Overlord additions (Overlord Bonus Volume)

[Apeironaxim]

So should we have Dargoo and FD and whoever else look over the arguments and see what they think?

hopefully for the last time, cause i'm just tired of this at this point

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Ill go get them who is Fd though?

 

[Apeironaxim]

FDrybob

 

[InfiniteSped]

While Wild Magic does seem pretty similar to WCIs, at least it has shown to make the user resistant to Tiered Magic spells as well, so, even if they're interchangeable, the general resistance might still apply to WCIs, at least until we get some more information.

Anyway, I don't oppose adding it.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Its got some basic similarities but the fact they originate from different worlds, one consumes souls the other runs on power of lazy developers and the fact they have a similar effect from different sources points towards general resistance.

True even if we did for some insane reason equate them that doesn't really negate the possiblity they are general resistances.

 

[Bonesdrowy]

And that's the main problem, 'debunked'. I've seen no debunking besides differing interpretations of Ainz's mentality without any pertinent proof to back this up. You are even twisting my point about a World Item for every effect which has never had anything to do with anything of what I've said at ANY point and it's absurd. Like, have any of you actually read my points? Do I need to have to say it 10 times to make it clear? WCI doesn't care about the particular effect, WCI simply cares that a WCI is the source of the effect. Which is the exact same with Wild Magic, we have no reason to assume it "resists" specific effects, it just resists as long as it comes from Wild Magic.
I actually realized why it has been so stressful to argue this, because I am saying A and you are all saying B, so B is wrong and my proposal is wrong by consequence. Bone brought up how I know Wild Magic stops Wild Magic, when Cure is the one to say "Wild Magic..." hatefully when thinking how did Ainz survive. Honestly, I am actually done this time. I am not gonna argue this more, and I really don't care about the resistances. You can all decide what you want.

I would like to apologize ahead if any of what I say sounds condescending or outright rude. A

majority of your argument is baseless assumptions that are derived from a specific interpretation (yours) of Wild Magic, Ainz behavior, and now Cure's own words. Somehow Cure saying "Wild Magic..." must mean Wild Magic makes one immune to all Wild Magic, and not just Cure assuming Ainz casted a Wild Magic spell to counter his own spell. So if Ainz were cast a barrier Tier spell to counter a damaging Tier spell and the opposition says "Tier Magic...." must mean Ainz simply having Tier Magic makes him immune to all Tier magic? Before even finding this quote you admitted that Wild Magic equal having immunity to other Wild Magic was just a 'pessonal' assumption.

There is no reason for EITHER side to use Ainz behavior to support one's argument, he is inconsistent and shown himself to never clarify his own actions or spells. It is literally up to interpretation for this to work.

You need to actually provide explicit evidence to prove many points, using vague statements/pieces of text from the novels to build a personal interpretation is not enough for some of these, to repeat myself:

You'll need to actually prove these

1. Wild Magic makes one immune to other Wild Magic (again no actual evidence or even indication of this in the novels).

2. A WCI makes one immune to all Wild Magic and vice versa, despite this being false as Ainz WCI didn't cancel out the anti-teleportation Wild Magic spell and Drsgon Lords are still capable of learning Tier Magic (at the cost of losing Wild Magic) which shows that Dragon Lords were still subject to the WCI that implemented Tier Magic into the NW.

3. Wild Magic can pierce ALL resistances just like a WCI, however this is false as how would ANY Dragon Lord lose a NPC/Player without a WCI. PDL himself admitted that he probably couldn't defeat an unequipped Shalltear which would make absolute no sense if his spells can pierce all of her resistances.

4. Making assumptions base on Ainz behavior with his WCI and the WCI itself. Which shouldn't even be used by either side as the author himself admitted to omitting parts of the fight.

The only thing similar between Wild Magic and WCI is that WCI cancels out Wild Magic (only specific Wild Magic was canceled). We do not know the reason for this, for all we know it could because the WCI is actually absolute in both worlds.

