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Pokemon Cleanup CRT + Ash upgrade + team rocket trio upgrade

I agree wuth this, especially with the Pokémon clean-up page

Also, I'm pretty sure Ash's Greninja should get a profile of its own given it almost on par with Alain's Mega Charizard X, who managed to fight against 50% Zygarde and weakened it enough for Team Flare to capture it.

Alain's Charizard should get his own page too
 
I believe that that would be a massive outlier, otherwise Pikachu would scale too as he had consistently fought opponents such as Melmetal, Guzzlord, Tapu Koko, Buzzwole and more. Problem being this was just PIS/Outliers and Greninja is even more so.
 
Arceus0x said:
I believe that that would be a massive outlier, otherwise Pikachu would scale too as he had consistently fought opponents such as Melmetal, Guzzlord, Tapu Koko, Buzzwole and more. Problem being this was just PIS/Outliers and Greninja is even more so.
Click to expand...
Pikachu already scales to beating Tapu Koko. This is why he's 3-C/High 3-A

Also, it was clear Greninja and Charizard are far above any other Mega apart from Diantha's Mega Gardevoir and Steven's Mega Metagross

Also, all of these were enough to defeat Lysandre with his Zygarde robot (I think that was a robot. Didn't watched XYZ in years)
 
1. Greninja struggled agains the black zygarde plant thing and Zygarde one-shot it

2. Pikachu is only 3-C, likely high 3-A with his 10mil volt thunderbolt
 
Yeah legendaries are weird in anime.

The one thing i think i would want to do but can't cause Kukui will use Judgement on me if i do, i would personally nerf Darkrai or split his profile, the canon one having tier 5-B at best.
I feel like he's been constantly portrayed as weaker than what we have in reality. The one in Mystery dungeon got one-shot by Palkia, never actually had a proper fight with it. In the anime it was never portrayed as anything godly, just a mon who lives on an island, not to mention that the darkrai in the tobias fight was compared with the darkrai in the latest episodes and Ash only thought it was a tough pokemon, like the one he took down before.
So the only real feats is suriving attacks from Palkia and Dialga avatars but just barely, might have fused two dimensions in a spin-off game. Nothing else that is truly serious.
 
Alright. I'll concede on Greninja

He should still be High 7-A+ or 6-C though by one shotting Sawyer's Mega Sceptile with his Ultimate Water Shuriken, despite Sceptile doubly resisting water moves (and thus recieving only a quarter of the damage). Mega Sceptile already has High 7-A durability so Greninja's Ultimate Attack is more than 4 times above it

This scales to Alain's Mega Charizard X since it defeated Ash-Greninja. Steven and Diantha's Mega Metagross and Gardevoir respectively also scale for Gardevoir matching Ash Greninja for a while before getting overwhelmed (Ash only lost because he and Greninja passed out from the strain of using the Ash Greninja form before they mastered it), and for Steven, it's for fighting equally with Mega Charizard X, although Charizard likely became stronger in the league
 
yet again, Greninja didn't one-shot it, they already clashed beforehand and damage was dealt. If we give him 6-C then Pikachu should be even higher as XYZ Pikachu was about as strong as Ash-Greninja (took out two pseudo-legendaries on his own before weakening Charizard a bit and finally going down) and Pikachu in SaM and Journeys has grown exponentially, where he could actually fight opponents he couldn't harm before.
 
Arceus0x said:
yet again, Greninja didn't one-shot it, they already clashed beforehand and damage was dealt. If we give him 6-C then Pikachu should be even higher as XYZ Pikachu was about as strong as Ash-Greninja (took out two pseudo-legendaries on his own before weakening Charizard a bit and finally going down) and Pikachu in SaM and Journeys has grown exponentially, where he could actually fight opponents he couldn't harm before.
Click to expand...
None of Alain's other Pokémon even hold a candle to Charizard. It was very clear that Charizard is far above all his other Pokémon

And in fact, Charizard defeated XYZ Pikachu easily and shook off a super-effective thunderbolt from him
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
None of Alain's other Pokémon even hold a candle to Charizard. It was very clear that Charizard is far above all his other Pokémon

And in fact, Charizard defeated XYZ Pikachu easily and shook off a super-effective thunderbolt from him
Click to expand...
After pikachu was eexhausted by two fights in a row that is
 
Arceus0x said:
How strong is the mindhax in that context?
Click to expand...
Don't we have an mind hax scaling for pokémons? If not then in the show the beheeyem were affecting inhabitants of an entire town both pokémon and humans so at bare minimum it has to have been at least 50+
 
Arceus0x said:
Yeah legendaries are weird in anime.

The one thing i think i would want to do but can't cause Kukui will use Judgement on me if i do, i would personally nerf Darkrai or split his profile, the canon one having tier 5-B at best.
I feel like he's been constantly portrayed as weaker than what we have in reality. The one in Mystery dungeon got one-shot by Palkia, never actually had a proper fight with it. In the anime it was never portrayed as anything godly, just a mon who lives on an island, not to mention that the darkrai in the tobias fight was compared with the darkrai in the latest episodes and Ash only thought it was a tough pokemon, like the one he took down before.
So the only real feats is suriving attacks from Palkia and Dialga avatars but just barely, might have fused two dimensions in a spin-off game. Nothing else that is truly serious.
Click to expand...
Eh wasn't Darkrai able to keep up with Dialga and Palkia in the anime? He was also able to do the same thing in the manga adaptation
 
Rez said:
Don't we have an mind hax scaling for pokémons? If not then in the show the beheeyem were affecting inhabitants of an entire town both pokémon and humans so at bare minimum it has to have been at least 50+
Click to expand...
the problem is who scales to whom. Mewtwo clearly scales above drowsy, problem is the Drowsy was somewhat amplified using a machine. So idk if we can simply say that Beheeyem scales or weaker. I guess Ash's potency is 50+ then though i may check out the episode.
Does anyone know the number of the episode and the series?
 
