Pegasus Seiya vs Demigra

[SSJRyu1]

An 8th sense damaged Bronze cloth Seiya is 4 quintillion times FTL. God cloth is likely septillions of times FTL.

In reality speed on the two characters should be about equal. Neither should blitz. But Demigra has superior hax, he can bfr seiya to another timeline, go to another timeline himself where seiya can't hurt him, but he can attack him with hax from there, absorb seiya, posses seiya, control seiya, set traps all along the way for seiya, make duplicates of himself and illusions to fool seiya. I think that Demigra's hax are just to potent and abundant to be overcome personally by Seiya.

 

[RouninOtaku]

Boost in power does not remotely mean boost in speed, if there is nothing pointing towards it, we should not assume as much.

There is evidence pointing toward it, Thanatos destroyed all the Gold cloths before the bronze saints could react. When Seiya obtained the God cloth, he blitzed Thanatos.

 

[The_Everlasting]

...You do realize that that only implies marginal superiority in speed, right? You only need minimally superior speed to blitz others.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Can I get a link to the revised calc? Also, it should be a huge increase, since it pretty much gave him a boost from at least solar system all the way to universe level. It should also apply to speed.

We don't know by how much his speed increased if it did, so we can't give seiya a random boost in speed without having a known number for it. By that logic when Goku went from multi solar to multi galaxy+ he should have grown in speed by a crazy amount to, but we don't assume that, we use the shown speed feats.

 

[RouninOtaku]

An 8th sense damaged Bronze cloth Seiya is 4 quintillion times FTL. God cloth is likely septillions of times FTL.

In reality speed on the two characters should be about equal. Neither should blitz. But Demigra has superior hax, he can bfr seiya to another timeline, go to another timeline himself where seiya can't hurt him, but he can attack him with hax from there, absorb seiya, posses seiya, control, set traps all along the way for seiya, make duplicates of himself and illusions to fool seiya. I think that Demigra's hax are just to potent and abundant to be overcome personally by Seiya.

Demigra could likely win round one, but I don't see him surviving an attack with infinite power that he can't even react to.

 

[SSJRyu1]

@RouninOtaku Glad we agree his hax can defeat seiya if they hit. Now as for round 2 I don't see a blitz, both have shown similar speed in feats, so round 2 will likely be the same as round one since speed should be similar, so really I don't see seiya getting around Demigra's hax when speed is similar.

 

[RouninOtaku]

...You do realize that that only implies marginal superiority in speed, right? You only need minimally superior speed to blitz others.

Either way it makes no sense for it not increase his speed. Also, I'd like to see the revised calc. I don't get why the galaxies would be lined up since it was stated that the hyperdimension was distorted.

 

[RouninOtaku]

@RouninOtaku Glad we agree his hax can defeat seiya if they hit. Now as for round 2 I don't see a blitz, both have shown similar speed in feats, so round 2 will likely be the same as round one since speed should be similar, so really I don't see seiya getting around Demigra's hax when speed is similar.

How fast is Demigra?

 

[The_Everlasting]

It also makes no sense for it to increase his speed that massively since nothing implies that it does.

That is what the calc assumed.

http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=15242

 

[SSJRyu1]

@RouninOtaku Demigra's speed would be hundreds of quadrillions to upwards of quintillions of times ftl on the high end.

 

[RouninOtaku]

The calc says 4 quintillion times FTL....

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Seiya does not blitz, both of them are in the same class of speed (Quadrillions of times FTL).

thrre is a quadrillin ftl feat in xenoverse? what was it?

 

[SSJRyu1]

The calc says 4 quintillion times FTL....

As The Everlasting said that calc assumes that the galaxies are all in a line up, it makes little sense and is a super high ball. The old one was more reasonable. Also again Demigra's speed can reach into the quintillions as well on high end, so it is likely best to say their speed is about equal as they fall into each others ranges of speed.

 

[RouninOtaku]

Is there a calc for Demigra's speed?

 

[SSJRyu1]

thrre is a quadrillin ftl feat in xenoverse? what was it?

Whis and Beerus after the Demigra saga, they fly to the time nest located out side the universe from earth in about the time it takes to teleport the player to the time nest, so almost instantly. Also they go back and forth from beerus temple to the time nest during the demigra battle.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

^Earth is on the edge of the universe, hows flying to outside from edge put you at quadrillion?

 

[SSJRyu1]

Is there a calc for Demigra's speed?