I don't know why there's even any contention, WCI already counters Wild magic, different magic source that until actually explicitly proven otherwise. This should be enough to support general resistance to specific effects or at the very least EE resistance. This is no different than Chakra countering mind control in Naruto (the same mind control that specifically targets the Chakra within the brain system), a energy source showing to only be able to counter the exact energy source, yet its still allow as general mind control resistance. (Sorry for keep using Naruto as an example, my mind has failed me in thinking of a better example)

On the topic of mind conteol Shalltear, I'll concede on it.

As for the quote relating to PDL, once again its a somewhat vague statement that one could twist in any way to fit their interpretation. Especially since information relating to Wild Magic is close to bare bones, so theres not much limit to what one could say. Especially since Downfall of Castle and country is a somewhat unique WCI in that we would actually need to see the interaction, since we don't know if the reason as to why PDL could 'probably' be immune to the WCI is due to a specific Wild spell. I really think a statement from a religious fanatics that don't even understand the entire mechanics of their own WCI would count as reliable, especially since they may have never actually used a WCI against a Dragon Lord with Wild Magic and may just think that its too different from Tier magic that it may cancel it out. Like I say, kinda vague and can be move around based on one's own interpretation.

Furthermore for your particular argument, it requires faaaaar more than just assumptions. You are making a claim that two separate magic systems (that are from two different Worlds, work on different mechanics, powered by different sources, etc.) are fundamentally similar enough in order to disprove general resistance. Its far harder to actually prove this than proving that its not similar to each other.

This shouldn't be in contention, by energy equivalency rules than it should support general resistances, as Wild Magic is still the universal magic trait of the New World as technically Tier Magic was forced into it from another world/universe. Countering Wild should be basically like Chakra countering other Chakra techniques (again sorry for keep using Naruto). If we were to say Wild Magic does in fact equal WCI, doesn't change the fact that Wild Magic is from a different world and runs on different source of power/mechanics.

I would like to clarify, this probably the best we're ever gonna get from Maruyama, especially with the whole 'release a volume once a year' schedule.

 

[Moritzva]

That more or less sums it up. Every argument against requires assumptions about how Wild Magic works, how Ainz's psyche works, etc, while the arguments for can be summed up in "Well, he literally resists this effect that came from another, non-World source because of his world item. That's the definition of resistance."

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

^ Those guy's? New favorite people.

 

[InfiniteSped]

This is almost reaching 500 posts btw

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Im willing to go another five hundred if I have to, Ive called in FD and dragoo

 

[Moritzva]

We should cease saying anything unneccessary. Regardless, who is in favor, who is against, and who is on the fence? Since at the moment, the community seems mostly in favor, with a few on the middle and one or two against.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Lets see I know for a fact pixel, bone, deathnoodles, yoboblue, zenkaibattery1, darkwraths, escanor, emperor doom, and myself are in favor. 9

Infintesped, Apeironaxim neutral 2

Sirlance is against. 1

Edit rather than fill this bother me on my message wall and I can directly add your votes here. That way we don't waste space.

 

[Elizhaa]

We should get a new thread since he have over 450 messages.

From Advice to the staff of the VS Battles wiki

• Post new official request threads when the old ones are starting to get full (around 400 messages), by copying the text sections of the original posts in the previous threads.

Currently, I agree with @Dargoo's evaluations:

Just to clarify, I'm fine with everything prior to the WCI resistances and stuff related to that.

 

[InfiniteSped]

Gonna make another one real quick.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

I don't think the majority or my personal opinion on the matter should rule. I feel like you both have good arguments; it might benefit to call over other Overlord supporters to chip in on these changes, like FDrybob.
If there really is an impasse and no consensus can be reached, I'll make a call, though.

Just throwing out there this was his second post. Im not sure a new thread is needed as most of this discussion is finished and it comes down to dragoo and you to decide.

 

[InfiniteSped]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3055270