powers and it is giving it out. Which fits the bill of getting the powers you bestowed

Unless you want to tell me the plates can't have access to his own powers he uses. In that case you bring proof

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Is somebody here willing to provide Gyro with this information please?

@DontTalkDT
@Moritzva
@Maverick_Zero_X
@Dereck03
@SamanPatou (though he said he didn't want spoilers from Legends Arceus before, not sure if he has played it yet to be able to comment)
@CloverDragon03 (was called to the thread but didn't comment)
@Everything12 (has already expressed to be neutral)
@LordGriffin1000 (though he didn't comment on the thread itself and was moderating it mainly)

 

[Antvasima]

@DontTalkDT , @Moritzva , @Agnaa

Moritzva and Agnaa are unavailable atm

I'll recommend those who participated in the creator gods thread.

Also try getting @Elizhaa too.

@DontTalkDT
@Moritzva
@Maverick_Zero_X
@Dereck03
@SamanPatou (though he said he didn't want spoilers from Legends Arceus before, not sure if he has played it yet to be able to comment)
@CloverDragon03 (was called to the thread but didn't comment)
@Everything12 (has already expressed to be neutral)
@LordGriffin1000 (though he didn't comment on the thread itself and was moderating it mainly)

Thank you.

Can each side of the arguments here write an explanation post regarding what they need tl evaluate please?

@GyroNutz

It seems like we are beginning to get a structured approach here.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

@Iamunanimousinthat

Is this sufficient to use as your explanation post? Or do you wish to write something more thorough?

It's enough. Users can read by other posts if they want more in depth objections.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the problem is that they will most likely not have the available time to reach other posts. You need to include all of the most important information in a single post.

 

[Sniper670]

This. Iamunanimousinthat keeps referring me to the old thread. What she may have missed, is that all those arguments are shaky at best now

1. We now know Pokémon are given their powers from plates. Something Iamunanimousinthat vehemently disagreed in the last thread. Credibility of the last thread is significantly reduced because of this

2. The consequences of point 1 is that, regional variants, man made and semi man made Pokémon are all being given their powers, from plates
Doesn't matter whether Arceus created them directly or not. He only needs to exist to sustain the multiverse with the 18 plates powers . Point 1,kills 3 birds with 1 stone

3. Plus, the only time Arceus got "outsmarted" in JOL is because that goddamn llama was asleep the whole damn time and didn't think for a second they'd betray him, and yeah, the director of the movie mentioned that Arceus with all Plates is omnipotent and omniscient, they literlly had to resot to pis to make the movies happen. It's been retconned in Pokémon, One Called God movie . Because it's mentioned there
A. He only interferes to give hints for Pokémon and humans to solve their own problems. But humans and Pokémon have to solve their own problems
B. He's always watching humans and Pokémon. So good luck Outsmarting him now. Plus, this Arceus is noticeably more vulnerable. Game Arceus won't stand for this BS

4. Places that Arceus has not directly created. Another assumption. He mentioned ultra space is not created by CT. Completely untrue

5. "Arceus doesn't dictate every second and the world has a life of their own" . The only thing Arceus will get from dictating every second is fate manipulation. I don't even know why she included this in her thread. It has nothing to do with whether you get verse powers or not.

6. Dark Matter and everything in PMD exists because of Arceus. That alone shouldn't give anything but everything is connected to that source. It's mentioned in the first opening sequence of PMD. No Arceus =No spirit = No Emotions=No Dark Matter, Sandygast or Bannete and various ghost Pokémon that are born by, and feed on emotions.

7. Finally humans use psychic powers, with Arceus directly giving humans psychic powers potent enough to seal hoopa proving once again, that the the Plates are not even restricted to just Pokémon. For logical reason as each Plate generalizes what it can do. Mind Plate has the essence of psychic energy, completely unrestricted by just Pokémon and encompasses everything with psychic properties.

The plates are literally the concepts of every power that is used in the series. From psychic energy to spiritual powers to magic, fighting spirit, darkness and so on.

I debunked Iamunanimousinthat last thread as well. Bringing it up isn't recommended

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Well, the problem is that they will most likely not have the available time to reach other posts. You need to include all of the most important information in a single post.

I went back and added some objections I made throughout the post so they can read it all in one place. It will be up to them to decide if it supports my argument or not. Is there anything else I need to do?

 

[Antvasima]

I went back and added some objections I made throughout the post so they can read it all in one place. It will be up to them to decide if it supports my argument or not. Is there anything else I need to do?

No, I suppose not.

So is this fine then?

I don't want to make another back and forth. So this will be my final statement and analysis for this thread.

