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Pokemon God Revision- Yes its Arceus (And minor stuff for Unown)

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Whoever is editing the profiles is making a mistake.

Please, Arceus stuff should not be placed in the True Form Key. You only place Original Spirit stuff in that key

Anyway, I have an exam so when I get back I'll try to get the hang of it and edit it, since my knowledge about this is limited

If anyone wants to help, please follow the directions I gave above

Thanks
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
Arceus already has access to all pokemon moves. That is the extent of which the statements about the plates can cover.
Click to expand...
I acknowledged this in my post.

Iamunanimousinthat said:
Top creators in the pokemon franchise describe Arceus as being an Alpha pokemon and then talk about him changing his type. There's no other direct mention of Arceus being able to do everything in the verse.
Click to expand...
Being pedantic, but I wouldn't call Pokemon manga and TCG illustrators "top creators" - that would be people heavily involved with the games. Still, this doesn't contradict Arceus' abilities, it just explains one facet of his powers.


Iamunanimousinthat said:
Also this argument, that Arceus should be able to do everything other pokemon can do because they all use the same essence doesn't make sense. By this logic, Emboar should be able to use skyuppercut because Blaziken a fire-fighting type can. They both have access to the same essence/energy right?
Click to expand...
They are both Fire and Fighting type, which comes from the plates. That's the source. What they do with that power is their capability, moreso based on their biology and skillset. Arceus' plates (and by extension Arceus himself) are responsible for the Pokemon's biology and capability, which is how Arceus would be able to use Sky Uppercut when Emboar cannot.

Iamunanimousinthat said:
It was already decided in previous thread that more information and proof is needed to claim that Arceus gets the powers of pokemon that doesn't come from their moves.
Click to expand...
Antvasima said:
Anyway, what did Gyro and Everything12 decide here?
Click to expand...
I suppose we could use the opinions of a few more knowledgeable and/or staff members? If someone lets me know who was active in the last thread this was discussed I can tag them.
 
GyroNutz said:
I suppose we could use the opinions of a few more knowledgeable and/or staff members? If someone lets me know who was active in the last thread this was discussed I can tag them.
Click to expand...
That is probably a good idea.

Thank you for helping out.
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
Where is the evidence for this statement?

Especially when humans have made their own pokemon, and pokemon form from man made objects, and conditions.
Click to expand...
It's all connected to the source. Arceus's plates have the Essence of ALL creation. Honestly you need to be ignored at this point. Don't you know what ESSENCE means? Let me spell it out to you
Essence is the property or set of properties that make an entity or object what it fundamentally is, and without it, ceases to exist as that entity or object. Essence is more basic and primary than the body, soul, and mind. The physical form of an entity or object is just a projection of it's essence.
Click to expand...

Plus, the powers of the plates are bestowed upon Pokémon who are born.
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
Especially when humans have made their own pokemon, and pokemon form from man made objects, and conditions.
Click to expand...
Humans can use psychic powers. Who has the essence of psychic energy? Arceus

Man made Pokémon is born of Poison, or Programming Code


Essense of Poison as well as the psychic type of that programming code is found within God's fragments
 
Sniper670 said:
Humans can use psychic powers. Who has the essence of psychic energy? Arceus

Man made Pokémon is born of Poison, or Programming Code


Essense of Poison as well as the psychic type of that programming code is found within God's fragments
Click to expand...
And where is your evidence that programming code comes from the psychic plate? You're just making everything up.
 
GyroNutz said:
I suppose we could use the opinions of a few more knowledgeable and/or staff members? If someone lets me know who was active in the last thread this was discussed I can tag them.
Click to expand...
Is somebody here willing to provide Gyro with this information please?
 
I don't want to make another back and forth. So this will be my final statement and analysis for this thread.

I agreed with most stuff in the OP. Sniper should know which ones.

I disagree with Arceus getting the powers of all pokemon, humans, and nonpokemon outside of pokemon moves. Arceus should only get the powers he has been shown to have. He currently has access to all pokemon moves.

My reasoning for this disagreement for this addition is based on the fact that the only piece of evidence that supports this is one singular line of dialogue, from the engraving of the Meadow Plate.

