PMMM AP Changes

[Overlord775]

Currenly PMM's 5-B are rated as such via scaling to fourth timeline Kriemhild being able to destroy the planet, but i think these rating aren't adaquate.

You see, for each time the timeline is reset it gives Madoka an immense power boost, which made her go from 6-C to being comparable to fourth timeline Kriemhild Gretche in only 5 resets

and every PMM 5-B profile scales to Madoka after 100 RESETS

so i think it would be better to rate them Unknow, as rating them at only Planet Level is a serius downplay of the sheer difference between them and the feat (They difference was calced to be above decillion of times).

 

[Overlord775]

bump

 

[Kaltias]

That's why they have the "far higher". I get your point, but at the end of the day it would change virtually nothing.

And at the very least we avoid a bunch of unknowns this way

 

[Overlord775]

We do this for Dark Samus, so we should do the same here

being listed as "Far higher" doesn't even slightly put justice to their actual power

 

[Kaltias]

And we don't do that for Ultron (Marvel Comics) so the point is moot.

And being listed as "Unknown" doesn't either, especially when it still means "ridiculously higher than baseline 5-B".

 

[Overlord775]

Ultron is not even close to the upscale levels of Dark Samus and PMMM

Aand no, arguably they should be more like 3-A

 

[Kaltias]

I mean, yeah, but they don't have feats on that level and there is really no way at all to pinpoint how strong you get after ~100 "exponentially stronger", so there is no real way to determine their AP excluding "a lot higher than baseline 5-B".

 

[Overlord775]

If we cannot determine their AP propelly, then we should put them at Uknow, it's the whole point of that rating

 

[Kaltias]

excluding "a lot higher than baseline 5-B".

^ We do have a baseline to refer to.

At the end of the day I don't care much, it's simply that an actual tier looks better and it basically says the same, and doesn't lead to stuff like people saying that Madoka is 5-B in a thread and 3-C in another one

 

[Overlord775]

"a lot higher than baseline 5-B" means decillion of times above baseline, when the gap between bottom and top of 5-B is only 45.5, and almost everybody threats it like that

 

[Agnaa]

Older profiles seem to do the "Unknown" thing, newer profiles seem to do "At least (tier), likely far higher".

I think the 'at least' and 'far higher' accurately represent that they should be obscenely far above.

 

[Andytrenom]

I think " likely far higher" should be used when theres things suggesting you are a higher tier but there's still reason to believe that maybe you aren't actually too far off from the current rating.

In cases where it's extremely unlikely for you to actually be in the listed tier, I think Unknown should be used instead.

 

[Overlord775]

@Agnaa No other verse as a upscaling as massive as PMMM's (Masadas are getting upgraded to 3-A i think)

I don't think "At least" or "Far Higher" are enought to compensate for the cosmic level they are above that 5-B feat

it's like saying that if the power in a single electron of character is enought to destroy a planet, we should rate that character 5-B instead of Uknown

 

[PrettyFearMachine]

I've seen "Unknow. At least X, likely far higher" being used as well, so I think that should be fine here

 

[Agnaa]

No other verse as a upscaling as massive as PMMM's (Masadas are getting upgraded to 3-A i think)

Probably not, but Shinobu Oshino used to have it for casually almost destroying Antarctica when simply jumping to travel, and has statements of being able to destroy the planet.

 

[Overlord775]

Probably not, but Shinobu Oshino used to have it for casually almost destroying Antarctica when simply jumping to travel, and has statements of being able to destroy the planet.

That's not upscaling, that just a Saitama situation, where the character is always casual and we don't know the actual limits of their power

and planet destroying statement don't mean much without context

 

[Agnaa]

You're right. Considering the situation, Unknown should probably be used.

 

[Andytrenom]

^ We do have a baseline to refer to.

At the end of the day I don't care much, it's simply that an actual tier looks better and it basically says the same, and doesn't lead to stuff like people saying that Madoka is 5-B in a thread and 3-C in another one

If it leads to that, you could just point out the flaw in trying to use the AP of an unknown character as an argument.

 

[Kaltias]

I can't be in every thread where it could possibly come up to point that out though. If the page doesn't cause the issue to begin with it's better.

Regardless, i'm mostly neutral, I just really don't like the idea of having five characters (including the two most iconic ones) with unknown stats when it's avoidable. I get that "it looks bad" isn't really a strong argument but as I explained both unknown and at least 5-B say basically the same anyway.

