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Overlord additions (Overlord Bonus Volume)

He doesn't know the abilities of the dragon lord, Again his plan was to make his opponent underestimate him the same thing he did in yggdrasil again you offer no evidence just your thoughts on how ainz would react.

Its not like he's tested the abilities of world class items against wild magic before, he fought the pdl without using his trump cards, and protecting evileye, he wasn't doing a hell of a lot of experiment especially since he doesn't know his opponents abilities. He knows wild magic is dangerous and powerful. He knows dragons have a bunch of resistances. He doesn't have ample knowledge on the interactions between wild magic and yggdrasil. Even current ainz with his vast knowledge base only has had interaction with a sword created by wild magic.

He knows the item will protect him but the resistances we are talking about? They aren't things he even knows the coffin dragon lord can use. Why would he comment on existiece erasure resistance when he doesn't know if the dragon has such an ability, why would he mention bfr and reality warping abilities when again he knows nothing about his foes abilitities. These arent things that will make up for his lackluster eqiupment not giving him good resistances. Infact none of the things mentioned above are covered by his standard equipment outside the world class item. The item isn't making up for anything because its not offering the same resistances as his equipment.

We haven't seen a world class item that literally just does fire/frost/lightning damage, the world class items are pretty niche and weird in that sense, even albedos weapon is mostly useful for smashing inanimate objects and constructs. Its special ability is literally the zeld spin smashing pots.

All he knows about his enemey is that he is a dragon lord of some kind nothing else, he went in with a simple plan to deceive and gather infromation .
 
Why wouldn't he when his resistances are so atrociously low he risks getting himself killed before he can even fight? Why do you think he was so wary and scared by the number of undead Cure could control? Because it could mean his undead control ability was way, way higher than Ainz and he himself could be affected. He didn't even go in explicitly with subpar equipment, but the equipment from the Corpus of the Abyss. He didn't think at all that the Dragon could be able to understand what rings he had just by merely covering them, why would he think the World Item would be any different, which he obviously didn't as he didn't bother to cover up the World Item while he covered the rings when he goes to battle?

I am not sure why this matters. He directly realizes and knows that World Items shield him from Wild Magic after his battle with BDL. The alternative is likely dying because of his lowered resistances, making everything moot, just because of worrying about Cure noticing when he seems to think he only needs to not let him see his rings. Any misstep means Ainz is dead and that is way worse than holding off on his more powerful options because of unfounded worries or holding resources back for the future, which Ainz himself notes. Even more, we see him using this orb on his person nearly all the time, we know he had it on when he battled BDL otherwise he wouldn't know of the resistance, why does this change in the very instant where he's most likely to die if he screws up because of resistances, the thing that the WCI would neatly cover up and he has no reason at all to think the Dragon would notice at all? You speak of him being wary but his method of being wary of his gems is just using gloves, so what you are saying is merely your own justification.

Do you know what's the justification for WCI being general defenses in the first place? That something unrelated to them triggers the resistance... But then that unrelated things works EXACTLY like World Items and doesn't seem unrelated at all, besides the fact they aren't items but spells.

The only other justification would be a World Item protecting an user from any effects that aren't World Items, which has never been shown outside of Wild Magic in the Bonus Volume. So suddenly the justification loses ground.
 
But just to point out quickly, no, my point was that under this proposal WCI shield from all effects, even from tiered magic, because we can assume their resistance isn't merely to WCI. If we decide to use these resistances like general resistances then there's literally no reason to assume it can't resist Tier Magic stuff, because that's just magic as well. Or what, we decide it only resists magic that uses souls? Cast by dragons? This is cherry picking, so either it's a general resistance and it resists stuff from even Tiered Magic or it only works on other WCis and Wild Magic and nothing else even if equalized.

Yet Ainz doesn't use it to cover his Turn Undead Resistance, merely using his natural resistance and hoping dearly it works. He doesn't use it to resist his Wild Magic penetrating his scrying defenses after deciding to assume that's something he could do, when a WCI would defend against that under this proposal. He's wary of the rings, but he's only wary about the Cure recognizing what they do because Dragons like treasure and merely covers them up, nothing that would merit him not using the WCI.

And this all doesn't change the most glaring flaw in his "he's just being careful" argument, that he doesn't even entertain the thought! Ainz quite commonly, like literally every time, ponders about alternatives at the very least. He'll explain his reasons to himself or think about them. If he really was so worried about his resistances and WCIs resisted anything that wasn't related to damage, he would have at the very least given that the slightest thought, but he doesn't! Not one second! And trying to explain that away feels like rationalizing a cause from nothing.
 