The official english for the engraving is ""The powers of Plates are shared among Pokémon."
And our Vsbattle user @Executor_N0 has provided a translation for the Japanese version of the text which is: "When the Pokémon are born, the powers of the Plates are distributed"

For this upgrade to go through, we would need more concrete and direct evidence, as this was stated in the conclusion of the last thread this was brought up. The current evidence is all circumstantial and has a lot of assumptions in my opinion.

Some major problems I have brought up:

1. Pokemon existed before the plates, so pokemon have gotten their powers without the plate.
2. There are no scenes or scans that show the plates giving pokemon their powers.
3. Pokemon have powers and abilities that are outside the typings and are unique to their biology/circumstance.
4. The quote mentions pokemon, yet this upgrade will give Arceus powers of non-pokemon.
5. Pokemon have been made by humans, and or form from human objects, or human enviroments and get their abilities, biology, and powers from that, not the plates.
6. The plates were made from the shards of the universe, and were imbued with the power of giants, unknown beings distinct and seperate from Arceus, so they are not all from Arceus's power.
7. The same poem, specifically says Arceus buried the plates, so if they are buried and lie dormant, how are they giving pokemon their powers.
 
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Iamunanimousinthat said:
I don't want to make another back and forth. So this will be my final statement and analysis for this thread.

I agreed with most stuff in the OP. Sniper should know which ones.

I disagree with Arceus getting the powers of all pokemon, humans, and nonpokemon outside of pokemon moves. Arceus should only get the powers he has been shown to have. He currently has access to all pokemon moves.

My reasoning for this disagreement for this addition is based on the fact that the only piece of evidence that supports this is one singular line of dialogue, from the engraving of the Meadow Plate.

The official english for the engraving is ""The powers of Plates are shared among Pokémon."
And our Vsbattle user @Executor_N0 has provided a translation for the Japanese version of the text which is: "When the Pokémon are born, the powers of the Plates are distributed"

For this upgrade to go through, we would need more concrete and direct evidence, as this was stated in the conclusion of the last thread this was brought up. The current evidence is all circumstantial and has a lot of assumptions in my opinion.
Click to expand...
@Iamunanimousinthat

Is this sufficient to use as your explanation post? Or do you wish to write something more thorough?
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
I don't want to make another back and forth.

I agreed with most stuff in the OP. Sniper should know which ones.

I disagree with Arceus getting the powers of all pokemon, humans, and nonpokemon outside of pokemon moves. Arceus should only get the powers he has been shown to have. He currently has access to all pokemon moves.
Click to expand...

Iamunanimousinthat said:
My reasoning for this disagreement for this addition is based on the fact that the only piece of evidence that supports this is one singular line of dialogue, from the engraving of the Meadow Plate.

The official english for the engraving is ""The powers of Plates are shared among Pokémon."
And our Vsbattle user @Executor_N0 has provided a translation for the Japanese version of the text which is: "When the Pokémon are born, the powers of the Plates are distributed"

For this upgrade to go through, we would need more concrete and direct evidence, as this was stated in the conclusion of the last thread this was brought up. The current evidence is all circumstantial and has a lot of assumptions in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Single Piece?

1. Each Plate has the Essence of a Type. Essence being a set of properties that makes something what it is and without it is ceases to exist as that

2. Pokémon are given the powers of the plates which is what makes up their genetic structure and allows them to use their powers.

3. Under the power bestowal, you can give powers you yourself don't have yourself, on the plates, it's explicitly mentioned When the Pokémon are born, the powers of the Plates are distributed

Essentially, the plates have the powers and it is giving it out. Which fits the bill of getting the powers you bestowed

Unless you want to tell me the plates can't have access to his own powers he uses. In that case you bring proof
 
Antvasima said:
Is somebody here willing to provide Gyro with this information please?
Click to expand...
@DontTalkDT
@Moritzva
@Maverick_Zero_X
@Dereck03
@SamanPatou (though he said he didn't want spoilers from Legends Arceus before, not sure if he has played it yet to be able to comment)
@CloverDragon03 (was called to the thread but didn't comment)
@Everything12 (has already expressed to be neutral)
@LordGriffin1000 (though he didn't comment on the thread itself and was moderating it mainly)
 
Sniper670 said:
@DontTalkDT , @Moritzva , @Agnaa

Moritzva and Agnaa are unavailable atm

I'll recommend those who participated in the creator gods thread.

