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Perpetua and the Monitors Brothers Downgrade

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For the record, personally I am undecided.
 
Destroying an inifnite multiverse over time is still 2-A, since that implies destroying infinite matter over a finite amount of time, and that 5 universes were left doesn't make it any lower since we had a thread regarding 2-A standards where we agreed that destroying two sets of 2-A multiverses isn't above baseline since infinity doesn't operate like that, you can't divide infinity, you can't add to inifinity, you can't multiply infinity, and in this case, you can't substract infinity, so unless the argument is that the DC Multiverse wasn't 2-A during the COIE, Anti-Monitor should remain 2-A for that.

On the topic of Perpetua, I compltely agree with Matt. Also, Darkseid is 2-B, so even if the downgrade is accepted, they would go to 2-B instead of 2-C.
 
Okay. I do not think that the characters in question have demonstrated anywhere near a 1-A scale of power in their true states, but suppose that we will have to handle that later.
 
Anyway, I think that the problem here is that even though the Anti-Monitor was portrayed as 2-A during the original Crisis event, Perpetua was still only portrayed as able to destroy one universe at a time recently.

Meaning, inconsistency from writer to writer, and even within the stories themselves, as the original anti-matter wave was indeed displayed as comparatively slow-moving within each universe.
 
This is so stupid. Perpetua is literally destroying an infinite amount of universes overtime while not even at full power and her battle with the BWL is threatening all to destroy the entire multiverse. There is no need to downgrade anything.
 
Please elaborate with links to what you claim please.
 
As you wish.

DC Multiverse/Creation currently contains infinite universes as per stated dozens of times.

(1) https://mlpnk72yciwc.i.optimole.com...l.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/KLRN_1_1.jpg

(2)https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/u...3519943-thephantomstranger_4_thegroup-018.jpg

The BWL's power was causing reality to quake, the possibilities of hypertimes to die out, and the last denizens of the Sphere of Gods to shudder at his power, even go as far to say that they "want to believe he can be stopped."
(1)https://2.bp.blogspot.com/nHnfEoLRC...KdmJgtgi-y4jhlxD9LVePUx36kWcXk91wv_gJ_A=s1600

And to the denizens of the Sphere(including the Angels, Neron, and multiple other demons as shown in the previous panel), the only one who could rival BWL power was Perpetua.
(1)https://2.bp.blogspot.com/jjyH8hGXy...1BsKgFSbyadVttVDLjv5YFH3DYKcRSofGJ2Wsgw=s1600

The battle between Perpetua and the BWL rages across every facet of reality.
(1)https://2.bp.blogspot.com/1S8XkRr9B..._4vmUjA_KXZnpPeunwLy8HOUrE5PFkxZHLjhmTA=s1600

Chronicles states that Perpetua and the BWL could collapse the entire system(Multiverse in this context since that's what he has to record) before his survey can be complete.
(1)https://2.bp.blogspot.com/gK4DK0qjw...qxpFPoZQKurkoGylTTJG4YOHvbeEXsIie44RAOQ=s1600

Perpetua and BWL fighting will cause the stories and the multiverse itself to be ripped apart.
(1)https://2.bp.blogspot.com/BYy9et_VM...xh4e9iFi2_sGs0iFveopgQuolM2v1UixcRCWe-A=s1600

And Perpetua currently isn't at her full power btw. She used up all her power in some off panel fight that occurred before Death Metal that we never got to see and was relying on tuning forks from crisis worlds to sustain her so she can finish the job. And some of these have literally been destroyed. So she should be very weak right now and yet her and a battle between the BWL is still threatening the destruction all of creation. Hence why the Chronicler is there to record the Multiverses last dying moments.
 
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Okay. That seems to make sense to me.
 
Xearesay said:
As you wish.

DC Multiverse/Creation currently contains infinite universes as per stated dozens of times.

