One-Punch Man: Remove Your Limits! (Willpower and The Limiter)

[Kachon123]

This has been a long time coming. Here is the sandbox draft for the Limiter page.

Kachon123/Willpower and the Limiter (One-Punch Man)

vsbattles.fandom.com

What this means:

• Those with their limiter broken can grow their AP, Speed, and Lifting Strength indefinitely to any finite number with their accelerated development
• Garou would get an 'potentially up to 3-A with Power Mimicry or Accelerated Development' rating on his profile due to this.
• Saitama would get an 'potentially up to 3-A with Accelerated Development' rating on his profile due to this.

 

[Excellence616]

I agree

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Disagree FRA

 

[Recon1511]

I agree, of course

 

[That_moron2]

Disagree FRA

It seems this has been rejected then. @Damage3245 close this.

 

[LordGinSama]

Disagree because that title is gay.


Neutral for now.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Saitama would get an 'potentially up to 3-A with Accelerated Development' rating on his profile due to this.

If we do give them this rating Garou wouldn't get this. His limiter was never confirmed as broken afaik and more importantly the only reason he increased in strength at the end of the fight was because he copied Saitama. His natural growth isn't even close to an 18x increase so a 3-A increase is out of the question.

Saitama getting it is vaguely fine but also not really. The gap between his rating now and 3-A is like 3e+23 and 8e+25. While he might be able to get to 3-A you're still talking about a rather major time investment to get there. So how combat applicable it is can be questioned imo and you can't assume he can bridge a gap to 3-B or 3-A before being one shot.

The rest I think is alright.

 

[Epiccheev]

I wish it also gave acausality type 4. All cool characters have acausality type 4

 

[Maitreya12]

This has been a long time coming. Here is the sandbox draft for the Limiter page.

Kachon123/Willpower and the Limiter (One-Punch Man)

vsbattles.fandom.com

What this means:

• Those with their limiter broken can grow their AP, Speed, and Lifting Strength indefinitely to any finite number with their accelerated development
• Garou would get an 'potentially up to 3-A with Power Mimicry or Accelerated Development' rating on his profile due to this.
• Saitama would get an 'potentially up to 3-A with Accelerated Development' rating on his profile due to this.

I remember making a thread like this for Garou’s AD as one of my first CRT’s on the wiki. Man that takes me back

Good shit, I agree.

 

[Kin201]

I remember making a thread like this for Garou’s AD as one of my first CRT’s on the wiki. Man that takes me back

Good shit, I agree.

You would've likely had that CRT accepted if this one had been established back then. Otherwise, people will claim NLF.

 

[Kachon123]

If we do give them this rating Garou wouldn't get this. His limiter was never confirmed as broken afaik and more importantly the only reason he increased in strength at the end of the fight was because he copied Saitama. His natural growth isn't even close to an 18x increase so a 3-A increase is out of the question.

Saitama getting it is vaguely fine but also not really. The gap between his rating now and 3-A is like 3e+23 and 8e+25. While he might be able to get to 3-A you're still talking about a rather major time investment to get there. So how combat applicable it is can be questioned imo and you can't assume he can bridge a gap to 3-B or 3-A before being one shot.

The rest I think is alright.

I'm fine with removing the 'up to Accelerated Development' for both Garou and Saitama, since that was my initial idea.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I'm fine with removing the 'up to Accelerated Development' for both Garou and Saitama, since that was my initial idea.

Infinite AD with Saitama is fine, I just think 3-A Saitama is questionable at the moment.

 

[Kachon123]

Infinite AD with Saitama is fine, I just think 3-A Saitama is questionable at the moment.

I know. I'm just saying that I'm fine with removing noting it for AP, a it isn't really applicable. That's something that should be noted as the justification for the ability itself.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Let's not forget that Garou literally said he'd copy Saitama limitlessly, which does seem to be rather relevant here

 

[LordGinSama]

So with this are we assuming that they can copy up to 3-A stuff?

What about LS? Don't recall them ever replicating that.

 

[Epiccheev]

If we do give them this rating Garou wouldn't get this. His limiter was never confirmed as broken afaik and more importantly the only reason he increased in strength at the end of the fight was because he copied Saitama. His natural growth isn't even close to an 18x increase so a 3-A increase is out of the question.