Also try getting @Elizhaa too.
Click to expand...
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
@DontTalkDT
@Moritzva
@Maverick_Zero_X
@Dereck03
@SamanPatou (though he said he didn't want spoilers from Legends Arceus before, not sure if he has played it yet to be able to comment)
@CloverDragon03 (was called to the thread but didn't comment)
@Everything12 (has already expressed to be neutral)
@LordGriffin1000 (though he didn't comment on the thread itself and was moderating it mainly)
Click to expand...
Antvasima said:
Thank you.

Can each side of the arguments here write an explanation post regarding what they need tl evaluate please?
Click to expand...
@GyroNutz

It seems like we are beginning to get a structured approach here.
 
Well, the problem is that they will most likely not have the available time to reach other posts. You need to include all of the most important information in a single post.
 
Sniper670 said:
This. Iamunanimousinthat keeps referring me to the old thread. What she may have missed, is that all those arguments are shaky at best now

1. We now know Pokémon are given their powers from plates. Something Iamunanimousinthat vehemently disagreed in the last thread. Credibility of the last thread is significantly reduced because of this

2. The consequences of point 1 is that, regional variants, man made and semi man made Pokémon are all being given their powers, from plates
Doesn't matter whether Arceus created them directly or not. He only needs to exist to sustain the multiverse with the 18 plates powers . Point 1,kills 3 birds with 1 stone

3. Plus, the only time Arceus got "outsmarted" in JOL is because that goddamn llama was asleep the whole damn time and didn't think for a second they'd betray him, and yeah, the director of the movie mentioned that Arceus with all Plates is omnipotent and omniscient, they literlly had to resot to pis to make the movies happen. It's been retconned in Pokémon, One Called God movie . Because it's mentioned there
A. He only interferes to give hints for Pokémon and humans to solve their own problems. But humans and Pokémon have to solve their own problems
B. He's always watching humans and Pokémon. So good luck Outsmarting him now. Plus, this Arceus is noticeably more vulnerable. Game Arceus won't stand for this BS

4. Places that Arceus has not directly created. Another assumption. He mentioned ultra space is not created by CT. Completely untrue

5. "Arceus doesn't dictate every second and the world has a life of their own" . The only thing Arceus will get from dictating every second is fate manipulation. I don't even know why she included this in her thread. It has nothing to do with whether you get verse powers or not.

6. Dark Matter and everything in PMD exists because of Arceus. That alone shouldn't give anything but everything is connected to that source. It's mentioned in the first opening sequence of PMD. No Arceus =No spirit = No Emotions=No Dark Matter, Sandygast or Bannete and various ghost Pokémon that are born by, and feed on emotions.

7. Finally humans use psychic powers, with Arceus directly giving humans psychic powers potent enough to seal hoopa proving once again, that the the Plates are not even restricted to just Pokémon. For logical reason as each Plate generalizes what it can do. Mind Plate has the essence of psychic energy, completely unrestricted by just Pokémon and encompasses everything with psychic properties.

The plates are literally the concepts of every power that is used in the series. From psychic energy to spiritual powers to magic, fighting spirit, darkness and so on.
Click to expand...
I debunked Iamunanimousinthat last thread as well. Bringing it up isn't recommended
 
Antvasima said:
Well, the problem is that they will most likely not have the available time to reach other posts. You need to include all of the most important information in a single post.
Click to expand...
I went back and added some objections I made throughout the post so they can read it all in one place. It will be up to them to decide if it supports my argument or not. Is there anything else I need to do?
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
I went back and added some objections I made throughout the post so they can read it all in one place. It will be up to them to decide if it supports my argument or not. Is there anything else I need to do?
Click to expand...
No, I suppose not.

So is this fine then?
Iamunanimousinthat said:
I don't want to make another back and forth. So this will be my final statement and analysis for this thread.

I agreed with most stuff in the OP. Sniper should know which ones.

