Pokemon God Revision- Yes its Arceus (And minor stuff for Unown)

[InfiniteDay]

the main point of this is Arceus getting everything so you would be in Disagree

Fair.

 

[Hasty12345]

How many threads on this topic do we need?

 

[Thelastmlg]

Which part you disagree on him getting, so we can add it to the disagree vote to be specific

 

[Arceus0x]

How many threads on this topic do we need?

Until we win and get Arceus his rightful powers.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Limited because?

Honestly it seems to be a fairly powerful form since it requires Arceus to accept changes for the them to happen

Didn't say it wasn't powerful. It is just limited. He didn't manipulate causality, he allowed the changes made by someone else to happen to the timeline. It's a very specific action. Which is why I said Acausality type one is more in line.

You didn't read the scans did you? .
"This challenge shall continue for as long as thou wouldst wish it"

It's called the Eternal Battle Reverie for a reason. Yes, you can bring those, he still qualifies for Infinite stamina tho.

"By your example " doesn't explain why it isn't infinite stamina

He's not the one fighting in the Eternal Battle Reverie. The pokemon he summons are.

 

[Sniper670]

Didn't say it wasn't powerful. It is just limited. He didn't manipulate causality, he allowed the changes made by someone else to happen to the timeline. It's a very specific action. Which is why I said Acausality type one is more in line.

This is not Acausality Type 1. Thats immunity to changes in the past. But causality didn't take effect for not just Arceus, but the entire world, whether related or unrelated. This is resistances to causality hax. Unconventional maybe. But definitely not limited

He's not the one fighting in the Eternal Battle Reverie. The pokemon he summons are.

He also fights. And if he can grant endless battles to all mons and he himself can fight eternally, that's infinite stamina

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

This is not Acausality Type 1. Thats immunity to changes in the past. But causality didn't take effect for not just Arceus, but the entire world, whether related or unrelated. This is resistances to causality hax. Unconventional maybe. But definitely not limited

Nobody used Causality Manipulation on him, that's why it's not causality manipulation. Ash and company went to the past and changed the timeline, and he allowed the changes to take place in the present.

 

[Sniper670]

Well, we're not making any assumptions. We're only going off what the source material gave us

1. Arceus is the source of the powers the Pokémon use
2. With every Pokémon being composed of at least one of the elements.
3. The Legend plate supports point 1 by saying it allows Arceus to use every types powers, for logical reasons as its the Origin. And is definitely not only moves going off all Plate showings outside game mechanics

@Iamunanimousinthat Explain why it requires assumption.

 

[Sniper670]

Nobody used Causality Manipulation on him, that's why it's not causality manipulation. Ash and company went to the past and changed the timeline, and he allowed the changes to take place in the present.

Ash did. He went back in the past to change history, (Cause) which was expected to overwrite the present (Effect) and it didn't happen to the entire world, not just Arceus. Until Causality got his approval and it began to take effect.

 

[Thelastmlg]

Gonna have to disagree with resistance to causality tbh, we do not treat simple being unaffected by change in the timeline as it, it might be acausality type 4 or something, but resist to it's manipulation would require someone to be actually directly warping causality rather than simple time travel shenanigans.

As for the actual manipulation, i'm mixed between unconventional and limited, i mean either way probably won't affect anything since is just text before the hax, limited is usually just due to how they activact the power, arceus tecnically is directly controlling causality but he didn't really bring the new changes himself, they were there, he just allowed them to overwrite the previous timeline.

Either limited or limited/unconventional should work

 

[Sniper670]

I concede then

Acausality Type 1 with a note that he's able to choose whether the changes will affect him or not. That works?

 

[Thelastmlg]

Yeah, probably something like

"Acausality (type 1, Unaffected by changes in history unless he allows them)"

 

[Sniper670]

Great

 

[y3p_owo]

Looks good to me

 

[Sniper670]

Vote counted

 

[Sniper670]

Well, we're not making any assumptions. We're only going off what the source material gave us

1. Arceus is the source of the powers the Pokémon use
2. With every Pokémon being composed of at least one of the elements.
3. The Legend plate supports point 1 by saying it allows Arceus to use every types powers, for logical reasons as its the Origin. And is definetely not only moves going off all Plate showings outside game mechanics

@Iamunanimousinthat could you elaborate on why it requires assumption?

