Po vs Riolu - Kung Fu Animals

[frissen]

It's not chi manipulation though. Tai Lung doesn't use chi in his attack, but the effect of his attack is a full body paralysis.

The effect of his attack is a full body paralysis by blocking the flow of chi. I think it's a lot more reasonable to assume that Po resists chi blocking or to assume that Po can move without chi to some extent then to assume Po resists paralysis on some other level.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

It's not chi manipulation though. Tai Lung doesn't use chi in his attack, but the effect of his attack is a full body paralysis.


It's not. Otherwise both of those moves are valid things that Riolu can do, just remember that Riolu can't use Detect consecutively.

swords dfance

 

[Imaginym]

Riolu CAN Swords Dance, but given Po while they're almost equal in speed otherwise (Mach 0.90 Riolu vs Mach 0.91 Po.), Po is more than twice as fast in Combat Speed (Mach 2.2), & arguably more skill.
What if he just blocked? Or interrupted Riolu's attack with one of his own, since he's more than twice as fast at attacking? Could he grab?

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Agility can be used to double speed too. I don't see how Po counters rock smash, copycat copying his movements, detect seeing through attacks, quick attack increasing speed, quick guard for forcefield which blocks normal attacks in the anime episode The Beartic Mountain Feud!
Or rock smash lowering defense, along with Screech. Too many win cons, even if Riolu won't start with them

 

[Imaginym]

Agility can be used to double speed too. I don't see how Po counters rock smash,

If I understand right, Riolu would have an almost 2x movement speed advantage there, but Po would still have better Combat Speed & arguably skill to dodge, so dodging with better combat speed & skill? (Plus, I'm not sure Rock Smash is something Riolu is likely to go for.)

copycat copying his movements,

I hate saying this, but Skill? (& higher combat speed.)

detect seeing through attacks,

Auto-dodging is good, but what are likely scenarios where it creates a useful opportunity for Riolu? Which of Po's moves have the best chance of Riolu having something to capitalize on if Riolu dodges?

quick attack increasing speed,

Not the strongest move, but it is an option, yes.

quick guard for forcefield which blocks normal attacks in the anime episode The Beartic Mountain Feud!

That's good, but similar issues to Detect; What good is Defense if it doesn't create an opportunity to advance your win condition? MAYBE there's a Stamina benefit, but I'd assume that's dubious.

Or rock smash lowering defense, along with Screech. Too many win cons, even if Riolu won't start with them

Do Riolu use those often in-character? Will it use them often or earlier enough that it won't be too beaten up already to overcome Po's Skill, &, if there's already been some ongoing "damage racing", will it be enough to overcome presumably having lost stamina/being damaged a bunch?

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Riolu FRA

 

[Arceus0x]

Riolu are pretty persistent so he definitely has time to set up a bit, not to mention agility can be used during movement. Po would need to land many hits for Riolu to get KOd however if Riolu counters the speed with agility he would overcome po, not to mention quick attack being a thing.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Fighting type moves are what Riolu uses. They all naturally learn martial arts from birth and grow more powerful afterwards, Riolus are a lot more skilled than your average fighter. IDK what Po has. And I still don't see a single win con for him

 

[GyroNutz]

I don't see how Po counters rock smash

Dodging/blocking. Also Rock Smash is a very weak move, and it only somewhat lowers defence half the time it successfully lands.

quick guard for forcefield which blocks normal attacks in the anime episode The Beartic Mountain Feud!

Can confirm this, but I'm not sure how valid that is seeing as it's consistently treated in the games as only being able to block priority moves. Mystery Dungeon depicts it as protecting from "faraway", or ranged, moves, which would explain Mienfoo blocking the Beartics' Icy Wind. If we use this interpretation, then it won't help as Po only uses CQC moves. Also, Quick Guard prevents Detect from being used in succession.

The effect of his attack is a full body paralysis by blocking the flow of chi. I think it's a lot more reasonable to assume that Po resists chi blocking or to assume that Po can move without chi to some extent then to assume Po resists paralysis on some other level.

Chi is the life force of all beings, you'd need proof to suggest that Po can move without chi in KFP1. And again the level is sufficient here, the only methodology we know that Force Palm works through is a vague blue shockwave that inhibits the target's movement sometimes, whereas we know for a fact that Tai Lung's nerve attack would induce a full-body paralysis that completely immobilizes the target. Po should resist.

Riolu FRA

You've already voted. But just to open up some more discussion, since you said Po has no win cons:

• Po was able to create his own martial arts style, the Panda style, and has trained under Shifu, the greatest kung fu teacher in China. He's trained to the point where he's on par with the other Furious Five members in terms of skill, just less experienced. He should take the skill advantage here.
• Po has the Wuxi Finger Hold, which can BFR Riolu to the Spirit World by holding Riolu's finger and flexing his own pinky.
• Po has a severe lifting strength advantage which no amount of amping will allow Riolu to overcome.

As you've demonstrated, Riolu is more versatile than Po and has the tools to beat Po if he uses them correctly. But is he skilled and smart enough to use these tools correctly? Can he prevent Po from using his own win cons?

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump, lets continue the discussion

 

[Peppersalt43]

Uh, bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Dodging/blocking. Also Rock Smash is a very weak move, and it only somewhat lowers defence half the time it successfully lands.


Can confirm this, but I'm not sure how valid that is seeing as it's consistently treated in the games as only being able to block priority moves. Mystery Dungeon depicts it as protecting from "faraway", or ranged, moves, which would explain Mienfoo blocking the Beartics' Icy Wind. If we use this interpretation, then it won't help as Po only uses CQC moves. Also, Quick Guard prevents Detect from being used in succession.


Chi is the life force of all beings, you'd need proof to suggest that Po can move without chi in KFP1. And again the level is sufficient here, the only methodology we know that Force Palm works through is a vague blue shockwave that inhibits the target's movement sometimes, whereas we know for a fact that Tai Lung's nerve attack would induce a full-body paralysis that completely immobilizes the target. Po should resist.


You've already voted. But just to open up some more discussion, since you said Po has no win cons:

• Po was able to create his own martial arts style, the Panda style, and has trained under Shifu, the greatest kung fu teacher in China. He's trained to the point where he's on par with the other Furious Five members in terms of skill, just less experienced. He should take the skill advantage here.
• Po has the Wuxi Finger Hold, which can BFR Riolu to the Spirit World by holding Riolu's finger and flexing his own pinky.
• Po has a severe lifting strength advantage which no amount of amping will allow Riolu to overcome.

As you've demonstrated, Riolu is more versatile than Po and has the tools to beat Po if he uses them correctly. But is he skilled and smart enough to use these tools correctly? Can he prevent Po from using his own win cons?

Yes, Riolu simply jumps out of Po's range for his Finger Hold. If theyre both close to each other, the paralysis which works differently from pressure points would simply immobilise Po

 

[GyroNutz]

Again, Po resists Riolu's paralysis inducement, and it's not potent enough to immobilise opponents anyway.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump, lets continue the discussion

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump