Phoenix Wright vs Makoto Naegi, in Class Trial

[Xanxussama1010]

I think that this should be fun.

Scenario: Junko want to quickly get rid of Makoto. So she does some plans by seducing Makoto and some boys to peek on girls when they're bathing. After that, she catches Phoenix to Hope Peak and tells that he need to make Makoto get votes in Class Trial from guilt of peeping. Otherwise, Phoenix will get an execution.

Ok, for the rules.

Fight at Class Trial. Phoenix, Makoto and his friends who still alive at that time join in this Class Trial.

Both Makoto and Phoenix have 3 hours of times before Class Trails start.

Phoenix carry his Magatama and a Fingerprint powder in this case.

If Makoto gets most of the votes for guilt of peeping, he will get an execution. Otherwise, Phoenix will get an execution instead.

Everyone needs to vote. Otherwise, they will get an execution.

That's all. Trial all rise!!

 

[Listentomyrhytm]

Due to Phoenix being Phoenix, Makoto gets executed but due to his luck the execution fails lmao.

 

[BakiHanma18]

I have to say Naegi. Naegi has home field advantage and is more familiar with the "Class Trial" system, Naegi is a better investigator, Phoenix is a superior debator, but Naegi walks into this with more advantages. Finally, even if he loses, SN Luck stops the execution (if the execution can't be stopped due to the rules of this match, in place of stopping the execution, SN Luck makes Phoenix forget a damning argument/piece of evidence and Naegi still wins).

 

[Ted_Ed]

Non canon, but Phoenix quickly adapted to the witch trials on PLvAA.

and in the latest game, i think he also adapted to the prediction system they had on the Kurain country.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Non canon, but Phoenix quickly adapted to the witch trials on PLvAA.
and in the latest game, i think he also adapted to the prediction system they had on the Kurain country.

If that's the case, at the very least, Makoto starts with two advantages, then it quickly becomes 1-1, but SN Luck still makes it practically impossible for Phoenix to win

 

[ElixirBlue]

Makoto FRA.

Class Trails, by nature, are more opinionated than the structured trails Phoenix Wright is a master at. Makoto is known to be great influencer with evidence while Phoenix most often than not, relies on the police and arrogant prosecutor's "mercy" to get through trails.

 

[Ted_Ed]

When has Wright relied on the police

 

[ElixirBlue]

Mr. Gumshoe, thank you for giving me the autopsy report even though I wasn't supposed to have it yet, also thank you for not kicking me out of an crime scene. Oh, also, do you remember those times where you went out of your way to gather evidence at the last moment? I appreciate it, bro.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Yeah the only way I see Phoenix taking this is winning the trial (which isn't likely FRA), AND Naegi's luck has to fail (which is even more unlikely)

 

[Xanxussama1010]

Update votes

Igiari!: 0

Sore wa chigau yo!: 2 (BakiHanma, ElixirBlue)

 

[Ionliosite]

Luck FRA

 

[Psychomaster35]

Isnt Phoenix more experienced, though? Hes had experience in taking down prosecutors who have at least 4+ years of being undefeated (the highest being 40). Makoto is still just a kid, thus, is less experienced. True, Phoenix only lost ONCE, but that was on purpose. I may vote Phoenix on this one.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Like I pointed out, Phoenix's experience came from a structured court system, with rules and proceeds. Phoenix is getting a lot more help compared to Makoto from the system.

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

Makoto's Supernatural Luck is gonna help him win this trial. Voting Makoto FRA

 

[Psychomaster35]

Regardless, Phoenix is most likely to learn from the evidences even if he doesnt have any, since they are turned in for all sides to see and learn to draw conclusions. Class Trials are more of debates than they are trying to convict a person of the crime. Hell, Phoenix even won a trial WHILE HAVING AMNESIA.

And regarding investigations, welp. Phoenix may have had some outside help from other people, but at some times, he is alone, showing he can at least be experienced in investigating alone.

Furthermore, Phoenix HAS had his trials seemingly going hopeless for him to make it seem like he is losing, but eventually, he manages to turn that around at the last second to have him win, because he thinks the most logical explanation that comes to him. Pretty much through the "turn your thinking around" scenarios. Bluffing, while seemingly bad, is actually useful because it helps him buy out more time to think.

 

[Listentomyrhytm]

Phoenix has really high chances of winning on the trial but Naegi's Luck may help him win or avoid getting executed. So incon lol.