Yeah I wasn't gonna take part in this originally, but then I saw the infamous "Outlier!" argument thrown around for Ash and the TR trio here and decided to play the game.

Absolute no to Ash's feats being outliers. TR may be a bit questionable (but even then I agree with their upgrades for the same reasons personally speaking), but people here need to stop acting like humans in Pokemon don't have consistent superhuman feats that are, to an extent at the bare minimum, comparable to some pokemon. Because that's absolutely the case, and Ash isn't any different. Ash if anything is one of the best textbook examples of this trend in the series when he's someone who does some of the more extreme practical training with his pokemon that the typical trainer doesn't do (not just tanking his pokemons attacks but even doing things like making himself a moving target for his Staravia to master Brave Bird in the DP series). Ash has consistent superhuman feats, there's no reason to think they're not legit. PIS and Pokemon come together on a lot of things, but superhuman Ash is not one of them.

Same thing for TR and the OP already reiterated why. Their blast offs happen all the time. LITERALLY ALL THE TIME. There's nothing inconsistent about that. And even with taking the "gag feat!" excuse at face value, so what? They still happen. If things like Tier 4 Popeyes or Eustace Bagge can remain on this site without anyone batting an eye, a constant case of Tier 7 Team Rocket shouldn't be a shocker to anyone on here at all.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Yeah I wasn't gonna take part in this originally, but then I saw the infamous "Outlier!" argument thrown around for Ash and the TR trio here and decided to play the game.

Absolute no to Ash's feats being outliers. TR may be a bit questionable (but even then I agree with their upgrades for the same reasons personally speaking), but people here need to stop acting like humans in Pokemon don't have consistent superhuman feats that are, to an extent at the bare minimum, comparable to some pokemon. Because that's absolutely the case, and Ash isn't any different. Ash if anything is one of the best textbook examples of this trend in the series when he's someone who does some of the more extreme practical training with his pokemon that the typical trainer doesn't do (not just tanking his pokemons attacks but even doing things like making himself a moving target for his Staravia to master Brave Bird in the DP series). Ash has consistent superhuman feats, there's no reason to think they're not legit. PIS and Pokemon come together on a lot of things, but superhuman Ash is not one of them.

Same thing for TR and the OP already reiterated why. Their blast offs happen all the time. LITERALLY ALL THE TIME. There's nothing inconsistent about that. And even with taking the "gag feat!" excuse at face value, so what? They still happen. If things like Tier 4 Popeyes or Eustace Bagge can remain on this site without anyone batting an eye, a constant case of Tier 7 Team Rocket shouldn't be a shocker to anyone on here at all.
Click to expand...
The argument of PIS turned out to be bait and the user who said it now agrees so dont worry.

This does solidify my argument even more though.

What interests me more is the team rocket mech scaling and if you have any suggested pages that need revisions.
 
So for now :

Agree : Lou_change, theultimate5105, Psychomaster35, Shizuka, ProfessorKuki4life, Gilad_Hyperstar, Rez, Adem_Warlock69, Gohanblanco217,

Disagree :

Neutral :

Right?
 
I agree as well.

I’d also like to point out something- Shouldn’t TRs AP be higher? They’re all shown to consistently be able to damage each other (such as Meowth scratching them all to shut them up, Jessie hurting James due to his comments on multiple occasions, Jessie knocking Meowth into a Wall, good lord a lot of them come from Jessie lol), Jessie caught that Seviper she used to have with her bare hands, and it’s a running Gag throughout at least 3 seasons (that’s all I remember lol) that James gets attacked by his own Pokemon all the time.

I would provide scans, but I don’t have them readily accessible lol
 
Daddybrawl said:
I agree as well.

I’d also like to point out something- Shouldn’t TRs AP be higher? They’re all shown to consistently be able to damage each other (such as Meowth scratching them all to shut them up, Jessie hurting James due to his comments on multiple occasions, Jessie knocking Meowth into a Wall, good lord a lot of them come from Jessie lol), Jessie caught that Seviper she used to have with her bare hands, and it’s a running Gag throughout at least 3 seasons (that’s all I remember lol) that James gets attacked by his own Pokemon all the time.

I would provide scans, but I don’t have them readily accessible lol
Click to expand...
Ik what you are talking about but i feel like meowth is likely 7-A by default (he one-slashed a Persian) while J&Js cases are more scarce as they mostly slightly hurt or counter pokemon every once in a while and Meowth isn't consistent enough to scale their Ap to them
 
Arceus0x said:
Ik what you are talking about but i feel like meowth is likely 7-A by default (he one-slashed a Persian) while J&Js cases are more scarce as they mostly slightly hurt or counter pokemon every once in a while and Meowth isn't consistent enough to scale their Ap to them
Click to expand...
I think Meowth has some other instances of harming/beating 7-A Pokemon, iirc.
 
Honestly Team Rocket blasting off has happened 900+ times. Gag or not it's too damn consistent to simply ignore.
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Team Rocket constantly damage each other, who all has the 900+ 7-A durability feats from all the times they have been blasted off

There's no reason why their AP won't scale, gag or not
Click to expand...
Hmm maybe you do have a point. Could you send in some links and scans?
 
I might be a bit late, but I agree with everything here. Ash and TR aren’t even the only humans that should scale to 7-A+ mons
 
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