I disagree with Arceus getting the powers of all pokemon, humans, and nonpokemon outside of pokemon moves. Arceus should only get the powers he has been shown to have. He currently has access to all pokemon moves.

My reasoning for this disagreement for this addition is based on the fact that the only piece of evidence that supports this is one singular line of dialogue, from the engraving of the Meadow Plate.

The official english for the engraving is ""The powers of Plates are shared among Pokémon."
And our Vsbattle user @Executor_N0 has provided a translation for the Japanese version of the text which is: "When the Pokémon are born, the powers of the Plates are distributed"

For this upgrade to go through, we would need more concrete and direct evidence, as this was stated in the conclusion of the last thread this was brought up. The current evidence is all circumstantial and has a lot of assumptions in my opinion.

Some major problems I have brought up:

1. Pokemon existed before the plates, so pokemon have gotten their powers without the plate.
2. There are scenes or scans that show the plates giving pokemon their powers.
3. Pokemon have powers and abilities that are outside the typings and are unique to their biology/circumstance.
4. The quote mentions pokemon, yet this upgrade will give Arceus powers of non-pokemon.
5. Pokemon have been made by humans, and or form from human objects, or human enviroments and get their abilities, biology, and powers from that, not the plates.
6. The plates were made from the shards of the universe, and were imbued with the power of giants, unknown beings distinct and seperate from Arceus, so they are not all from Arceus's power.
7. The same poem, specifically says Arceus buried the plates, so if they are buried and lie dormant, how are they giving pokemon their powers.
Click to expand...
@Sniper670

Would you also be willing to write such a post, so I can call for the above-mentioned staff members, please?
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
I don't want to make another back and forth. So this will be my final statement and analysis for this thread.

I agreed with most stuff in the OP. Sniper should know which ones.

I disagree with Arceus getting the powers of all pokemon, humans, and nonpokemon outside of pokemon moves. Arceus should only get the powers he has been shown to have. He currently has access to all pokemon moves.

My reasoning for this disagreement for this addition is based on the fact that the only piece of evidence that supports this is one singular line of dialogue, from the engraving of the Meadow Plate.

The official english for the engraving is ""The powers of Plates are shared among Pokémon."
And our Vsbattle user @Executor_N0 has provided a translation for the Japanese version of the text which is: "When the Pokémon are born, the powers of the Plates are distributed"

For this upgrade to go through, we would need more concrete and direct evidence, as this was stated in the conclusion of the last thread this was brought up. The current evidence is all circumstantial and has a lot of assumptions in my opinion.
Click to expand...
1. Each Plate has the Essence of a Type. Essence being a set of properties that makes something what it is and without it is ceases to exist as that

2. Pokémon are given the powers of the plates which is what makes up their genetic structure and allows them to use their powers.

3. Under the power bestowal, you can give powers you yourself don't have yourself, on the plates, it's explicitly mentioned When the Pokémon are born, the powers of the Plates are distributed

Essentially, the plates have the powers and it is giving it out. Which fits the bill of getting the powers you bestowed

Unless you want to tell me the plates can't have access to his own powers he uses. In that case you bring proof
Iamunanimousinthat said:
Some major problems I have brought up:

1. Pokemon existed before the plates, so pokemon have gotten their powers without the plate.
Click to expand...
Only 3 plates.
1. Defeated Giants
"The power of defeated giants infuses this Plate."
Click to expand...
2. Shards of the universe
"When the universe was created, its shards became this Plate."
Click to expand...
3. His own powers
"The being poured the remains of its power into stone and buried it deep."
Click to expand...
Iamunanimousinthat said:
2. There are scenes or scans that show the plates giving pokemon their powers.
Click to expand...
Show me Pikachu picking psychic plate and being able to use psychic powers, show me Charizard picking splash plate and using water powers. Only the Rightful Bearer can draw from the power it holds. For Logical Reasons
1. In the manga, they needed Arceus to come and use the plates himself. Which resulted in him being able to spam move after move. Something no Pokémon can
2. In the anime, Heatran was hit with an energy from the plates and the plates took control over him, and tried to go can to the rightful bearer. Heatran was using it? More like the Plate was using Heatran
3. No one can use the plates in PLA besides Arceus. So tell me, where did you get your info from. And that's where we got the confirmation on the full scope of the plates
Iamunanimousinthat said:
3. Pokemon have powers and abilities that are outside the typings and are unique to their biology/circumstance.
Click to expand...
And Pokémon biology is built around the 18 different Types

