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Overlord additions (Overlord Bonus Volume)

We can't we have examples of certain items blocking lower teirs, such as the throne blocking all forms of divination regardless of teirs, and we have no counter evidence of something effecting someone with a world class item that should have protected them. There are a total of three types of magic in new world, yggdrasil, wild, and world class items. So far its two out of three.

So are we just going to assume that only wild magic is blocked? Cause that overall feels cheep, in all the writings so far we have no evidence going against wci offering broader resistances but I highly doubt we'll get solid confimration for this as ainz already has a immunity to mind manip, so far we know of only two existence erasure type spells, one reality warping spell

I suppose we also have the reality wapring ring being negated by shalltear suffering from the effects of a world class item.
 
Ainz's attempt to free Shalltear with Wish Upon A Star was literally the only interaction Tier Magic has with WCIs. I think it was stated somewhere that Wish Upon A Star (a super tier magic, thus among the most powerful for Tier Magic) can't do anything (failing to grant its user's wish) when the subject is related to WCIs, so I'm not sure if that's enough evidence.
 
Actually, there's a WCI like Ouroboros, which is basically the more powerful version of Wish Upon A Star.

So, we got a reality warping (especially through wish granting) ability down as one of the WCI resistances (Ouroboros was stated that it couldn't affect a user with a WCI equipped somewhere).

Remember how Wish Upon A Star (a super-tier magic) outright failed to override the influence of a WCI?

I think that might be enough evidence that Tier magic can't overcome the resistances of WCIs, based on the only interaction that a Tier Magic has with a WCI so far. I might be wrong though.
 
I'm not objecting to WCI's being supereme in their own spheres of influence. The thing is, outside of that it seems really iffy to say that Ainz would resist any given magical effect up to World Class items when holding one, as a generally offensive spell like, let's say, Fallen Down, wouldn't be interfering with the effects of Downfall of Castle and Country, so someone using the robe would still be annihilated by the spell. Same goes for other magical effects.

It seems like you'd need to be actively using a WCI in order to block other magical effects even then, and it would need to cover the area that is affected by the spell.

I'll still need to read through each case though.
 
Our main theory at the moment is world class items offer absolute resistances to the effects of other world class items and lesser teired versions of those effects. For instance someone holding a world class item would be immune to all forms of mind control, rather than mind control just from another world class item. We havent seen this as the only mind control we've seen is from a world class item.

Of course they would be destroyed as far as we can tell there is no straight up holy damage wci, in fact all world class items are rather esoteric and range from extremly powerful to incredibly lack luster. Lets say someone used wish upon a star and wished ainz to another location, or for him to die. If we follow the logic of world class items offer absolute resistances to the effects of other world class items the magic will fail as ainz will resist it. The same way ainz ooal gown could ignore the wish to seal the mine in yagdrassil.


honestly this is a difficult subject as we have nothin showing teired magic succeeding or failing against world class item defenses specifically due to how esoteric some of them are.
 
I mean albedos world class item can smash golems and inanimate objects really well, the world class item is the equvilant of link smashing pots....

edit, as far as we can tell there are no straight damage type world class items, they all have specific and widly varying effects. One can summon demons until they swallow a world, another can delete someone from existence, another lets you change the magic system, and yet another lets you change the wrorld around you. Another lets you scry through defenses yay! But its completely useless against its defensive counterpart.
 
There's one problem though:

There isn't a offensive-based holy WCI that we know of. There is for Reality Warping (particularly the wish-granting kind), which is what Ouroboros is.

We treat WCI resistances to effects based on whether or not that WCI can perform those effects. E.g. If a transmutation WCI exists, then WCI holders should have resistance to general effects of transmutation. If it doesn't exist, then we don't assume that WCI protection could protect them from that.

As you can see, there are WCIs that can override each other's effects, but none of them could ultimately affect a WCI offensively (that I know of). There are offensive-based that outright can't do anything to a WCI holder (like the Longinus case).

That's currently how we treat WCI resistances based on what we can gather about WCI resistances.

Wish Upon A Star was the only instance of interaction that a Tier Magic has with a WCI, but its interaction doesn't contradict our educated theory of WCI resistance so far (especially due to the fact that WUAS failed). We already have a WCI that can perform a similar effect to WUAS, and that's Ouroboros.

If a Super-tier magic fails to override the effects of a WCI (while other certain WCIs can override that, but still can't outright affect a WCI offensively), why should we assume a lower-ranked tier magic could?
 
Wait a second.

The Overlord Bonus Volume isn't in the same timeline as the main series.

None of this actually applies to Ainz.
 