Not to my knowledge, I haven't seen one done specifically yet, I just know that crossing the universe in a second is about 3 quintillion times ftl so I approximated the feat since he crosses through the universe, out of it and to another dimension located outside it in an instant, but if you wanted we could do a specific calc, but it would come out to hundreds of quadrillions to quintillions of times ftl if we do. Although a similar one has been done for Vados and Champa in the manga, albeit it is lower end since they assume that they were already on the very edge of the universe closest to the kaioshin realm for it.

http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?bt=220982

 

[SSJRyu1]

^Earth is on the edge of the universe, hows flying to outside from edge put you at quadrillion?

Even on the edge it is still a massive distance if you crossed even 1%, also the other dimension is outside of it, jsudging by the fact the kaioshin realm is still aprt of universe 7 and this dimension is not it is further than that is. Also they do a similar feat at Beerus temple which is far from earth, so far Goku can't even use IT to get to it normally. So still high quadrillions easily.

 

[FanofRPGs]

^Earth is on the edge of the universe, hows flying to outside from edge put you at quadrillion?

Flying from Earth to the edge of the universe in minutes makes you hundreds of trillions to quadrillions of times FTL

In seconds, it would be dozens of quadrillions x FTL

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Even on the edge it is still a massive distance if you crossed even 1%, also the other dimension is outside of it, jsudging by the fact the kaioshin realm is still aprt of universe 7 and this dimension is not it is further than that is. Also they do a similar feat at Beerus temple which is far from earth, so far Goku can't even use IT to get to it normally. So still quadrillions easily.

Did you even look at the Vados calc? It uses an out of scale map, pixel scaling is invalid for that map. It's an unquantifiable speed feat

 

[RouninOtaku]

Well the Vados and Champa are slower then Seiya's low end calc

 

[SSJRyu1]

Flying from Earth to the edge of the universe in minutes makes you hundreds of trillions to quadrillions of times FTL

In seconds, it would be dozens of quadrillions x FTL

And they do it in the time that it took to teleport back to the time nest, so seconds at most. Also they don't just fly to the edge but outside of it to a dimension located outside universe 7, so further than the kaioshin realm which is still part of universe 7.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

^Earth is on the edge of the universe, hows flying to outside from edge put you at quadrillion?

Flying from Earth to the edge of the universe in minutes makes you hundreds of trillions to quadrillions of times FTL
In seconds, it would be dozens of quadrillions x FTL

Except Earth itself is on the edge of the universe in DBS

 

[SSJRyu1]

Well the Vados and Champa are slower then Seiya's low end calc

Seiya calc lines up the galaxies and makes little sense, the older one is more realistic and follows the on panel placement of galaxies better, also vados and champa feat is low end, and Whis and Beerus one goes beyond the kaioshin realm and universe 7 so would be even faster than that calc, that was just an example of a similar feat for you. Either way both should be in a similar range of speed.

 

[RouninOtaku]

I think we should just leave this on hold until we can get a solid speed calc for Demigra or a calc for Beerus and Whis to scale off.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Did you even look at the Vados calc? It uses an out of scale map, pixel scaling is invalid for that map. It's an unquantifiable speed feat

I did, the map like that is in kai to, the only thing out of scale is the size of landmarks like in any map, the placement is accurate. Also this feat is not dependant on that, it stands alone as they go past the edge of the universe and past the kaisohin realm and to a dimension outside universe 7, realistically that is easily high quadrillions to quintillions of times ftl. Also if you argue that earth is close to the edge and think that is a deal breaker just use the Beerus temple one since they do the same feat from to and back from Beerus temple later on while they fight Demigra.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

^We only use the map in DBS, kai or daizenshuu map has been retconned and is not usable in any manner for scaling

If you want to prove that map is valid for scaling please make a thread, until then Vados calc is completely invalid

 

[SSJRyu1]

^We only use the map in DBS, kai or daizenshuu map has been retconned and is not usable in any manner for scaling

If you want to prove that map is valid for scaling please make a thread, until then Vados calc is completely invalid

That makes zero sense imo. There is no complete map for DBS. I agree the one for the living universe should be used but there is no map that includes the other world and kaioshin realm for DBS, there is no reason to ignore kais map placement of these things. So I disagree with you saying it is invalid. Also this feat is not predicated on the vados feat anyway, it simply shows whis and Beerus can cross through and out of the universe and into a dimension outside universe 7 within an instant, both from earth or Beerus planet.

