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Overlord additions (Overlord Bonus Volume)

The fact that Ainz has immunity to Mind Effects but still needs a resistance to Turn Undead, meaning undead can be affected by it regardless. Plus, Turn Undead can also be used to hurt undead.
 
Also, I like how not only can the Staff straight up attack people on its own, it can also summon 7-B monsters on its own

Because why not
 
From the start that was one of it's abilities, remember Ainz summoning the Fire Elemental from it for the Twins to battle.

Also, thinking about it, yes. All undead naturally have the mind resistance, yet Ainz and any necromancer controls their undead after summoning. Even more, Rigrit has a special skill for taking control of undead, so it does disregard mind resistance.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
From the start that was one of it's abilities, remember Ainz summoning the Fire Elemental from it for the Twins to battle.Also, thinking about it, yes. All undead naturally have the mind resistance, yet Ainz any necromancer controls their undead. Even more, Rigrit has a special skill for taking control of undead, so it does disregard mind resistance.
Click to expand...
Yes but now we know it can do it by itself, and doesn't require Ainz to do it

A minor detail, but still useful
 
The battle scene in this book might have ended up becoming confusing. Originally, perhaps there might have been a need to go "this is why he did so and so" but I deliberately omitted it. This work really does place a big burden on its readers. Perhaps I might have failed as a LN author, but like I've said many times, I personally think "it doesn't matter if you don't understand."

Maruyama why
 
Araki: I'm going to make JoJo the most incoherent series in anime.

Maruyama: Hold my keyboard.

Again though, the similarities between the two LN volumes don't matter if they aren't canon to one another. This is how we treat every verse, not just Overlord. It's not that we need to find contradictions to discount it first, we'd need confirmation on the part of the author.

Although if it's a "what-if" story that still takes place in the continuity of Overlord, but just a different timeline, there are some exceptions I've seen made. Like feats from alt-timeline Sylar for Peter Petrelli.
 
"The undead domination effect which he was most wary of did not take place. Of course, he had never once lowered his Turn Resistance III in order to protect against it. It would seem he would not be controlled just by being pulled into it." (https://pastebin.com/XTDPFrxE)

Judging from this quote, Ainz's Turn Resistance protects him from undead domination effects (such as the one he used earlier in the story on that night lich) as well as from turn undead itself.
 
The side story starts just after Ainz changes Albedo's settings, meaning it's basically the same thing as the main Volume 1 up until that point.

In the main canon, Ainz's magic and abilities didn't improve at all, that's made clear multiple times. So, Volume 13 Ainz = Start of Volume 1 Ainz.

And since Side-Story Satoru = Volume 1 Ainz, then Satoru = Main Ainz.

It's simple. The only difference between them are their personalities, their knowledge about the New World, the items they have access to (main Ainz has all the ones Satoru has, so it doesn't matter), and that the main Ainz is better at CQC (which also doesn't matter to the magic)
 
If the cosensus is that it's the same Ainz but with different events playing out, I'll concede on that argument so we can focus on more important debate such as the WCI resistances.
 
@Dargoo

It was swept up there so I am gonna say again, should I give you a rundown of why I disagree with the resistances? I'll try to make it more organized.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
@Dargoo

It was swept up there so I am gonna say again, should I give you a rundown of why I disagree with the resistances? I'll try to make it more organized.
Click to expand...
Sure, it'll take a while for me to respond since I'm at work rn, though.
 
Cracks knuckles!

First things first this qoute perfectly explains ainz not using his wci against the pdl


Both hiding his trump cards and letting his opponent beat on him was all in preparation for the next battle. Suzuki Satoru had always done this when PVPing in YGGDRASIL. Due to the rule of victory going to the one who won two matches out of three, losing the first battle was not a problem. That did not change, even in his first life-or-death struggle in this world.

Heck it expains him leaving it behind to fight the cdl the first time, ainz isn't treating combat like he does in the main series where he always goes for overwhelming victory instead he has fully embraced the way he acted in yggdrasil even in life or death battles.