(1) https://mlpnk72yciwc.i.optimole.com...l.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/KLRN_1_1.jpg

(2)https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/u...3519943-thephantomstranger_4_thegroup-018.jpg

The BWL's power was causing reality to quake, the possibilities of hypertimes to die out, and the last denizens of the Sphere of Gods to shudder at his power, even go as far to say that they "want to believe he can be stopped."
(1)https://2.bp.blogspot.com/nHnfEoLRC...KdmJgtgi-y4jhlxD9LVePUx36kWcXk91wv_gJ_A=s1600

And to the denizens of the Sphere(including the Angels, Neron, and multiple other demons as shown in the previous panel), the only one who could rival BWL power was Perpetua.
(1)https://2.bp.blogspot.com/jjyH8hGXy...1BsKgFSbyadVttVDLjv5YFH3DYKcRSofGJ2Wsgw=s1600

The battle between Perpetua and the BWL rages across every facet of reality.
(1)https://2.bp.blogspot.com/1S8XkRr9B..._4vmUjA_KXZnpPeunwLy8HOUrE5PFkxZHLjhmTA=s1600

Chronicles states that Perpetua and the BWL could collapse the entire system(Multiverse in this context since that's what he has to record) before his survey can be complete.
(1)https://2.bp.blogspot.com/gK4DK0qjw...qxpFPoZQKurkoGylTTJG4YOHvbeEXsIie44RAOQ=s1600

Perpetua and BWL fighting will cause the stories and the multiverse itself to be ripped apart.
(1)https://2.bp.blogspot.com/BYy9et_VM...xh4e9iFi2_sGs0iFveopgQuolM2v1UixcRCWe-A=s1600

And Perpetua currently isn't at her full power btw. She used up all her power in some off panel fight that occurred before Death Metal that we never got to see and was relying on tuning forks from crisis worlds to sustain her so she can finish the job. And some of these have literally been destroyed. So she should be very weak right now and yet her and a battle between the BWL is still threatening the destruction all of creation. Hence why the Chronicler is there to record the Multiverses last dying moments.
Click to expand...
Okay, you convinced me. Shouldn't 2-A Perpetua be upgraded to Low 1-C since she fought the Darkest Knight who possesses a part Dr Manhattan's power + Crisis Energy and can create the "Last 52" Multiverse?
 
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Elizio33 said:
Okay, you convinced me. Shouldn't 2-A Perpetua be upgraded to Low 1-C since she fought the Darkest Knight who possesses a part Dr Manhattan's power + Crisis Energy and can create the "Last 52" Multiverse?
Click to expand...
Technically, yes.
 
Elizio33 said:
What about Perpetua destroying one universe at a time and needs to recharge her power????
Click to expand...
Alright so here's the thing. She saids "it will take me time to gather enough energy to destroy another universe. But there is work to do in the meantime."

It-will-take-me-time-to-gather-enough-energy-to-destroy-anoher-universe.gif


Now it makes sense to initially think that it will take her time to gather her energy again because her power is only strong enough to destroy one universe at a time. However, I think people are looking at this statement the wrong way.

When it saids "gather enough energy" it's not saying she needs more power, but that Perpetua herself doesn't have the strength to utilize her power to destroy another universe.

You have to remember Perpetua was locked away in The Source wall since the dawn of creation and was literally being taken care of by Lex Luthor the entire time up until now and her fight with the Ultra Monitor. Multiple remarks would then go along to be made about how due to being locked away she hasn't wielded her power in eons and lacks her full strength. Which implies to me the reason she's exhausted is not because her power is weak, but because she's been locked away and stripped from her power for so long that she just didn't yet have the strength to wield it.

"It has been an eon since I have wielded this much power."
Perpetua-hasn-t-wielded-this-much-power-in-a-long-time.gif


"You lack your full strength, mother. You have been locked away in The Source Wall for an eternity. We have lived in this multiverse for billions of years."