InfiniteSped said:
So, the new Overlord Side-Story is out, and there's some nice additions to some of the character's abilities. Now, this is technically an alternate reality story, but since Ainz already starts at lvl 100 and doesn't get any more powerful in neither of the timelines, the feats of the alternate Ainz should still scale to the main one.
Click to expand...
 
Considering ainz hasn't gained anything new in this side story we're treating it as gaining information on ainz abilities, especially since the only difference is the time when ainz arrived in new world. Its literally just a what if ainz came to new world he hasn't gained anything new while there.
 
No, it's an entirely different character. Suzuki Satarou and Ainz aren't the same person.

We shouldn't treat anything from it as new information on Ainz until it is proven that they're the same character; otherwise it's an alternate version of Ainz and the New World that we can't apply to the mainstream series.

It would be like trying to scale feats and powers between "what if" versions of characters. The assumption isn't that we do that, we need ample proof to do it first. We already don't use web novel feats.
 
Ainz is suzuki satarou, just him without being forced to act as the absolute overlord of the great tomb of nazerick. Again ainz is level one hundred from the start he never gains anything new from his expeinces in new world its the same character different timeline.
 
Dargoo Faust said:
No, it's an entirely different character. Suzuki Satarou and Ainz aren't the same person.

We shouldn't treat anything from it as new information on Ainz until it is proven that they're the same character; otherwise it's an alternate version of Ainz and the New World that we can't apply to the mainstream series.

It would be like trying to scale feats and powers between "what if" versions of characters. The assumption isn't that we do that, we need ample proof to do it first.
Click to expand...
I mean, the only difference is their personality and mindset. They don't seem to have any difference in terms of abilities and overall power...

The only notable difference is that he comes the New World earlier than the mainstream one.
 
It's still alternate continuity and is not canon to the main series. As much as I agree; our Alternative Canon and Composite Profiles and Cano rules would disallow scaling over feats, powers and weapons.

Again, we already disregard stuff from the web novel because it was invalidated by the Light Novel continutiy; this bonus chapter isn't connected to the main series in the story.

It would be like applying Superman (Strange Visitor) feats/powers to Superman (Post-Crisis) as they're the "same character, different universe".
 
I assume we don't use webnovel feats because it has totally splintered from the main timeline and now has contradictory information nothing here contradicts any abilities or feats we see in the main series.
 
The Alternate Canon and Composite Profiles link talks about the vast differences in power between alternate versions.

In this case, Satarou and Ainz has pretty much no difference in power gaps at all from what we can see. Satarou didn't get any power-ups or new items we know of in the New World, his capabilities is based exactly with what he starts off with upon being teleported into the New World (like with Ainz).

If the spells and resistances is based on what Satarou has gotten from the YGGDRASIL, I don't see why it shouldn't scale to Ainz who also has gotten his spells and resistances from YGGDRASIL.
 
The only difference between them is that Satoru was outside of Nazarick when the game ended. That's it, same level, same spells, same everything.

At the beginning of the first book, Ainz's magic was just as powerful as in volume 13, his stats and powers don't change. At most, the main Ainz is the better CQC fighter, but that's not really relevant.
 
From my undrestanding they ususally seperate things after a disparity in ablities come to light, Rimmuru took forever to be split due to the simlar nature of the power early on in the two versions. We are never going to see another side story following these two in this timeline any disparity would have already popped up, it has not.
 
From my perspective, the only difference Ainz shows is being displaced in time, not having access to anything beyond the Staff of Ainz Ooal Gown and anything that was already in his own inventory. Any differences are from him actually trying things he didn't see the need for in the series and I actually think he should be able to scale.

However Dargoo, I can better construct a more organized reason why I don't agree with the resistances regardless of alternate continuity.

Also guys, I've noticed that you seem to be having an odd perception that I didn't realize at first. Just because a WCI resists another WCI with effects you could find in a Tier Spell doesn't mean it would resist said tier spell. What I feel is happening is that you guys assume that if its something a World Item has done, regardless of source, it will be covered by the resistance. My point from the start has been made from the direction that no matter the effect, as long as its Wild Magic, it will be negated and that's it. It's not the effect, it's the fact that it's Wild Magic, or that it's a WCI, so what matters isn't the effect but the source. We can't even say if what Brightness Dragon Lord did with Wild Magic had anything to do with any of the WCI effects, but Ainz still resisted it. You would need to assume, just as you are assuming tiered spells would be negated as well, that what Ainz negated from BDL was at all related to a WCI effect. Occam's Razor starts to suffer now.
 
To exhausted to argue this at the moment, I will be back later though. I will say this though thats our whole point our new thoery is based on the idea world class items offer resistances to the effects rather than just other world class items, we came to this conclusion as ainz compared the dragon lords ability to longuis and than resisted it.