Saitama getting it is vaguely fine but also not really. The gap between his rating now and 3-A is like 3e+23 and 8e+25. While he might be able to get to 3-A you're still talking about a rather major time investment to get there. So how combat applicable it is can be questioned imo and you can't assume he can bridge a gap to 3-B or 3-A before being one shot.

The rest I think is alright.

Yeah, Saitama is the only one who straight up removed his limiter permanently. Iirc Garou only has a "limiter starting to break" statement once in his monster form. God form is external power being imparted into him as far as we know.

 

[Kachon123]

So with this are we assuming that they can copy up to 3-A stuff?

What about LS? Don't recall them ever replicating that.

Garou is the only person with copying abilities.

As for the limiter itself, it caps physical strength, which includes AP, LS, Speed, and other related things. Removing it would allow these to grow indefinitely as explained in the sandbox.

 

[Raiden38]

I agree

 

[Recon1511]

If we do give them this rating Garou wouldn't get this. His limiter was never confirmed as broken afaik and more importantly the only reason he increased in strength at the end of the fight was because he copied Saitama. His natural growth isn't even close to an 18x increase so a 3-A increase is out of the question

Are you saying that Garou never broke his Limiter? Really? Just because the narrator didn't appear again to say "Garou totally broke it guys!" doesn't mean he clearly did.

Worse than that, if we assume that Garou's limiter was actually in the 4-A/3-C range then why the hell Darkshine of all people would be the one that finally pushes him to "start to break his limiter"?

Yeah, Saitama is the only one who straight up removed his limiter permanently. Iirc Garou only has a "limiter starting to break" statement once in his monster form. God form is external power being imparted into him as far as we know.

Garou's copy ability is entirely his own, what God did was grant him knowledge of all the forces in the universe to enable him to "Mode" anything thanks to understanding every force in the universe now.

In order to be able to copy AP so high his Limiter must have been removed unless you are saying his Limiter was 4-A/3-C this whole time, which is ridiculous.

And yes this does mean that with enough Martial Arts bullshit people in OPM can replicate nukes with their fists

 

[Epiccheev]

I'm gonna cut your cells and atoms with my ki

 

[Kin201]

Well, I think Qaws is only disagreeing with Garou having AD as good as Saitama's. He agrees with Garou copying up to 3-A I guess.

 

[Franako]

I agree

 

[Kin201]

Let's not forget that Garou literally said he'd copy Saitama limitlessly, which does seem to be rather relevant here

This can probably be used as supporting evidence yeah.

 

[Quantu]

Definitely agree with removing the AD cap for broken limiters.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Are you saying that Garou never broke his Limiter? Really?

Yes. Especially when it goes against God to break your limiter and Garou became his avatar.

Worse than that, if we assume that Garou's limiter was actually in the 4-A/3-C range then why the hell Darkshine of all people would be the one that finally pushes him to "start to break his limiter"?

Its not, his limiter was with his Gargoyle Form. His CF Mode is when God gave him a massive power boost and he began to copy stats.

In addition limiters aren't directly AP related, since Saitama began breaking his limiter by doing basic exorcises. It going past your limits and reaching near death experiences.

He agrees with Garou copying up to 3-A I guess.

I'm fine with him going to 3-A with copying. I'm not fine with saying he'll naturally reach 3-A given time, since he couldn't even do an 18x power boost without copying someone else.

 

[LNZO19]

I agree with Qawsed here since before Garou began copying Saitama he was already outclassed by FP Saitama. This is before Saitama's AD even kicked in. Saitama's AD only really started kicking after Garou was matching him with his copying.

Also, this is with God's amp because before that his AD couldn't grow fast enough to keep up with Saitama sandbagging him basically.

 

[Tural2004]

I 100% agree. But I am pretty sure they should also get reactive evolution. And I wonder where all this leaves God at.

His limiter was never confirmed as broken afaik

This is true. However, we already know he was starting to break his limiter and that's why we know he has the capability to do so. It is a "Heads I win, tails you lose" situation. Either he has already broken his limiter and can grow indefinitely or he hits his limit during a battle and breaks it.

His natural growth isn't even close to an 18x increase so a 3-A increase is out of the question.

We only use 18x because that's the number we can get from the chart. Saitama was about to sneeze Garou away with a 3x difference in the same chart.