 

[ElixirBlue]

@Psychomaster35 but Phoenix doesn't have the charisma compare to Makoto. In those class trials, especially the final trial, Makoto uses his influencing power to change the class trail options in his favor.

Phoenix can do dish out all the evidence he wants but if it's based on a buff, he will get challenged. And Phoenix doesn't handle being challenged on his buffs well so he will lose influence, since no one will specifically be looking at Phoenix for the answer to the trail.

"Influence is essentially the protagonist's "health bar" during class trials, and it becomes depleted if they select wrong answers or make mistakes." It's the description for the game mechanics but also what the participants need to have their voice heard as they argue for their lives.

 

[ElixirBlue]

In a class trial, no one is specifically looking at Phoenix and Makoto for the answers. The ones with the most influence gets their voice heard. Or rather, have their voice taken more seriously.

 

[Ted_Ed]

Wright does have experience being a damn good bluffer and getting people to slip up and say something they should not have.

 

[ElixirBlue]

But also Wright gets laughed at a lot and the only reason people still listen to him because he's the lawyer specifically for the defendant.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Wright may have the advantage of being better in a trial, but he would have to adapt to the new system, and Makoto would not. Makoto, as the Ultimate Hope, has insane Emphatic Manipulation, and Wright does not. Finally, with Makoto's Ulitmate Luck, the chances of him being executed or found guilty are slim with that alone

 

[Ted_Ed]

I .ean, if i was a 16 or so year old and i was trapped with other 16 year olds and an ADULT, experienced Lawyer, id trust him.

 

[BakiHanma18]

I .ean, if i was a 16 or so year old and i was trapped with other 16 year olds and an ADULT, experienced Lawyer, id trust him.

A very shallow trust vs Emphatic Manipulation? I definitely think they're going to believe Naegi 10/10

 

[Xanxussama1010]

Igiari!: 1 (Psychomaster)

Sore wa chigau yo!: 4 (BakiHanma, ElixirBlue, Ionliosite, MrDrProfessorPatricio)

Incon: 1 (Listentomyrhytm)

 

[Psychomaster35]

I mean, a Class trial is pretty much like discussion, like how you talk from your point of view of how you witnessed the crime. A Court trial on the other hand is rather more serious when it comes to debates as it is for the law. And knowing that, Phoenix SHOULD be able to outsmart them through clever thinking.

So, Class Trials are pretty much everyone talking? Welp, that plays EXACTLY similar to Court Trials. Hell, this is EXACTLY why Wright gets recorded Testimonies. To show it to the new witness to contradict their statement. And if everyone is in one room? Thats easier, so we can get it from everyone.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Talking about the OP. What could happen in the discussion:

It wasn't just Makoto peeping. There some other guys too with him. If Phoenix used any evidence laying around, the only ones who would leave physical evidence is Hifumi. Makoto doesn't carry around physical evidence and there is no court lab to get DNA, which is used for murders. Hifumi is always carrying around his backpack and could very well have left it behind. If Phoenix probes him, Hifumi will crumble and revealed that he did, and the rest of the class would be satisfied that they found the culprit.

Even if Phoenix wanted to continue the trail to pin it on Makoto, have Hifumi mention Yasuhiro Hagakure and Makoto, the one with physical evidence has already been pointed out and Makoto is safe. Besides, with Makoto's Emphatic manipulation, no one would believe Makoto would do that and would think Hifumi was trying to pass the blame on someone else.

Good old defensive luck.

 

[Psychomaster35]

Though, he would also try to have Hifumi admit that he was not alone, and that would be through the fingerprints. And the girls bathing wouldve probably heard noises, so they would say that there had to have been more than one person there.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Actually, the girls had no idea. They would still have no idea if it wasn't for this trial.

 

[Ted_Ed]

I mean, has any of you read the lord of the flies?

 

[BakiHanma18]

Yeah, I think this is blatantly clear that Naegi takes it due Emphatic manipulation, SN Luck, and being better adjusted to Class Trials

 

[Buttersamuri]

Luck doesn't really help here. His luck is more saving him in the scene of the moment from life threatening situations. But he has been "proven" guilty of a crime before. And simply got lucky by escaping. But his luck isn't that potent to effect the trail. Phoenix raw experience, facing harder and more complicate cases, in a messed up system. Phoenix should be able to prove his case

And remember. Phoenix has defended someone with super naturally bad luck and still won. When he had amnesia.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Luck doesn't really help here. His luck is more saving him in the scene of the moment from life threatening situations. But he has been "proven" guilty of a crime before. And simply got lucky by escaping. But his luck isn't that potent to effect the trail. Phoenix raw experience, facing harder and more complicate cases, in a messed up system. Phoenix should be able to prove his case
And remember. Phoenix has defended someone with super naturally bad luck and still won. When he had amnesia.

