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idk, im having a decent time talking about pokemon while grinding in masters. Cant speak for anyone else tho.Drite77 said:
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Pokémon General Discussion Thread Gen VIII: Dragon keeps editing the title
- Thread starter Bobsican
- Start date
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Still, it shouldnt change the point. Xerneas's 703 Zettaton feat is passive without battling and is so casual that it is not even funny. And it constantly does this feat as its the reason the planet doesnt shoot into the sun in the first place.
It doing something much stronger while actually battling instead shouldnt be unbelieveable. And the only legendaries who'd scale to it would be legendaries that are higher on the totem pole than Xerneas, which supports Lunala even more.
It doing something much stronger while actually battling instead shouldnt be unbelieveable. And the only legendaries who'd scale to it would be legendaries that are higher on the totem pole than Xerneas, which supports Lunala even more.
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My dude, almost a million times higher than anything else any other legend not named necro. And it aint even a feat to itself It's a move. The difference is actually larger then that of a normal human breathing and that of punching a wall.
As stated above, much lower feats got thrown out for outlier because it was only a handful of times higher than the previous ultra casual feat.
As stated above, much lower feats got thrown out for outlier because it was only a handful of times higher than the previous ultra casual feat.
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It doesn't really matter much since most of the 5-B legendaries aren't even 5-B because of feats but because of pure scaling. Rayquaza, Deoxys, and Xerneas are the only 5-Bs who start the scaling chain because of feats, and Xerneas's is the only one that matters for the upper tier legendaries.
And is the context of those feats the same as here? Remember, treat things on a case by case basis.
And is the context of those feats the same as here? Remember, treat things on a case by case basis.
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Someone explain what's going on?
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It matters greatly Kukui. The highest 5-B feat is that of Xerneas, if moonblast cant scale to it, then the rest dont matter. Im aware the rest dont have feats, but they scale because they fought those that do. Not really sure what yor point is.
You mean like feats like breathing? Existing? Etc? Yep. But then again, I've never actually seen a any feat that's over 800000x get used over the previous highest feat. Ever. Unless there's multiple feats of that nature, usually like 3.
You mean like feats like breathing? Existing? Etc? Yep. But then again, I've never actually seen a any feat that's over 800000x get used over the previous highest feat. Ever. Unless there's multiple feats of that nature, usually like 3.
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Upgrading Xerneas 800,000x via moon moving an thoe that scale. Like I'd get it and would probably agree if it wasnt almost a million times higher.The real cal howard said:
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>Gen 8 has too many problems.
>Gives one issue.
Let's not bring this #BringBackNationalDex bullshit here.
>Gives one issue.
Let's not bring this #BringBackNationalDex bullshit here.
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You missed my point. My point was that it doesnt really matter if its greatly above the previous feat because the feat that is getting replaced will just adjust the scaling and it would scale to pokemon who would scale to mon that scale to Lunala, who does the same thing. So it would fit just fine. Especially since there is no reason why Xerneas can't scale to the move when the lower feat is again, something unbelievebaly casual and is a feat Xerneas doesn't even do in battle. Where as Moonblast is a battle move that would require Xerneas to actually use some of its battling strength.
Different verse's, different contexts. Thats all I can say for this second point.
Different verse's, different contexts. Thats all I can say for this second point.
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Well cool, what Pokemon actually scale to Lunala then. If you can write a list with concrete proof of why pokemon in question scale to Lunala then yeah ok.
But Xerneas aint Lunala, just because Lunala would be upgraded, doesnt mean Xerneas would for the same reason. Once again it doesnt matter if it's casual if the difference is almost a million times, you're greatly underestimating how big a number that acually is.
Same contexts but ok.
But Xerneas aint Lunala, just because Lunala would be upgraded, doesnt mean Xerneas would for the same reason. Once again it doesnt matter if it's casual if the difference is almost a million times, you're greatly underestimating how big a number that acually is.
Same contexts but ok.
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Ive said what needed to be said. Write up a scaling chart for those that scale to Lunala. If you can give proof that certain pokemon scale to lunala i'd agree to those scaling.
I disagree with scaling Xerneas to moon feats though unless it scales to lunala, it'd be fine if the jump wasnt that lage, maybe a few dozen or so but still, almost a million? That's a bit much.
I disagree with scaling Xerneas to moon feats though unless it scales to lunala, it'd be fine if the jump wasnt that lage, maybe a few dozen or so but still, almost a million? That's a bit much.
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To check, what Necro is Zygarde fighting?
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Ok, if he's fighting U-Necro and he isnt straight up casually tossed aside or even killed.
We can scale him to that, maybe backscale Zygarde 50% and Mega Mewtwo to around half.
We can scale him to that, maybe backscale Zygarde 50% and Mega Mewtwo to around half.
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Are you certai about that, especially given how it straight up gives percentages (and the fact mewtwo already has a 4-B feat).
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Well 50% Zygarde was stated to be slightly weaker than Xerneas and Yveltal while Perfect Zygarde completely exceeds them in power and was shown to be able to restrain the combined powers of the Light Trio in the latest chapter. And a single member of the Light Trio could one shot dozens of Ultra Beasts all of which are considered comparable to 50% Zygarde.
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I guess yeah, that checks out.
Although Mewtwo still has a 4-B feat, in a weakened state, why isnt that used at all?
Although Mewtwo still has a 4-B feat, in a weakened state, why isnt that used at all?