So no there is no evidence to suggest wild magic would protect from world class items as he has never used a wci against a user of wild magic as shown above even when fighting the dragon lord while protecting keeno he didn't use his trump cards cause thats his strategy. He literally talks about not using his trump cards in his battle.

I can also tell you with confidence that ring he kept? is most definitly a ring of self revival basically he didn't need the defense of other items as he could simply revive, flee and reequip.

Again he resisted ee from two different sources that are shown not to interact in the way you would expect, your the one trying to force a false equivlance. Saying that the above qoute from the author makes me think he may be dicking us around a bit...
 
Actually the more I think about the more your point about not wearing the world class item in his first encounter doesn't make sense. Regardless of how the resistances are granted by world class item taking it off isn't a logical move, he knows his opponent has wild magic that could one shot kill him yet he takes it off. Regardless of if it offers general resistances or only resistance wci and wild magic its not a move that makes sense...

I feel this my just be a point of plot stuipidity as I cant think of a logical reason for ainz not to wear the wci in his first encounter regardless of how the resistances work...
 
Something to clear out first:

  • In Yggdrassil, you can build resistances to basically everything in the game short of the effects of World Items. There are skills that can bypass this but that isn't important.
  • Ainz specifies that no matter what, you are gonna have some blind spot since you can't cover every resistance. This also means the resistances to the various kinds of damage, but those don't matter as even with a World Item you can get hurt. Also, the one that says this is Ainz, an undead that comes with a really big list of innate resistances just from his racial skills, and that has higher quality armor than is the norm.
Reasons why this is being considered as general resistance:

  • The World Item directly shows the capacity to block the effects of something that not only wasn't in Yggdrassil, the game Ainz and World Items come from, but that existed before even the first players came to the New World.
  • At no points is it ever said or shown that World Items don't resist the effects of normal Tier Magic, so arguing it has no bases.
Problems I have with this:

  • Wild Magic has a special property that it shares with World Items and that nothing else, not the items or spells of Yggdrassil or the martial arts and talents of the New World, have - if you have Wild Magic, you automatically resist all Wild Magic. This seems to be the case no matter the effect, even though the EE Ray that Ainz resisted was said to be among the 5 worst, more powerful Wild Magic spells so most of them obviously scale below. Likewise, no matter the "power" difference you resist a WCI if you have a WCI. The seeming disconnection of the two seems to falter considering this rather unique common trait.
  • Ainz is a very methodical individual, it can be seen in his battle with Cure (the dragon that makes the EE Ray), considering pros and cons and alternatives as much as he can. He decides to sneak close to Cure to gather information, using subpar gear to disguise himself and weakening himself in the process, not to mention riddling his resistances full of holes. Yet if this was accepted, the WCI should give him resistances to everything but damage, yet he didn't even consider it for a moment. Not even the slightest comment as he realizes Cure may have a stronger ability to control Undead and keeps his Turn Undead Resistance on in case it tries to control Ainz.
  • Connected to the above, I am sure you can imagine how big of a deal it would be to cover all your non-damage related resistances with a single item, yet Ainz never makes the slightest mention of it resisting tiered spells ever. Not even a "it would be risky as people would know you have one, but it would make for a powerful combo" comment, literally nothing in 13 novels.
  • Ainz prepares himself with every item he thinks is best for facing dragons and undead, uses a cash item he only has 2 copies of, and generally pulls every advantage he has out for the fight with Cure. Despite this, he doesn't use or even think for a moment of using his World Item (the red orb in his chest) even when he mentioned in Volume 11 how it has many kinds of powers, one of them very effective against dragons. Ainz is pulling every resource he thinks he'll need and even recognizes Cure is a dangerous opponent, but he doesn't deem it necessary to use his World Item? That would make me think the resistance goes both ways, Ainz can't hurt Wild Magic Users with WCI. But at no point is Wild Magic said to resist anything but Wild Magic, so it remains nothing but a common trait between both shared by nothing else.
 