Luck is the whole reason winning is basically impossible for Phoenix. If Naegi's life is saved by his luck, this becomes incon. I've yet to see any evidence of Phoenix taking on harder cases, and he's never taken on a case with the Case Trial system even so.

Is it SN bad luck or just really bad luck? Because there's a huge difference. Also, the level of luck is also in question, like how Komaeda can cause an avalanche on specifically his enemies, yet he says Naegi's luck exceeds his

 

[Buttersamuri]

It doesn't effect it to that degree though. It would save him from an execution. But it wouldn't effect the entire trail. The time he was made to look guilty in a case. He was saved from being killed. But not from looking guilty.

And I believe she is described to have super naturally bad luck. And luck still has little effect in the end. It says him from a situation that could kill him. But it would more likely save him from an execution rather than being proven guilty

 

[Listentomyrhytm]

It doesn't effect it to that degree though. It would save him from an execution. But it wouldn't effect the entire trail. The time he was made to look guilty in a case. He was saved from being killed. But not from looking guilty.
And I believe she is described to have super naturally bad luck. And luck still has little effect in the end. It says him from a situation that could kill him. But it would more likely save him from an execution rather than being proven guilty

Not sure if it's supernaturally bad but here's what Maggey's bad luck is like:

- Survived near death experiences, but not harmless and atleast broke a bone. (If I don't badly remember)

- Got accused of killing her own boyfriend

- Got accused of murder again

- Got accused of murder again, but this time she was saved before going to a trial.

And that's all I can remember.

 

[Buttersamuri]

She also suffered other stuff off screen as she brought up that her friends even crowned her to be really unlucky or something like that. Been a while since I went to that case

 

[BakiHanma18]

It doesn't effect it to that degree though. It would save him from an execution. But it wouldn't effect the entire trail. The time he was made to look guilty in a case. He was saved from being killed. But not from looking guilty.
And I believe she is described to have super naturally bad luck. And luck still has little effect in the end. It says him from a situation that could kill him. But it would more likely save him from an execution rather than being proven guilty

If he's voted guilty but is saved from execution, it would be incon, as the stipulation is "voted guilty and executed"

 

[Listentomyrhytm]

I also forgot a lot of things about that case(kinda ironic considering we play as an amnesiac Phoenix) but that's all I could remember.

 

[Buttersamuri]

Well. If death is also required. Inconclusive then makes the most sense. Phoenix skills, experience, and intelligence should be too much for him. But Naegis luck would save him from death. I'll go with that an execution is required

 

[Listentomyrhytm]

I mean, has any of you read the lord of the flies?

This has been bothering me a bit... what is exactly what you mean?

 

[ElixirBlue]

@Buttersamuri Er... let me point out the key differences between the 5th trial and the 1st trial, both times Makoto's luck was actively used.

• The 5th trial was different from other trials, as the truth did not matter. Monokuma was going to kill someone, which was originally Kirigiri, and the true murder wasn't in the room. Makoto then took it upon himself to hide his key information that could have lead to Kirigiri's death. Monokuma knew this and got angry at Makoto when Makoto didn't say anything and kept questioning the trial. He then on the spot, switched the accused to Makoto.

In the 5th trial, the truth did not matter and it was set up by the master mind. Makoto's luck could only last minute save Makoto from that.

• However, the 1st trial is something people tend to over look when it comes to Makoto's luck. Before the murder happened, Makoto was put into the only room that had a broke bathroom doorknob. It wasn't intentional by anyone and Monokuma laughed at Makoto's misfortune. Later, Sayaka was murdered in Makoto's bathroom. They previously switched places because Sayaka was originally planned to pin her murder on Makoto.

Sayaka was murdered instead and the murderer thought he was in Sayaka's room, as Sayaka tricked him before hand, so he broke down the door. All the girls have locks in their bathrooms but the guy's didn't. The murderer couldn't open the door and thought it was lock when it was just difficult to open.

Long story short, the difficult-to-open doorknob was the key evidence to prove Makoto wasn't the murderer. Showing how Makoto's luck can protect Makoto by disguising itself as misfortune.