Edit we dont know what kind of magic the bdl used at all, perhaps it had an effect not covered by world class items or maybe it was., ainz literally says he fought bdl and tied while not using his trump cards and protecting evil eye. He than states he would definitly win there next encounter.


as I said multiple times before we have no evidence in the text of this not being the case.
 
Except what you are arguing is "Ainz resisted EE from two different sources, must be general" when it's really "Ainz resisted EE from very similar sources". We get told point blank Wild Magic also makes you immune to Wild Magic no matter the effect, which is the only thing that does this besides WCIs and sounds like an intrinsic property and not a general resistance.

And no, Ainz said "But if that's all he's capable of, I could beat him next time". He acknowledges he may have more up his sleeve. And no, Ainz never avoided anything. He literally says the entire point why he's putting on his WCI is that he learned from the fight with BDL that Wild Magic gets nulled by world items.

"He returned the staff into his inventory and took out the World-Class Item he usually equipped and put it on. Now, he had the protection of the world. If Cure Elim could use the same abilities as the Brightness Dragon Lord -- namely, Wild Magic -- then he would be powerless against it without this item."

Anyway, this sounds more and more like there's a shared property between Wild Magic and WCI rather than a general resistance. And the property is likely a two way street, as despite facing 2 dragon opponents which Ainz believes can actually match him, he makes no mention of using the property of his World Item that is effective against dragons.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
From my perspective, the only difference Ainz shows is being displaced in time, not having access to anything beyond the Staff of Ainz Ooal Gown and anything that was already in his own inventory. Any differences are from him actually trying things he didn't see the need for in the series and I actually think he should be able to scale.
Click to expand...
Regardless of what we decide with the resistances, I do agree that Ainz should definitely scale to what happens here
 
It would be best to discuss with Dargoo first about all the relevant changes to Ainz and see if it's still not applicable. All of those spells should totally be added, plus the way he uses the staff of Ainz Ooal Gown.

Which reminds me, Ainz can cast spells from two sides, the staff massively boosts him, he is using all of his best gear and gear especially effective against undead and dragons and still he had to use his special skill, super tier Magic, two cash shop items and metamagic triple cast of his strongest normal spell. Dragon Lords are absurd.
 
Nop, Ainz was simply worried that Cure had undead controlling abilities far beyond his own due to the number of zombies he controlled. Therefore, he was very scared Cure's Turn Undead, if he had such an ability, would be stronger than Ainz Turn Undead resistance and take control of him, especially when Cure dragged him inside the ball of zombies.

Also... Shouldn't Cure get the biggest death resistance in the novel? He's at the center of the Death Cyclone of La-Shub-Nigguruth enhanced by TGOALiD and he's alive after. But that could have been a mistake on Muramaya's part since Ainz was only aiming to kill his armor of zombies and didn't make any remarks about Cure having special instant death resistances like he did for Time Stop resistance.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
Also... Shouldn't Cure get the biggest death resistance in the novel? He's at the center of the Death Cyclone of La-Shub-Nigguruth enhanced by TGOALiD and he's alive after. But that could have been a mistake on Muramaya's part since Ainz was only aiming to kill his armor of zombies and didn't make any remarks about Cure having special instant death resistances like he did for Time Stop resistance.
Click to expand...
The name of this trump card was "[The Goal Of All Life Is Dick]." Don't you mean dick resistance?
 
But that meant nothing to Suzuki Satoru. That was because Cure Elim's true form was completely exposed at last.That mass of undead creatures had truly been made in imitation of Cure Elim's body. They looked very similar, but his true form looked very graceful in comparison. It was an undead Dragon, with a body like a feline predator, whose legs and neck were both very long.

It could be a mistake on Maruyama's part, or maybe the AOE can't penetrate past a certain point, since it seems like Ainz wasn't counting on it working on Cure, only destroying the undead that were on him
 
It's a bit of a weird issue, but let's discuss it after all this.

I mean, Cure should look like a D*ck with that head and long neck. What's like you can't touch you?

And oh, I got confused. You meant the 250 km soul rip? I don't know where that happened so I can't say if Ainz was even in the effect range. But Cure never used anything like that when Ainz was checking him out and during the battle.
 
I'm just trying to figure what Ainz would still get if we went your way, and the only resistance left I can think of is Soul Manip resistance, but I'm not sure
 
Wait... Did we give him turn undead resistance? It is pretty much mind control, but it's also used to hurt undead as shown from it's D&D origin and even in Konosuba.
 
Isn't Ainz already immune/resistant to any mental spell?

Does something about Turn Undead make it special enough as to be mentioned specifically?
 
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