 

[SSJRyu1]

I think we should just leave this on hold until we can get a solid speed calc for Demigra or a calc for Beerus and Whis to scale off.

I'd agree to wait for now, analyzing there speed is probably the best thing to do. We have approximations for Demigra but not a concrete number, we should come to a consensus on how fast specifically he is within reason.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

^We only use the map in DBS, kai or daizenshuu map has been retconned and is not usable in any manner for scaling

If you want to prove that map is valid for scaling please make a thread, until then Vados calc is completely invalid

That makes zero sense imo. There is no complete map for DBS. I agree the one for the living universe should be used but there is no map that includes the other world and kaioshin realm for DBS, there is no reason to ignore kais map placement of these things. So I disagree with you saying it is invalid. Also this feat is not predicated on the vados feat anyway, it simply shows whis and Beerus can cross through and out of the universe and into a dimension outside universe 7 within an instant, both from earth or Beerus planet.

We're only going to use a map that can be scaled for feats. Otherworld is a separate dimension, it doesnt need to be on the map for the physical universe which we're concerned about. And Whis/Vaods can pikely open portals as we saw in the opening, that would make the speed calc invalid as they did not tlfly physically

The old map is completely unusable for scaling, the current map is accurate and official for DBS, as it was shown on the show itself

 

[RouninOtaku]

Should we request it on the calc thread?

 

[Coleworld12]

Seiya does blitz him.

1.Feats from DBS don't even apply to demigra as noted on his page.

2.The calc was revised not using the assumed galaxies are lined up thing by God movement http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=15242&page=5

It's High end of quadrillions in the low end 900+ quadrillions and that's far above anything in DBS as well so yeah he's getting blitzes by bronze 8th sense

 

[Victor2]

bfr will never work on seiya. it didn`t work on shaka it hell won`t work on seiya whos leagues above him.

Suikyo said he has created an Immune to mind attacks after seeing it once, seiya fought the Gemini saint who ***** with thier mind. he also has mastered 6th sense which is the sense of mind, meaning seiya can`t be mind rapped. not by a low tier one.

Proof seiya can resist being sent to another timeline? Shaka never resisted time manip to another timeline, proof he can resist being absorbed? proof he can resist being possessed? Proof he can resist being mind controlled? Demigra has many hax that can win in a instant.
Also even if seiya destroys Demigra's body before he uses his hax on him his essence still can act on its own afterward.

i won`t repeat myself again. Saga tried to Bfr shaka to another dimension, it could not work.

demigra can`t even absorbe goku whos blew seiya tf you think it`ll work on seiya whos above goku LMFAO

hades couldn`t posses shun, it definatly wouldn`t work on seiya whos will exceeds even shuns.

seiya has 6th sense which is the sense of mind, he has fought mind rapper before.

seiya can destroy on soul/astral level so its irrelevant.

 

[Victor2]

also, stop saying whis crossed the universe in an instand cause he did not. we have no idea how he reached there. probable came along with time patroller.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Should we request it on the calc thread?

It may be very hard to calc, if not impossible depending on how strict the calcer is. All we know for sure is that they crossed through the universe, outside of it, most likely past the kaioshin realm as it is still part of the universe 7, and into a dimension outside all that in the time it took to teleport to the time vault. If we used the DB Kai map we could at least get a low end distance saying it's further than the kaioshin realm, as for timeframe, instant is kinda vauge, wed have to say likely seconds to be reasonable. So even I could calc it, but it would be a low end approximation, we can't know the exact number.

 

[Coleworld12]

Whis needs 30 minutes or something to cross the universe and that's via staff even teleportation is more useful than that in combat

 

[Victor2]

Whis needs 30 minutes or something to cross the universe and that's via staff even teleportation is more useful than that in combat

yes. we don`t have any clue how much time it took whis to get there. its unquantifiable.

 

[RouninOtaku]

Apparently on the profile it says that Demigra was unsure about taking on Whis, so at most he could be as fast as Whis. We should be able to scale off that shouldn't we?

 

[Coleworld12]

Apparently on the profile it says that Demigra was unsure about taking on Whis, so at most he could be as fast as Whis. We should be able to scale off that shouldn't we?

He doesn't even scale to DBS to begin with...check the bottom of his page...

 

[Victor2]

no. demigra is much weaker than beerus. hell, even goku said he could beat him.