 

[PrettyFearMachine]

If it leads to what Andy said, it's probably better to change it to Unknow IMO.

 

[Agnaa]

Just to clarify, I don't think they should just be rated Unknown. They should be "Unknow, at least 5-B, likely far higher"

 

[Schnee_One]

Ultron is not even close to the upscale levels of Dark Samus

Yes he very much is.

 

[Schnee_One]

On topic.

I think Unknown at least 5B also makes sense, even if I don't think 5A is really that far off.

 

[Overlord775]

@Kaltias

You could just put the Upscaling Explanation in the profiles

@Schnee

Ultron only upscales to not being damaged by a bunch of 4-B blasts, meanwhile Dark Samus upscales to going from 6-C to low 4-C with near to none Phazon to absorbing a planet worth of Phazon

 

[Schnee_One]

Notice the Unknow part of his profile.

Superior Ultron, has 17,000 bodies created in one month, each one vastly superior to the last.

One body made him jump from 1 Megafoe to stomping a 3B+ character.

 

[Schnee_One]

Anyway, back on topic, this kinda makes me realize there's a bit of an inconsistency between the 3 profiles that have massive upscaling

I can agree that "at least 5B" or "unknown at least 5B" is probably best to not start a riot on upscalibg, (personally prefer the latter) but Dark Samus is left at a straight "unknown" which, honestly I think "Unknown at least X" would be best for all of the profiles to maintain some consistency.

 

[PrettyFearMachine]

Just to clarify, I don't think they should just be rated Unknown. They should be "Unknow, at least 5-B, likely far higher"

I think that's for the better, yes.

 

[Schnee_One]

Same

 

[Andytrenom]

@Kal My point is that if the character is unknown, their AP shouldn't be a point of discussion to begin with, so an argument in the format of "this unknown character wins/loses via having this much AP" should not be something that has an actual reasonable chance of occurring for it to be a concern.

I don't think they do. "At least" means you are above the feat putting you in the tier and "Unknown" means well...that you don't what tier the character is. If the multipliers are so high that they should logically exceed 5-B but that alone isn't enough grounds for a definitive rating, then I definitely think that's more of an unknown case than an at least case.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm against this. We don't give Composite Link something above 4-B even though the FD Mask buffed him from High 6-C to High 4-C. Even the worst DB wanker won't say that SSJG isn't a boost between where Goku was in 4-B to where he was in 3-A. Frankly, I've been having problems with how PMMM's 5-Bs are ranked regardless due to other reasons. Their current tier is more than fine.

 

[Kaltias]

What's the problem with their current ratings?

 

[Schnee_One]

I assume its related to creating the barriers and creation being AP

 

[Kaltias]

That would greatly confuse me because it's the same as, say, Ganondorf's feat except on a smaller scale

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

That's not it. It's that given the intense gap and the exponential jumps, there has to be some sort of an outlier there. Either one, Madoka being 6-C shouldn't be the case and she should straight up be 5-B from first to final timelines, two, the 5-B feat is an outlier, or three, that random jump to 5-B was an anomaly that likely wasn't repeated until the final timeline jump to 2-A (which even then was a result of a wish).

 

[SomebodyData]

That's literally how exponential jumps work.

 

[Kaltias]

That's like saying that Goku had to be 3-A pre-DBS because the jump from 4-B is too big.

Like, Madoka goes from 7-C, to 7-B, to 6-C, to 5-C, then 5-B in four powerups.

Then we simply don't see any version of Madoka till the timeline seen in the anime, we simply know that the loops existed and that each one boosted her immensely

Also, first timeline Madoka is weaker than Sayaka

 

[Agnaa]

I'm against this. We don't give Composite Link something above 4-B even though the FD Mask buffed him from High 6-C to High 4-C.

This thread isn't about giving Madoka something above 5-B, it's about giving them an "Unknown" before the rating to represent how unsure we are about the rating, and that it's a mere baseline.

Why would Composite Link even get it in that case? How is that analogous at all? One multiplier which may not stack with another power boost is different from 100 multipliers which we know stack.

 

[Schnee_One]

Also the difference between High 6C and High 4C encompasses such an insanely small part of 4B and is only 1 multiplier its not even relevant to begin win.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

The point was completely missed on what I was saying.

If we have a choice between unknown and not unknown, definitely go with the latter. Going any higher than planet level severely highballs a character who hasn't shown anything close until she becomes God with a capital G.

 

[Schnee_One]

?

So you agree with the IOP?