From what I can tell, only dumb zombies don't have souls, the intelligent ones have. Evileye only seems to be smart because she absorbed her parent's souls.

Reagarding Ainz's resistances, he didn't have the WCI equipped when he first faced the ECDL iirc, so that's why he should be worried about his resistances.
 
But... that's the entire point. He shouldn't be worried if he can just equip it, and he has no reason to not equip it since dying is obviously worse than "potentially without any basis" taking a WCI from him. Especially when he thinks just covering his jewels is enough for Cure to not be able to tell he has them, or what they are.

The fact that he has it almost all the time otherwise ans that he didn't even think about the possibility of using it cements it.
 
Well Im sick of this argument that only seems to go in a circle, how could it cover his turn undead resistance? As far as I understand turn undead is literally the holy equivilant of death magic, as it simply tells the undead to stop, even if we assume existience erasure it assumed to only destroy low teir undead. its not reality warping, exisitence erasure or any of the other resistances mentioned above the world class item wont make up for his lack of defenses as it only covers very ninche things. In yggdrasil there was only one exisitence erasure item, there was only one scrying item that could peirce normal defenses. Your basically asking why didnt he ware robes that offered holy or fire immunity against his opponent he didn't know what would work.


Your whole argument relies on ainz thinking and doing somehting and explaining his reasoning all things ainz is terrible at doing in cannon. "Going to face possibly dangerous dragon lord in dwarven city, My magic item is potent against dragon" Ainz wait what? How what the hell does it do?! The reader doesn't know!

Hell he doesn't mention or use this supposed ability against either of the dragon lords even though we know from the main series it has an efffect thats incredibly useful against dragons. Right there he fails to mention this relevant and extremely useful peice of infromation that has only come up once in the main sereies this isn't ainz first time completly failing to tell the aduaince somehthing of great impact and usefulness.


Edit: I think the biggest problem here is we want evidence from the text that goes agianst this other interpetation, something that shows a world class item not protecting you from other teirs of magic. There is none, nothing solid or concrete you can point to and say see! You have a lack of ainz mentioning it....Thats it.


Even if we assume your right we aren't liable to get any evidence for your claim in the next two volumes, as the next one will focus on slowing down after the intensenes of the last book and will most likely focus on the restize kingdom, renar climb and braine. The volume after that will most likely be build and set up for whoever ainz is deailing with next. So at best we have nearly a year and a half of wait before we're liable to get contradictory evidence and even than considering in the last thirteen volumes we havent gotten any were not liable to get any in the future. Even the webcomic as noncannon as it is never gave any evidence to world class items not defending against all other teirs...


Ignoring all that lets puut this mess to a vote all in favor of ainz gaining these resistances say ainz fra. All apposed say nay fra.
 
Soul rip and existence erasure, pretty potent combo... as I said lets leave this to a vote your not convincing me and Im not convincing you at this point, I feel we've spouted the same argument four times now. We'll let the general consensus decide.
 
Do we? I assumed we wouldn't need that until we got the general consensus while I haven't seen anyone arguing for sir lance side perhaps he convinced someone, lets see what everyone agrees on before dragging the staff into this....
 
So which is it?

Getting resistance to each of the WCI abilities, or just Cure's EE and Soul Rip?

Or are we still deciding?
 
Like I said Above we couldnt agree and basically made the same argument back and forth a bunch of times so now lets leave it.

Edit, Ive contacted a bunch of staff on their boards we'll see what they think.
 
I honestly don't see why WCI resistance doesn't apply to non-WCI effects.

Wild Magic doesn't operate within YGGDRASIL's systems, and was heavily implied to operate differently from Tier Magic, such as when Fluder stayed that the Dragon Lord's Wild Magic could be used to resurrect the dead without losing life force like what Tier Magic does (the fact that Wild Magic aren't subjected to the same limitation as Tier Magic does when it comes to resurrection already shows that it operates differently), so I don't think we can apply the same mechanics of Tier Magic to Wild Magic. And last I've checked, there weren't any abilities/effects that Tier Magic uses that contradicts WCI resistances by being able to affect the WCI users anyways (especially if they have their WCI equipped).

And as far as I could tell, unless Maruyama reveals all the names and capabilities of WCIs, I don't see how WCI users can be affected by non-WCI effects that operates similarly to the already pre-existing WCIs (I don't think 200 WCIs can cover every single effects and hax in YGGDRASIL, as there could be some that operates similarly to one another). We don't even know the full list of the WCIs and what they do.