1. For instance, traces of Dragon Cells in Magikarp's cells<https://pokemonthenovel.dreamwidth.org/380.html>, hinting at its evolutionary Draconic nature and usage of several Dragon Moves

2. Mew having the DNA of every Pokémon, allowing it to use all types of moves.

<Because it is able to use every move, there are many scientists who believe that it is the ancestor of all Pokémon.>

<Its DNA is said to contain the genetic codes of all Pokémon, so it can use all kinds of techniques.>

3. Vaporeon cells have a composition that is similar to water molecules, Jolteon cells emit electric charges that allow it to use electric moves, Leafeon has cells similar to plants and its because of Eevee's unstable genetic makeup that allows it to have diverse Typings

4.Beldum's cell composition is magnetic

5.Chinchou cells generate electricity as well

6.Ditto can change it’s molecular structure to transform into a perfect copy of an opponent, with their powers and all

7.Heleoptile cells generate electricity

8.Castform cells are exactly like those of water Molecules

Iamunanimousinthat said:
4. The quote mentions pokemon, yet this upgrade will give Arceus powers of non-pokemon.
Click to expand...
Non Pokémon because the plates are not limited to just Pokémon, but everything. The very Essence of all creation. The powers in the plates act as concepts of sorts.
Arceus has the essence of the powers that everyone users, literally the blueprint of every power in the universe. He already has your powers before, now and forever, is it psychic powers, spiritual or even magical? He has them, that’s just Mind, Spooky and Pixie Plate. Sabrina, arguably the best human Psychic in the series, directly says that all humans have Psychic powers, they just don't realize it. Armarouge's psychic powers come from the Armor of a warrior, manipulating the psychic energy and fire energy for moves, both of which Arceus has the essence of as well. Arceus directly gave humans psychic powers powerful enough to seal Hoopa. Yes, they’re not Pokémon. In the episode hocus pocus, a girl can cast magic spells with spell books. Humans can read and control the same aura power as Lucario in Lucario and the mystery of mew, Olympia can see the future. The plates are the foundation of everything. It just so happens that Pokémon are the widely known users of these supernatural powers. Case in point, the plates are not restricted to just Pokémon. Psychic powers, magical, spiritual, elemental based powers, the plates have the essence of it all, and anyone and everyone could use it, granted they have the means to do


Iamunanimousinthat said:
5. Pokemon have been made by humans, and or form from human objects, or human enviroments and get their abilities, biology, and powers from that, not the plates.
Click to expand...
Pokémon can be made by everything, the plates act as concepts that Pokémon will be born around.

A Pokémon born with electric cells? Go and give Arceus thanks for your existence 👍. For it is with the Essence of Electricity that you're alive
Iamunanimousinthat said:
6. The plates were made from the shards of the universe, and were imbued with the power of giants, unknown beings distinct and seperate from Arceus, so they are not all from Arceus's power.
Click to expand...
Only one Plate was made from the shards of the Universe
"When the universe was created, its shards became this Plate."
Click to expand...

Saying all the plates are from the shards of the universe goes contrary to two things

1. Arceus placed his own powers into stone, what he used to start the universe existence
"The being poured the remains of its power into stone and buried it deep."
Click to expand...
2. Powers of defeated giants is infused in one plate
"The power of defeated giants infuses this Plate."
Click to expand...

7. The same poem, specifically says Arceus buried the plates, so if they are buried and lie dormant, how are they giving pokemon their powers.
Click to expand...
It's simple the plates act as concepts. And Pokémon and everything are built around. Again, the Plates has the very Essence, the fundamental properties of everything, it doesn't matter where they are at all.

How does this contradict the fact that it has the Essence of all creation?
A stone tablet imbued with the essence of all creation
Click to expand...
It doesn't
 
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