 

[Nanashi]

The OP is long, but it's simple overall. Anyways, I agree.

 

[Sniper670]

Vote counted. Thanks for your input

 

[Arceus0x]

@Iamunanimousinthat could you elaborate on why it requires assumption?

Guess just wait for the response. They should report within the next days. It's better to counter any counterargument whilst sacrificing some time instead of having to argue in a downgrade thread later on.

 

[Sniper670]

Agreed. We wait to see

 

[Arceus0x]

Also sorry, not report, i meant to write respond. My head aint working well today.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

We've already had a whole thread about why Arceus doesn't get every single power of the verse. The plates were decided to not be enough evidence. You're still basing your argument on the plates.

There is nothing to suggest that because Arceus uses the same essence or energy of types as other pokemon, that Arceus can do what other can do with the essence or energy.

There are no direct showings or statements that say Arceus can do everything in the verse. You are assuming because the the plates have the same essence/power as everything, then Arceus can do everything, but you have no evidence of that. It's an assumption.

 

[Sniper670]

There are no direct showings or statements that say Arceus can do everything in the verse. You are assuming because the the plates have the same essence/power as everything, then Arceus can do everything, but you have no evidence of that. It's an assumption.

Direct Statement :

"A Slate that holds the power of all things. When used on a Pokémon, it gains every Type’s powers”

Who's making the assumptions?

And no, we've not discussed anything, I got an in depth translation from Executor_N0 on the day I got banned

 

[Hasty12345]

this should be a discussion rule at this point

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

This does not answer the question. I'll repeat what I said.

We're only going off what the source material gave us

1. Arceus is the source of the powers the Pokémon use
2. With every Pokémon being composed of at least one of the elements.
3. The Legend plate supports point 1 by saying it allows Arceus to gain every types powers, for logical reasons as its the Origin. And is definetely not only moves going off all Plate showings outside game mechanics

You keep say it means only moves when there's every indication that the plates have served most of its purposes outside of it.

Direct Statement :
"A Slate that holds the power of all things. When used on a Pokémon, it gains every Type’s powers”

Who's making the assumptions?

...We've already seen all this before. You're just rehashing the same thing from the last thread.

"gain every types powers" can also just refer to Arceus's type change.

You have no other evidence. No statements and No Showings that DIRECTLY state that Arceus can use the abilities of every being in the franchise.

 

[Sniper670]

I don't even have to stress myself because everything has been shown in the OP. And it's easier because you already admit Arceus can have all moves for this same reason.

Power of all things’ only means possessing the type and thats it' ie. Game mechanics depiction of Multitype, which is to change his type and the type of his “Judgement” move. If we go with game mechanics then you're right, untrue outside of it. Arceus has shown spamming various moves after accessing the various plates. Something that was also shown in the anime, nothing that happened here is something Arceus can canonically do in gameplay with his ability. Neither is this, yes canonically he cannot use light to bless Pokemon, with more power. God being restrained by game mechanics doesn’t make him limited outside of it, going by lore, showings, cutscenes and interviews surrounding him. There is a page made specifically for game mechanics.

There is also a clear distinction between what the Plates can do, and what Silvally can do via Memories. What I'm trying to do here, is show you the difference between simply changing Types and actually gaining/being able to harness the power of the Type.Let's take the Draco Plate and Compare that to Dragon Memory

Draco Plate

<A stone tablet imbued with the essence of dragons. When used on a certain Pokémon, it allows that Pokémon to gain the power of the Dragon Type >

Dragon Memory

. <Changes Silvally into its Dragon Form. Changes Multi-Attacks type to Dragon>

Noticed the difference? Draco Plate has the very essence of Dragons, a very broad statement encompassing all dragons, giving him the power of Dragon Type while changing his Type, while Silvally only changes Type and change specifically, Multi Attack to Dragon Type. One Generalized it, the other specified it to its max capability, Multi-Attack type change. And going by all the plates showings, as well as it being the Origin of all Pokémon powers, yeah what you're saying doesn't hold water

 

[Sniper670]

It's in the OP but I feel I need to repeat it.

Let’s piece this together.

1. Each Plate Contains the Essense of a Type. Essence being the set of properties that makes something what it fundamentally is.

2. The Typing of Pokemon originates from the Plates, which, as mentioned above, holds the essence of the Type, and allows Pokemon to use supernatural powers

3. The Legend Plate has the power of everything, a broad statement encompassing the capabilities of everything in the universe. This allows its users to gain every type’s powers for logical reasons as listed in points 1 and 2.