Where did this supposed equivalency between Wild Magic and WCIs come from?

Is there any quote/text that explicitly says that a WCI can't affect a Wild Magic user? (we already have proof that Wild Magic can't affect a WCI holder, but I don't recall seeing the same for the other way around)

We can't assume such a equivalency where a WCI can't affect a Wild Magic user (though it is the case for vice versa) if there isn't a quote/text that explicitly states such.
 
Your the only one implying it will cover everythng but damage, we know of no wcls that turn undead, no wcl that do elemental resist, I repeat there are two hundred of these things and they are very niche and weird in what they can do.

Again alebedos is effective against inanimate objects.....Thats it yet it is a world class item. we cant assume defences from world class items that havent been shown to exist.

Ainz didn't use his wci in either battle due to not needing it when facing cure and explicitly holding back all his trump cards agianst pdl. Heres the qoute to prove it;


Both hiding his trump cards and letting his opponent beat on him was all in preparation for the next battle. Suzuki Satoru had always done this when PVPing in YGGDRASIL. Due to the rule of victory going to the one who won two matches out of three, losing the first battle was not a problem. That did not change, even in his first life-or-death struggle in this world.

Again you assume ainz would have used the ability with no foundation to go off other than it would make sense to. Ainz knows his opponet has a huge layer of armor between him and his main body. The effect that is great against dragons wouldn't be likely to breach it and after getting it off would be wasted.

Ill also repeat my above point regardless of how the resistance is offered ainz taking off the world class item that would protect him from a one hit kill is incredibly dumb. It wont fill the holes in ainz defenses because there are no world class items we know of that do fire, holy, or any other form of direct damage. Hell thats not how word class items seem to work, they tend to be weird and esoteric in nature.
 
It's just a fair assumption based from the information that we've gotten. I am not gonna argue back against any of you, I'll just let you all say your piece and let Dargoo evaluate. Still, I don't see what Ainz not using the World Item when Cure was covered in zombies has to do with anything Pen, and is a weird retort. The whole point of Ainz plan was to kill all the zombies shielding him like a ball THEN deal damage. Which is exactly what he did.
 
It's an assumption that isn't backed up by explicit proof of WCIs being unable to affect a Wild Magic user.

How can we assume there is even a equivalency between them (which is the basis for the majority of your arguments) if there isn't even solid evidence of WCIs being unable to affect Wild Magic users (we only have explicit evidence for the other way around, from what I can recall).

Your argument could've been pretty sound if it has an explicit quote/text supporting it, but I didn't see any.
 
There is none as someone who has read the side story three times now and overlord series ten times nothing ever supports the equvilance he is trying to give wci and wild magic.
 
Except all of what I laid out. If you aren't convinced I am not gonna try, because it honestly feels like you just don't wanna agree with what I am saying at this point.

That's why I am letting Dargoo have a look at it and what Pen said and make a judgement or ask any questions he has, I trust his opinion.

By the way, explicit quotes aren't needed every time and for everything. There's a reason why context and consistency and other things matter, it's not just "x matters therefore y and screw the details".
 
My point was why would he bother using a trump card when he didn't need it? his plan didnt require the world class item to kill cure, thus he wouldn't bother wasting a special ablitity where it wasn't needed.
 
Your drawing lines without supporting infromation from the text, your using a lack of infromation as your proof against it. Its the same problem Ive had with your argument from the start, it try's to use what the text doesn't say to justify your argument.\

alas I agree we've gone in circles so many times let's leave it up to dragoo.
 
Okay then.

I was simply just pointing out the lack of explicit evidence supporting such assumptions. I'm going to let Dargoo evaluate the arguments between yours and Pen's (and possibly everyone else's), but your lack of explicit evidence supporting such assumptions could be noted.
 