Say, if a transmutation WCI exists and a transmutation Tier Magic was able to affect a WCI user even with their WCI equipped, that's when we should consider the idea that WCI resistances only applies to other WCIs and Wild Magic. As far as I can tell, there is more evidence that supports WCI resistance applying to general effects rather than just other WCIs or Wild Magic. I might wrong though, but I'm going with what I have observed so far.

All FRA I guess.


We really need some staff input into this.
 
Ive sent messages! But a few aren't confident in overlord, Ive called on dragoo as well so now its about waiting.

Ill also add that is the exact point ive made twelve times, we have no solid evidence against it. Even the throne blocks all forms of divination magic!
 
Well majority seems to be leaning towards resistances, as we have no evidence agianst them giving general resistances and the latest volume shows resisting effects of world class items can effect other forms of magic. Sirlance argument relies on us assuming equvlance between wild magic and wcl. wheres dragoo when you need him :p
 
The pen or the sword said:
Well majority seems to be leaning towards resistances, as we have no evidence agianst them giving general resistances and the latest volume shows resisting effects of world class items can effect other forms of magic. Sirlance argument relies on us assuming equvlance between wild magic and wcl. wheres dragoo when you need him :p
Click to expand...
If this point is the case then I agree with the resistances.
 
If your truely unsure read some of the above arguments, theres not much change between them sirlance has been the only one to disagree with adding the resistances.
 
On a side note, wouldn't Longinus be something like an upgrade to EE or outright Void Manipulation?

it's supossed that it utterly erases and removes the target (and their data) from reality and makes it absolutely impossible to revert it's effects with anything other than using some WI, hell, if it was used on an NPC, it would even reduce the LVL cap of a guild base
 
Ehh thats to speculative to be clear we've come to the conclusion with this upgrade ainz will gain all the following resistances.

"existenc erasure resistance, reality warping resistance, bfr resistance, soul destruction resistance, and sealing resistance."
 
Also better Mind Manip resistance because of Downfall of Castle and Country, as they would resist something that bypasses resistances right?
 
InfiniteSped said:
If this is accepted, Ainz, and all the Floor Guardians that carry World Class Items, should get resistance to Existence Erasure (from Longinus and the Dragon Lord's attack), Sealing (due to being able to walk through Ouroboros's and Depiction of Nature and Society's sealing effects), and probably whatever other effects other World Class Items were shown to have.
Click to expand...
Why would this resistance apply to anything that is not a World-Class item?

I mean, yeah, I guess you can technically add it to the profile (or just put in powers/abilities "Resists the effects of World Class items by carrying one").

The rest looks fine to me, although it could use some cleaning up/proofreading.
 
Apeironaxim said:
Also better Mind Manip resistance because of Downfall of Castle and Country, as they would resist something that bypasses resistances right?
Click to expand...
Do we even scale potency of resistance by a character resisting something that bypasses resistance, especially in regards to mind hax?
 
The evileye side story has him resisting an existence erasure (and sould destruction) effect from wild magic showing the resistances granted by world class items don't only apply to other world class items they can effect other forms of magic.

ps Plus the throne offers absolute resistance to all observation magic including those of a lesser teir.
 
WCI resistance was able to apply to Wild Magic, which isn't even a WCI. And Wild Magic isn't even a magic that exists within the systems of YGGDRASIL, as well as operating differently from Tier Magic.
 
Yeah this whole debate is us reworking our understanding of the defenses granted by world class items due to them doing something that shouldn't be possible if they only offered resistances to other wcl, the main theory most agree on here is the idea they instead offer an absolute defense buff that applies to the effect of other world class items.


This would grant ainz and all gaurdians the following : "existenc erasure resistance, reality warping resistance, bfr resistance, soul destruction resistance, mind manipulation resistance and sealing resistance."

Edit I would also add we have no evidence going against this new theory in any of the text, even the noncannon webnovels never give contradictory evidence to this new theory. The only reason we orignally assumed the defenses only stretched to other world class items was due to the lack of evidence showing them defending against something else, something we see in the side story.
 
The pen or the sword said:
"existenc erasure resistance, reality warping resistance, bfr resistance, soul destruction resistance, mind manipulation resistance and sealing resistance."
Click to expand...
I think Ainz should get resistance to Soul Manipulation in general rather than just soul destruction. From what I can remember, ECDL had an AoE ability that allows him to rip the souls out of everything within 250 kilometres (rather than just outright destroying them. I think him consuming them was also implied that he sucks in their souls first), and his Soulbreaker Breath attack was heavily implied to be more powerful than that. That implies the resistance isn't just limited to just the destruction of the soul.
 
Makes sense So they would gain

existenc erasure resistance, reality warping resistance, bfr resistance, soul destruction resistance, soul manipulation resistance, mind manipulation resistance, and sealing resistance
 
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