With all this, Iamunanimousinthat is still saying there is no statement that Arceus has the abilities of all Pokémon. If it didn't, the first sentence of the Legend Plate won't make an all encompassing statement. If it didn't, then Arceus wouldn't have the properties that make every power what it fundamentally is. You admit it means all moves but you don't agree it means other powers stemming from the 18 different Typings Arceus possess essences of. Why? Simply. You're assuming limitations when the legend plate never places such a restriction. And it goes against 99% of the showings of the plates. Pretty ironic because you say I'm the one making assumptions, when I'm just going with what the source material gives us

Is to hard to understand that God can do what his creations can do? Especially when its mentioned his artifacts holds all powers? As the Omnipotent being of his verse? Being "Almighty" mentioned several times in PLA

For Arecus to have the power of everything, he needs to be able able have the powers of every type. Why? Simple, because every power shown in the series falls under 1 of the 18 Types and Pokémon genetic structures are built around the 18 Types and the Origin of their powers is the plates

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Sniper until you get evidence other than just the plates, I won't agree with it. We have already dealt deep in discussing them and the outcome of the last thread was that they were not enough. Do you have any other evidence?

 

[Arceus0x]

this should be a discussion rule at this point

Can't handle a crt hasty boy?

 

[Hasty12345]

Can't handle a crt hasty boy?

How about you bring some new arguments, seems like you guys are the ones who can’t handle rejection.

 

[Sniper670]

Sniper until you get evidence other than just the plates, I won't agree with it.

You missed the point of the CRT.
I made this crt to connect the Origin of Pokémon genetics , as well as the powers Pokémon use to back up the Legend plate, to show that all the powers/abilities they use is because of the power the plates grants them. These are completely new arguments which are made to simply back up what the Legend Plate says. I'll repeat

1. You said it only means just change type. I debunked that

2. Now you said it means only all moves. I debunked that

3. You're free to say power of all things only allows Arceus to do some things. But prove Arceus is limited by what power he can use.

We have already dealt deep in discussing them and the outcome of the last thread was that they were not enough.

Yes. In the end, you assumed it means only moves. Which I made a huge crt proving that's completely false.

It's your word against WoG. Prove to us that the only thing the plates have is moves. You're referring me to an old thread which unironically didn't come close to proving your headcannon/assumptions

Do you have any other evidence?

Going off this thread. I came across this quote

But if a purpose of some artifact is literally to "Bestow a small fraction of the creator god's power",

Pokémon are assigned to a Type from essence of the plates which allows Pokémon to use Supernatural powers in God's own universe. Plus, the plates are literally fragments of him

And this

Only if its stated or shown to be able to use the powers of the entire series would be okay.

The plates have the power of Everything. Encompassing the capabilities of everything.

Nvm, it's clear you're not ready to change your mind. I'll call DDM and Elizhaa later today.

 

[Sniper670]

How about you bring some new arguments, seems like you guys are the ones who can’t handle rejection.

We did. If not, the thread wouldn't be so big. You're agreeing to Iamunanimousinthat headcannon that it means only moves when most of the showings of the plates goes beyond that.

Funny enough, she couldn't refute it, so her last ditch effort is to refer me to the last thread, as if the answer is there

 

[Arceus0x]

How about you bring some new arguments, seems like you guys are the ones who can’t handle rejection.

And you seem to go straight to discussion rules despite Sniper making a proper large CRT. We can handle rejection, doesn't mean we have to accept it.

 

[Arceus0x]

Also, nobody on green earth will go through 10 pages of that bs to figure out why Arceus has no abilities if the topic gets brought up again. This is the perfect opportunity to thoroughly debunk this in an organized manner so everyone can see why and how it was debunked.

 

[Sniper670]

Also, nobody on green earth will go through 10 pages of that bs to figure out why Arceus has no abilities if the topic gets brought up again. This is the perfect opportunity to thoroughly debunk this in an organized manner so everyone can see why and how it was debunked.