I agreed with most stuff in the OP. Sniper should know which ones.

I disagree with Arceus getting the powers of all pokemon, humans, and nonpokemon outside of pokemon moves. Arceus should only get the powers he has been shown to have. He currently has access to all pokemon moves.

My reasoning for this disagreement for this addition is based on the fact that the only piece of evidence that supports this is one singular line of dialogue, from the engraving of the Meadow Plate.

The official english for the engraving is ""The powers of Plates are shared among Pokémon."
And our Vsbattle user @Executor_N0 has provided a translation for the Japanese version of the text which is: "When the Pokémon are born, the powers of the Plates are distributed"

For this upgrade to go through, we would need more concrete and direct evidence, as this was stated in the conclusion of the last thread this was brought up. The current evidence is all circumstantial and has a lot of assumptions in my opinion.

Some major problems I have brought up:

1. Pokemon existed before the plates, so pokemon have gotten their powers without the plate.
2. There are scenes or scans that show the plates giving pokemon their powers.
3. Pokemon have powers and abilities that are outside the typings and are unique to their biology/circumstance.
4. The quote mentions pokemon, yet this upgrade will give Arceus powers of non-pokemon.
5. Pokemon have been made by humans, and or form from human objects, or human enviroments and get their abilities, biology, and powers from that, not the plates.
6. The plates were made from the shards of the universe, and were imbued with the power of giants, unknown beings distinct and seperate from Arceus, so they are not all from Arceus's power.
7. The same poem, specifically says Arceus buried the plates, so if they are buried and lie dormant, how are they giving pokemon their powers.

@Sniper670

Would you also be willing to write such a post, so I can call for the above-mentioned staff members, please?

 

[Sniper670]

No, I suppose not.

So is this fine then?

@Sniper670

Would you also be willing to write such a post, so I can call for the above-mentioned staff members, please?

Yes. Those points have been addressed here. I'll just look for them

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That is good then.

 

[Sniper670]

I don't want to make another back and forth. So this will be my final statement and analysis for this thread.

I agreed with most stuff in the OP. Sniper should know which ones.

I disagree with Arceus getting the powers of all pokemon, humans, and nonpokemon outside of pokemon moves. Arceus should only get the powers he has been shown to have. He currently has access to all pokemon moves.

My reasoning for this disagreement for this addition is based on the fact that the only piece of evidence that supports this is one singular line of dialogue, from the engraving of the Meadow Plate.

The official english for the engraving is ""The powers of Plates are shared among Pokémon."
And our Vsbattle user @Executor_N0 has provided a translation for the Japanese version of the text which is: "When the Pokémon are born, the powers of the Plates are distributed"

For this upgrade to go through, we would need more concrete and direct evidence, as this was stated in the conclusion of the last thread this was brought up. The current evidence is all circumstantial and has a lot of assumptions in my opinion.

1. Each Plate has the Essence of a Type. Essence being a set of properties that makes something what it is and without it is ceases to exist as that

2. Pokémon are given the powers of the plates which is what makes up their genetic structure and allows them to use their powers.

3. Under the power bestowal, you can give powers you yourself don't have yourself, on the plates, it's explicitly mentioned When the Pokémon are born, the powers of the Plates are distributed

Essentially, the plates have the powers and it is giving it out. Which fits the bill of getting the powers you bestowed

Unless you want to tell me the plates can't have access to his own powers he uses. In that case you bring proof

Some major problems I have brought up:

1. Pokemon existed before the plates, so pokemon have gotten their powers without the plate.

Only 3 plates.
1. Defeated Giants

"The power of defeated giants infuses this Plate."

2. Shards of the universe

"When the universe was created, its shards became this Plate."

3. His own powers

"The being poured the remains of its power into stone and buried it deep."

2. There are scenes or scans that show the plates giving pokemon their powers.

Show me Pikachu picking psychic plate and being able to use psychic powers, show me Charizard picking splash plate and using water powers. Only the Rightful Bearer can draw from the power it holds. For Logical Reasons
1. In the manga, they needed Arceus to come and use the plates himself. Which resulted in him being able to spam move after move. Something no Pokémon can
2. In the anime, Heatran was hit with an energy from the plates and the plates took control over him, and tried to go can to the rightful bearer. Heatran was using it? More like the Plate was using Heatran
3. No one can use the plates in PLA besides Arceus. So tell me, where did you get your info from. And that's where we got the confirmation on the full scope of the plates

3. Pokemon have powers and abilities that are outside the typings and are unique to their biology/circumstance.

And Pokémon biology is built around the 18 different Types

1. For instance, traces of Dragon Cells in Magikarp's cells<https://pokemonthenovel.dreamwidth.org/380.html>, hinting at its evolutionary Draconic nature and usage of several Dragon Moves

