Overlord Discussion Mk.VI

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Wait what?

Yeah, I do not believe I agree at all with that. But mostly because I feel you are using vs battle parlance to lend resistance its meaning.

The whole point of death spells is to... well, kill target. And TGOALID is the special answer to enemies that have perfect death resistance. So what is the only possibly way to resist such a thing if the in game classes have nothing that can defend against it?

Using an instant revival spell, so that it was like the spell had never gone off. I mean, think about it. You can only have the spell if you specialize in necromancy and death magic... So if you are using Death magic, is because it can be used. And if you are using TGOALID, it's because the other dude's resistance just makes said Death Magic pointless. Imagine an Scenario where Ainz has no plan and was just trying to kill someone his death spells could do nothing about - his last trump card is used and his enemy comes back to full health. The way I understand resistance here, it just means not remaining dead, which is the whole point of the skill.

 

[Ugarik]

How did Cure Elim survive TGOALID?

 

[InfiniteSped]

Who knows

 

[Vergil_Lucifer]

How did Cure Elim survive TGOALID?

My opinion is:

Shub-Niggurah don't touch dragon, only his zombie armor. (Author do this for plot reason. To made an intresting fight with Ainz). So Insta-death effect wasn't touch dragon and TGoALiD with it.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

The spell says it can't be stopped by physical means... I think it's another weakness of his ability not set by the game but rather IRL depending on what death spell he boosts. Not Cure's resistance to it as he is undead under the system, unless Maruyama wants to do something really bad like granting all dragon lords resistance to it because the system registers them as bosses.

 

[InfiniteSped]

Maybe Wild Magic just gives them resistance to it, like against WCI.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Without using it? Too OP.

 

[InfiniteSped]

Wild Magic is op. Those shitty devs

 

[DeathNoodles]

Wild Magic is op. Those shitty devs

I am confused here. Isn't Wild Magic a type of power that isn't present within the YGGDRASIL game, and is a type of magic that has existed in the New World before Tier Magic came in?

 

[NeoSuperior]

This just illustrates the weakness I mentioned about TGOALID, which is that it doesn't give the base ability any "penetrative" properties. If the base skill cannot phase through something, then TGOALID will destroy that something once it triggers, however not whatever was behind that obstacle.

 

[Vergil_Lucifer]

If it was there is any mention in text about being able to resist such an abilities like author words or Momonga reaction, but it's not. So I see no reason no claim True Dragon Lords being able to resist TGoALiD.

Btw who say that World Items not work on them? It's only a theory of Theocracy leaders and could be related with different reasons.

Primal magic is truly powerfull stronger than Level Magic but there is many unclear things in it.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Balance was never an option.

 

[DeathNoodles]

Btw who say that World Items not work on them? It's only a theory of Theocracy leaders and could be related with different reasons.

A theory from Theocracy leaders who has never tested the effects of WCIs against Wild Magic by the way. And so far, we only see explicit evidence of Wild Magic failing to work on WCIs and their holders, not the other way around.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Not sure why people thought that. The Theocracy dude did say ' will probably not work on that fellow who can use wild magic'. But it would be kekaruu~ if wild magic granted the resistance to world class items and vice versa. 5B/7B resistance to most verse here we come

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

As far as I see it, that was merely PIS. It could penetrate all the layers of undead all the way down but it couldn't affect Cure? Ainz wasn't even surprised or off put that it didn't affect Cure, and his goal from.the start was to get rid of his undead armor rather than kill Cure.

Unless he discovered something else fighting Brightness Dragon Lord that he never says, it just sounds like plot for the sake of a battle.

 

[Bonesdrowy]

Or maybe Maruyama didn't realized his mistake or just decided to just ignore. Didn't he openly admitted to omitting things from the fight? Could be possible that he simply made a mistake as he tried to finish the side story.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Its possible, but it sounds more unlikely to me. He's using the spell to kill undead immune to death magic while leaving the undead immune to death magic untouched.

It just seems like a weird slip, and I pretty sure it was intentional.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Yeah considering he explicitly cut things from the battle i think its best to deem it pis until we get some other confirmation.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

When I said, "The spell says it can't be stopped by physical means", I was talking about this:

The dark breath had no physical effect, and at the same time it was not something that could be stopped by physical means.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Well yeah. Kinetic energy and physical barriers couldn't stop that, and the second would just "die" as well rendering the barrier ineffectual.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

The point is that the zombies didn't stop it from hitting him.

 

[NeoSuperior]

As I've said. TGOALID does NOT add any "penetrative power" in the slightest. All it does is annul any instant-death resistances and immunities. While it does that to an impressive degree, it ONLY does exactly that and nothing more. It doesn't enable a spell that fails to phase through something to suddenly be able to phase through it.

So what failed to reach Cure wasn't TGOALID, but rather Ainz's Super-Tier Lovecraft spell.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

But that makes no sense. Cure had 400,000 undead making his "body armor". They weren't in a thin film, they were layers upon layers of them, layers that got penetrated.