Waste was the wrong word he had no reason to use it thus he didn't. Like say I could kill a zombie with an axe but why would I when I can use a scredriver

Edit: Hell its more like I could kill a zombie with an axe but Ive never used an axe against a zombie before, (as stated above he never used his trump cards against pdl) Or I can use this screwdriver which Ive used a bunch in the past! (Ainz using magic and startgy to kill cure)
 
I don't think it needs to be noted at all. If my logic doesn't hold up, it doesn't.

Yes, but... Why would you do that? The answer is that you don't, because you'll want to use the most efficient and safe way. Which is all Ainz is about, the most efficient and safe way. Ainz is the kind of dude that fully believed Cure could have killed him if any part of his plan slipped up, and had more strategies in mind ready just in case. But you'll tell me he will forgo a very useful tool at his disposal which isn't gonna disappear if he uses it and make his chances of winning even higher... because he "doesn't need to"? Ainz, the dude that hates fighting people he knows little of and knows he's dead if he fails?

Yes, don't even grab someone paranoid, grab whoever and tell them if they would use a screwdriver instead of an axe knowing you are dead if the zombie bites you once. I'm sure they'll go for the screwdriver.
 
Ainz also the dude that took off that supremly useful item for no particular reason (regardless of how the resistances work he still forewent an item that could save him from being one shot by wild magic. Again for no reason thats not even a matter of how the resistances work its just a bad desicion regardless) .

Yes I will tell you ainz would. Read the above edit, ainz hasn't used the abilitiy against a dragon lord why would he choose now to test it when he has already devised a startgy for victory. Im not saying he wouldnt have used it in a desperate situation but the closest ainz got was when he was hit by the existence erasure, and that was negated by having the item on.
 
Hell its more like I could kill a zombie with an axe but Ive never used an axe against a zombie before, (as stated above he never used his trump cards against pdl) Or I can use this screwdriver which Ive used a bunch in the past! (Ainz using magic and startgy to kill cure)

edit: Im still glad to have the axe but Im going for the screwdriver first as Ive had far more experience with it. He knows what it does, the same way I know what an axe will do if I swing it. He doesn't know how well it will work on a dragon lord.
 
Little advise, just edit your comment it you wanna say something more. It makes the thread longer and uses up the post limit of threads.

Also... um... That's a really weird way to explain it, because there's no way Ainz doesn't understand what his World Item does well. He literally has it on him almost all the time.
 
To be entirely fair, both sides of the argument here are practically arguing speculation, so saying "X person's argument requires a leap in logic" isn't recognizing the fact that we have no explicit interactions between World Class Items and Tiered Magic beyond when the Tiered Magic is directly opposing the WCI's effects, such as Wish Upon a Star and Downfall of Castle and Country.

Ainz's Red Orb being a World Item was web novel only, I think.

So far I mostly agree with LSir.

@Pen Double-posting isn't explicitly against the rules but if done enough could be seen as spamming; so I'd reccomend just editing your posts if you have more to say.
 
Nah, it is stated outright in the Bonus Volume and mentioned in the Volume 11. It's the Red Orb in his chest. The webnovel only things are statements like how it wiped out half of the invading players in that 1500 people raid.
 
Allright than seems dragoo agrees we're not getting wcis converted to general resistances (Not till we get confirmation from the light novel one way or the other), lets go over what is being added from the side story than.

Edit so we got some more info on the staff and its ability to function independently of ainz, and saw it summon some new elementals. Also all the above spells should be added.
 
If you or the other still have any arguments, they can be made.

Regardless, all of the spells surely should. Information about the guild weapon acting on it's own as well.

For anything soul related we would need to get the scene, but Keno has no resistance. The reason she survived is that she instinctually used her Talent, which let's her copy any spell she sees and use it once but with her own stats, to copy the spell Cure was using to absorb souls. Without those souls, Cure would become a Mindless zombie. Likewise would Keno, but she copied the spell and absorbed any nearby souls and became like a mini Cure. She also can't use her Talent anymore as the spell is continuously working and she'll die if she stops it, letting the souls go and turning her mindless.
 
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