2. Mew having the DNA of every Pokémon, allowing it to use all types of moves.

<Because it is able to use every move, there are many scientists who believe that it is the ancestor of all Pokémon.>

<Its DNA is said to contain the genetic codes of all Pokémon, so it can use all kinds of techniques.>

3. Vaporeon cells have a composition that is similar to water molecules, Jolteon cells emit electric charges that allow it to use electric moves, Leafeon has cells similar to plants and its because of Eevee's unstable genetic makeup that allows it to have diverse Typings

4.Beldum's cell composition is magnetic

5.Chinchou cells generate electricity as well

6.Ditto can change it’s molecular structure to transform into a perfect copy of an opponent, with their powers and all

7.Heleoptile cells generate electricity

8.Castform cells are exactly like those of water Molecules

4. The quote mentions pokemon, yet this upgrade will give Arceus powers of non-pokemon.

Non Pokémon because the plates are not limited to just Pokémon, but everything. The very Essence of all creation. The powers in the plates act as concepts of sorts.
Arceus has the essence of the powers that everyone users, literally the blueprint of every power in the universe. He already has your powers before, now and forever, is it psychic powers, spiritual or even magical? He has them, that’s just Mind, Spooky and Pixie Plate. Sabrina, arguably the best human Psychic in the series, directly says that all humans have Psychic powers, they just don't realize it. Armarouge's psychic powers come from the Armor of a warrior, manipulating the psychic energy and fire energy for moves, both of which Arceus has the essence of as well. Arceus directly gave humans psychic powers powerful enough to seal Hoopa. Yes, they’re not Pokémon. In the episode hocus pocus, a girl can cast magic spells with spell books. Humans can read and control the same aura power as Lucario in Lucario and the mystery of mew, Olympia can see the future. The plates are the foundation of everything. It just so happens that Pokémon are the widely known users of these supernatural powers. Case in point, the plates are not restricted to just Pokémon. Psychic powers, magical, spiritual, elemental based powers, the plates have the essence of it all, and anyone and everyone could use it, granted they have the means to do

5. Pokemon have been made by humans, and or form from human objects, or human enviroments and get their abilities, biology, and powers from that, not the plates.

Pokémon can be made by everything, the plates act as concepts that Pokémon will be born around.

A Pokémon born with electric cells? Go and give Arceus thanks for your existence . For it is with the Essence of Electricity that you're alive

6. The plates were made from the shards of the universe, and were imbued with the power of giants, unknown beings distinct and seperate from Arceus, so they are not all from Arceus's power.

Only one Plate was made from the shards of the Universe

"When the universe was created, its shards became this Plate."

Saying all the plates are from the shards of the universe goes contrary to two things

1. Arceus placed his own powers into stone, what he used to start the universe existence

"The being poured the remains of its power into stone and buried it deep."

2. Powers of defeated giants is infused in one plate

"The power of defeated giants infuses this Plate."

7. The same poem, specifically says Arceus buried the plates, so if they are buried and lie dormant, how are they giving pokemon their powers.

It's simple the plates act as concepts. And Pokémon and everything are built around. Again, the Plates has the very Essence, the fundamental properties of everything, it doesn't matter where they are at all.

How does this contradict the fact that it has the Essence of all creation?

A stone tablet imbued with the essence of all creation

It doesn't

 

[Sniper670]

Okay. That is good then.

I'm done

 

[GyroNutz]

counter arguments

counter-counter arguments

@DontTalkDT @Moritzva @Maverick_Zero_X @Dereck03 @CloverDragon03 @LordGriffin1000 @Elizhaa @Agnaa Your help here in evaluating this thread would be appreciated.

 

[Sniper670]

@Arceus0x

I've applied the changes

 

[Sniper670]

BUMP

 

[Elizhaa]

Sniper670's arguments seem stronger to me.

 

[Sniper670]

Vote Counted

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you to everybody who are helping out here.

 

[Sniper670]

Thank you to everybody who are helping out here.

@Moritzva didn't comment, neither did @DontTalkDT. @Agnaa has been offline for weeks. Could you call other staff? Or we could apply it, since we got two agreement from knowledgeable Pokémon supporters (staff)

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

@Moritzva didn't comment, neither did @DontTalkDT. @Agnaa has been offline for weeks. Could you call other staff? Or we could apply it, since we got two agreement from knowledgeable Pokémon supporters (staff)

Let's wait a bit. I don't want another multi page thread to be made immediately after this one.

 

[Sniper670]

Well, it's been almost 24 hours