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Ultra Necro > Dusk/Dawn Wings Necro > (for now) > Perfect Zygarde > Base Necro > Lunala/Solgaleo > Tapu >= Sivally > Ultra Beasts > Yveltal/Xerneas > 50% Zygarde > Mega Mewtwo. Giving a brief scaling chain because this is exactly what is accepted as of now. High 5-A fits just fine.Chariot190 said:
You still havent given a reason why Xerneas wouldnt scale to the move. I dont care how much bigger Moonblast would be from Xerneas's passive feat, you can't use casual feats as an argument for something being an outlier. Especially when the feat is performed by Xerneas using no battling strength whatsoever, unlike Moonlight or Moonblast.
Same contexts? Give examples then because your not helping your point by saying there are and not giving examples.
Im going out for now but I will come back to argue this later.
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IDk dude, why doesnt sylveon scale to the move? Probably because it's a tremoundous amount higher than anything ever shown capable of it, especially when it aint even an actual feat performed by it, it's a move you're assuming can be applied to it when we've never actually seen it use it.
And according to Peter, the gap between Perfect Zygarde and 50% arent a few >, it's way to much to even consider backscaling. As such I find your list dubious. If we cant backscale from U-Necro to perfect zygarde because even the light trio can ohko things that are around on par with xerneas. Then yeah, dont know about that.
And according to Peter, the gap between Perfect Zygarde and 50% arent a few >, it's way to much to even consider backscaling. As such I find your list dubious. If we cant backscale from U-Necro to perfect zygarde because even the light trio can ohko things that are around on par with xerneas. Then yeah, dont know about that.
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>Dk dude, why doesnt sylveon scale to the move? Probably because it's a tremoundous amount higher than anything ever shown capable of it, especially when it aint even an actual feat performed by it, it's a move you're assuming can be applied to it when we've never actually seen it use it.
Because its not just about being "way above" the mons paygrade. Any non-legendary scaling to the move would be an outlier because they would be put much above legendaries. Which is obviously bullshit. Xerneas scaling to the move doesnt put it higher or change its place in the scaling chain whatsoever, it adjusts it. It simply upgrades all of the mon that would reach back to Lunala, who can also do the same thing. Which is why it would fit. So false equivalence here.
>And according to Peter, the gap between Perfect Zygarde and 50% arent a few >, it's way to much to even consider backscaling.
Peter is wrong, but this is a different conversation to have to be dealt with at another time.
Because its not just about being "way above" the mons paygrade. Any non-legendary scaling to the move would be an outlier because they would be put much above legendaries. Which is obviously bullshit. Xerneas scaling to the move doesnt put it higher or change its place in the scaling chain whatsoever, it adjusts it. It simply upgrades all of the mon that would reach back to Lunala, who can also do the same thing. Which is why it would fit. So false equivalence here.
>And according to Peter, the gap between Perfect Zygarde and 50% arent a few >, it's way to much to even consider backscaling.
Peter is wrong, but this is a different conversation to have to be dealt with at another time.
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How am I wrong? You also put the Ultra Beasts above Xerneas and Yveltal in your scaling chain and Lunala straight up one shot dozens of them with one attack while Perfect Zygarde restrained Necrozma after he absorbed both Solgaleo and Lunala's light. And even if Necrozma didn't get stronger after absorbing their light Perfect Zygarde would still be stronger than Base Necrozma who is stronger Lunala who can one shot a whole bunch of Ultra Beasts at once.
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Because as I said in the last thread, Perfect Zygarde isnt the only form to be on the level of the Ultra Beasts so I disagree with you. But this isnt the time or place to deal with that so im ignoring that right now to discuss Xerneas.
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Not quite a false equivalence when it isnt a feat done by a pokemon, it's a move that all pokemon can learn, you're arbitraily assuming it can apply to one thing but not oher things because it fits with your preconceived notion of a list. While it's true no non legend should be put above a legend with very few exceptions, you also cant assume that a move that's already extremely dubious to begin with can be applied to something just because it wouldnt screw with the tier list, excluding the fact it's over 800,000x its best feat, casual or not, it's never shown anything close to it, it does screw with the list because now it's scaling to the same thing lunala is scaling to, and when I say same thing, I mean the literal same thing, despite Lunala being >>>>>>> and can ohko it, yet it's scaling to the same feat.
If peter is wrong explain why.
If peter is wrong explain why.
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What even is Lunala's feat? Has it ever moved the moon?
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Cal asking the real questions. I want this answer as well.
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Kukui wants to scale it to moonblast and moonlight. Im fine with that, kinda. As long as somewhere in lore it states it can in fact move the moon. But Xerneas? Nah dude.
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What about Moonblast and Moonlight is Tier 5?
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Then again, why are you asking the questions? It's all been stated directly in the thread, even has links and explanations as to why. I dont agree with a good chunk of it though.
And why Casper.
And why Casper.
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idk ask cal, he calced it. Link above.Dragonmasterxyz said:
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Didn't Cal treat that as a joke?
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For normal pokemon yeah, Kukui wants to scale it to Lunala and Xerneas, legends, Lunala I can understand why he would given the lore. Xerneas though has so much wrong with it, especially scaling it to the exact same feat the thing that can ohko it casually is scaling to so yeah. Also 800000x Xerneas feat, casual or not, is a tad much.
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Wait, if something is considered a joke calc, why would we use said joke calc for other Pokemon. I kinda don't agree with anyone scaling.