Or rather, there's nothing to "penetrate". La Shub isn't a physical effect, it is a death spell, there is nothing to blow away or stop with a wall. It just passes through, and if you are inside you are affected. The death effect is instantaneous as well. If it enveloped Cure's armor, or passed through it, then Cure himself was obviously inside because he's way, way smaller than his armor.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Ehh. The quote is right there though. Using zombies means you are trying to stop it through physical means. Anyways this is done and dusted though, Cure already has resistance to TGOALID on his profile.

 

[Apeironaxim]

If Wild Magic and WCI resist each other, maybe Wild Magic would have similar propreties to WCIs?

Like how WCI aren't effected by Super Tier Magic, so then Wild Magic wouldn't either?

too bad Maruyama will actually never explai

he even mocks us by flat out stating he omits things

 

[NeoSuperior]

You mean instant death magic does not collide with "undead energy" or something like that? Remember the "armor" was made out of undead, not of living beings. We know that undead exist of negative energy and obviously any instant death "energy" would be filled to the brim with it, so it might just have a repelling effect, sort of how two magnets with the side of the same polarization facing each other will end up repelling each other.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Why would we ever assume "undead energy" collides? It us called Negative Energy by the way.

Like, that's never shown to be a thing, never mentioned, not even against Shalltear with her undeadness and undead familiars. Plus it makes like, literal no sense because all of the undead except Cure were killed, if the first layer didn't stop it why would the very last?

 

[Apeironaxim]

clearly we all need to swarm his twitter

 

[NeoSuperior]

But how the hell is it "PIS", by the way? It's not PIS. PIS is someone doing something dumb or throwing a fight they could have won otherwise.

If the mechanics don't fit your understanding of the lore, then there is either an explanation that the author has yet to provide to the reader, or it's a "lore hole", or it's the audience having misunderstood something about the lore.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

What an interesting theory, I get what you mean, but you don't go and mention the mechanics in a fight where the opponent has physical means to try and block it. There is also the fact that all the undead surrounding him died with that spell, I would understand if he had at-least a layer left. There is a-lot of unanswered questions surrounding this especially how Ainz was unfazed.

 

[Apeironaxim]

Also, if literally all of them around his body died, then that makes it more confusing

If it was just like, the area of his body that was facing Shub's wave thing, then that would communicate it only has a certain range and just didn't make it to Cure

But again, if everything around his body died, then it would have reached Cure too

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

"PIS, short for "Plot-Induced Stupidity" is a term used to refer to events in a story that contradict a character's normal capabilities for the purpose of the plot."

Narrative flow is, surprisingly, a thing. Things were building up to a battle with Cure. Not everything is about lore, because fictional universes aren't perfectly functioning self contained bubbles that never cause contradictory events. A little detail most people won't care about is barely as important as giving a battle the plot has been building up all novel.

 

[Apeironaxim]

Fun fact

there is I think 2 instances of cloud-to-ground lightning in V13

....but it's just mentioned as a background thing, and is never explained what spell it is

 

[InfiniteSped]

Probably Call Greater Thunder?

 

[Apeironaxim]

As she pondered this, she heard a doom as an exceptionally large explosion rang out. After that, a tall building began to collapse far in the distance. The Sorcerer King would not have destroyed that building for no reason. Neia narrowed her eyes to try and see what was going on, but she could not tell what was happening in the building as it collapsed amidst billowing clouds of dust. It was followed by a massive stroke of lightning from the sky.

That's it, that's the entire description

No hint as to what it could be

 

[InfiniteSped]

The explosion was likely the Nuclear Blast, he did use Call Greater Thunder a bit after it.

 

[Apeironaxim]

Assuming this even is Call Greater Thunder, it doesn't even need to be outside to work

―Let's begin, then.
"[Call Greater Thunder]!"
This ninth-tier spell was the most advanced single-target lightning spell. While a flame-type spell would have worked just as well, he was mildly afraid of fire ― it was one of his weaknesses, after all ― which was why he had chosen this spell instead. Of course, he could have used something weaker, like a fifth-tier spell or something, but he had chosen a high tier spell because he wanted to know how much damage a ninth-tier spell would do to him, as well as how much it would hurt.
Also,this was one of the spells that an Overlord would commonly use, and he also wanted to see if he could direct single-target spells against himself.
A thick pillar of lightning coursed down, lighting the interior of the sewer with a dazzling light.

So even then, not sure we can say it functions as real lightning

 

[InfiniteSped]

Prob not. Don't think anyone dodged it anyway

 

[Apeironaxim]

Yea, even if we counted Call Greater Thunder as lightning-speed, Shalltear wasn't able to dodge it, so no one would scale to it anyway

 

[InfiniteSped]

Yes, they shall remain supersonic for all eternity