Perpetua-was-locked-away-in-The-Source-Wall.gif


And we know a power insufficiency just wouldn't make sense because she would later go along to demonstrate feats that would require grander displays of power than this and scales beyond beings who can destroy multiple universes at once. So it seems much more sound to conclude that she needed to gather enough energy/strength to destroy another universe because she's simply exhausted from having not wielded her power in such a long time and due to be locked away rather than because her power is "insufficient" like some people would like you to believe.
 
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Xearesay said:
Alright so here's the thing. She saids "it will take me time to gather enough energy to destroy another universe. But there is work to do in the meantime."

It-will-take-me-time-to-gather-enough-energy-to-destroy-anoher-universe.gif


Now it makes sense to initially think that it will take her time to gather her energy again because her power is only strong enough to destroy one universe at a time. However, I think people are looking at this statement the wrong way.

When it saids "gather enough energy" it's not saying she needs more power, but that Perpetua herself doesn't have the strength to utilize her power to destroy another universe.

You have to remember Perpetua was locked away in The Source wall since the dawn of creation and was literally being taken care of by Lex Luthor the entire time up until now and her fight with the Ultra Monitor. Multiple remarks would then go along to be made about how due to being locked away she hasn't wielded her power in eons and lacks her full strength. Which implies to me the reason she's exhausted is not because her power is weak, but because she's been locked away and stripped from her power for so long that she just didn't yet have the strength to wield it.

"It has been an eon since I have wielded this much power."
Perpetua-hasn-t-wielded-this-much-power-in-a-long-time.gif


"You lack your full strength, mother. You have been locked away in The Source Wall for an eternity. We have lived in this multiverse for billions of years."

Perpetua-was-locked-away-in-The-Source-Wall.gif


And we know a power insufficiency just wouldn't make sense because she would later go along to demonstrate feats that would require grander displays of power than this and scales beyond beings who can destroy multiple universes at once. So it seems much more sound to conclude that she needed to gather enough energy/strength to destroy another universe because she's simply exhausted from having not wielded her power in such a long time and due to be locked away rather than because her power is "insufficient" like some people would like you to believe.
Click to expand...
Makes sense. In that case, Low 1-C would be better than 2-A since there's also multiple indications implying that Perpetua rivals Dr Manhattan. And with her feat of battling the Darkest Knight, i think Low 1-C should be fine. We can add a footnote on why she was only able to destroy one universe at a time.
 
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Okay, so is somebody experienced and knowledgeable willing to edit the Perpetua page?

Also, Xearesay, do you use another username in the wiki?
 
So should I only unlock the Perpetua page for you to edit, or anything else as well?
 
Okay. Do you mean that your wiki username is Xearsay?
 
Okay. You should use the same username here. Is it fine if I change it from Xearesay to Xearsay?
 
I will unlock both pages then. Tell me here when you are done.
 
▪ I didn't know that destroying infinite universes overtime is 2-A. If it's 2-A then i don't have any problems with this.

▪ Also is creating infinite universes overtime 2-A? If it's 2-A then it can be a very good supportive feat (World Forger created infinite universes overtime).

▪ I'm fine with the explanation about Perpetua.

▪ I agree with the other changes.

Note: Monitor brothers are stronger than Mr. Mxyzptlk (Snyder's version) only in their true forms (i.e in the Sixth Dimension). We don't have any proof that in-multiverse Monitor brothers are stronger than Mr. Mxyzptlk.
 
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Thank you. Is there anything left to do here?
 
LuciferDC099 said:
▪ I didn't know that destroying infinite universes overtime is 2-A. If it's 2-A then i don't have any problems with this.

▪ Also is creating infinite universes overtime 2-A? If it's 2-A then it can be a very good supportive feat (World Forger created infinite universes overtime).

▪ I'm fine with the explanation about Perpetua.

▪ I agree with the other changes.

Note: Monitor brothers are stronger than Mr. Mxyzptlk (Snyder's version) only in their true forms (i.e in the Sixth Dimension). We don't have any proof that in-multiverse Monitor brothers are stronger than Mr. Mxyzptlk.
Click to expand...
Yep, their true forms are more powerful than Mister Mxyzptlk.
 
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