This. Iamunanimousinthat keeps referring me to the old thread. What she may have missed, is that all those arguments are shaky at best now

1. We now know Pokémon are given their powers from plates. Something Iamunanimousinthat vehemently disagreed in the last thread. Credibility of the last thread is significantly reduced because of this

2. The consequences of point 1 is that, regional variants, man made and semi man made Pokémon are all being given their powers, from plates
Doesn't matter whether Arceus created them directly or not. He only needs to exist to sustain the multiverse with the 18 plates powers . Point 1,kills 3 birds with 1 stone

3. Plus, the only time Arceus got "outsmarted" in JOL is because that goddamn llama was asleep the whole damn time and didn't think for a second they'd betray him, and yeah, the director of the movie mentioned that Arceus with all Plates is omnipotent and omniscient, they literlly had to resot to pis to make the movies happen. It's been retconned in Pokémon, One Called God movie . Because it's mentioned there
A. He only interferes to give hints for Pokémon and humans to solve their own problems. But humans and Pokémon have to solve their own problems
B. He's always watching humans and Pokémon. So good luck Outsmarting him now. Plus, this Arceus is noticeably more vulnerable. Game Arceus won't stand for this BS

4. Places that Arceus has not directly created. Another assumption. He mentioned ultra space is not created by CT. Completely untrue

5. "Arceus doesn't dictate every second and the world has a life of their own" . The only thing Arceus will get from dictating every second is fate manipulation. I don't even know why she included this in her thread. It has nothing to do with whether you get verse powers or not.

6. Dark Matter and everything in PMD exists because of Arceus. That alone shouldn't give anything but everything is connected to that source. It's mentioned in the first opening sequence of PMD. No Arceus =No spirit = No Emotions=No Dark Matter, Sandygast or Bannete and various ghost Pokémon that are born by, and feed on emotions.

7. Finally humans use psychic powers, with Arceus directly giving humans psychic powers potent enough to seal hoopa proving once again, that the the Plates are not even restricted to just Pokémon. For logical reason as each Plate generalizes what it can do. Mind Plate has the essence of psychic energy, completely unrestricted by just Pokémon and encompasses everything with psychic properties.

The plates are literally the concepts of every power that is used in the series. From psychic energy to spiritual powers to magic, fighting spirit, darkness and so on.

They can continue referring me to old thread. I've sent messages to Elizha and DDM. Hopefully I get a reply. They'd give a more reasonable judgment

 

[ImmortalDread]

Gonna have to disagree with resistance to causality tbh, we do not treat simple being unaffected by change in the timeline as it, it might be acausality type 4 or something, but resist to it's manipulation would require someone to be actually directly warping causality rather than simple time travel shenanigans.

As for the actual manipulation, i'm mixed between unconventional and limited, i mean either way probably won't affect anything since is just text before the hax, limited is usually just due to how they activact the power, arceus tecnically is directly controlling causality but he didn't really bring the new changes himself, they were there, he just allowed them to overwrite the previous timeline.

Either limited or limited/unconventional should work

Holy, so you agree with acausality type 4 which is way stronger than acausality type 1 or resistance to causality manipulation? Damn

 

[ImmortalDread]

Direct Statement :

"A Slate that holds the power of all things. When used on a Pokémon, it gains every Type’s powers”

Who's making the assumptions?

And no, we've not discussed anything, I got an in depth translation from Executor_N0 on the day I got banned

Don't want to say something against the thread which will create a whole war in the wiki, but is not the original translation that goes with this?

Imbued with the essence of all creation

Confused about which translation is accurate

 

[Thelastmlg]

Holy, so you agree with acausality type 4 which is way stronger than acausality type 1 or resistance to causality manipulation? Damn

well he already has it so this could be another justification or even a minor upgrade since it means he can allow positive changes to happen him or something

 

[Thelastmlg]

Don't want to say something against the thread which will create a whole war in the wiki, but is not the original translation that goes with this?

Confused about which translation is accurate

the second one IIRC is the english ver, the japanese one would hold more water, the one sniper showed is the newest translation we got by someone on the wiki

 

[Sniper670]

Don't want to say something against the thread which will create a whole war in the wiki, but is not the original translation that goes with this?

Confused about which translation is accurate

The Original Version goes with Essence of all creation, and we can still use that and it won't change the meaning

Breaking down each Plate, each plate holds the essence of a Type that Pokémon use. For instance mind Plate holds the essence of psychic energy, and so on. With all these combined, is why the Legend Plate has the essence of everything. Simply put....

It is because all the Pokémon powers are being granted them by the plates that its mentioned can use the power of every Type.