Garou has already shown much bigger growth than 18x previously. Time investment isn't an issue either considering Garou can reach blitz and one-shot his equals within 13 milliseconds. Numbers are arbitrary but you would need some serious lowball to make values not reach 3-A within an hour. And that Garou is a joke compared to his cosmic form.

 

[Qawsedf234]

This is true. However, we already know he was about to start to break his limiter and that's why we has he has the capability to do so. It is a "Heads I win, tails you lose" situation. Either he has already broken his limiter and can grow indefinitely or he hits his limit during a battle and breaks it.

But he never broke his limiter. He never made it past that final wall and instead gave in to God and got his powers.

Going past your limiter also requires more than just battle, its about your attitude and going past stuff. Garou never got far enough to ever break his limiter, only damage it before he was changed.

That Garou is a joke compared to his cosmic form.

That Garou was also breaking his limiter, rather than being turned into a Divine Avatar. Even if the previous form is a joke, it functions differently.

 

[Tural2004]

But he never broke his limiter. He never made it past that final wall and instead gave in to God and got his powers.

Going past your limiter also requires more than just battle, its about your attitude and going past stuff. Garou never got far enough to ever break his limiter, only damage it before he was changed.

Hmm... I guess this is fair.

That Garou was also breaking his limiter, rather than being turned into a Divine Avatar. Even if the previous form is a joke, it functions differently.

Transforming into a monster displaces your limiter so that Garou was most definitely not breaking it. Besides, it is a matter of willpower and Garou's growth has always gotten better and better through transformations. It makes zero sense that his growth rate suddenly got worse.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Transforming into a monster displaces your limiter so that Garou was most definitely not breaking it. Besides, it is a matter of willpower and Garou's growth has always gotten better and better through transformations. It makes zero sense that his growth rate suddenly got worse.

I did a list before:

• Half Monster: 1.9832e+12 Joules -> 4.184e+17 joules (210,972x) (Took a couple hours / half day)
• Post-DS: 4.184e+17 joules -> 2.37651195e+28 Joules (56,799,998,804x) (Happened within an hour or two at most)
• CF Garou: 18.5x accepted as his upscale value (his AD can't seemingly cover the gap between 4-C/4-B to 4-A which is a 616 Quadrillion to 70 Trillion) (happened in one fight)

But after his CF Mode his AD just collapsed pretty hard. We also know it did because in that same bar graph we see Garou and Saitama's strength before he begins to adapt to Saitama constantly and its basically just a straight line with no known increase.

It got worse but its still there.

 

[Tural2004]

his AD can't seemingly cover the gap between 4-C/4-B to 4-A which is a 616 Quadrillion to 70 Trillion

But he never even got a chance for that, to begin with. He straight up went for copying.

We also know it did because in that same bar graph we see Garou and Saitama's strength before he begins to adapt to Saitama constantly and its basically just a straight line with no known increase

Because Garou's growth isn't passive. He won't grow without being pushed or something else and both of them we equals at the start. Besides, I want to repeat that the graph is the absolute minimum rather than definite numbers.

And there is still nothing dismissing this:

Besides, it is a matter of willpower and Garou's growth has always gotten better and better through transformations

 

[Qawsedf234]

But he never even got a chance for that, to begin with. He straight up went for copying.

But even after copying he never demonstrates the same level of increase that he did before.

I want to repeat that the graph is the absolute minimum rather than definite numbers.

The graph hurts Garou because he see the previous line. It shows that even before the graph started they were mostly equal, meaning that after he copied a serious Saitama there was no notable strength increase for him.

And there is still nothing dismissing this:

The main issue is because he's a Divine Avatar. Breaking your limiter is going against God, something this Garou just can't do really.

The previous forms had a better shot at breaking his limiter and he still failed because he lost his determination after meeting Saitama.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I don't think up to 3-A works unless we either get more specific universe busting statements and/or feats.

 

[KingTempest]

Like everyone else, 3-A is ehh

But everything else is fine to me

 

[Kin201]

I don't think up to 3-A works unless we either get more specific universe busting statements and/or feats.

Aren't statements like Infinite Growth/Potential enough? As long as they aren't hyperbole of course.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Aren't statements like Infinite Growth/Potential enough? As long as they aren't hyperbole of course.

There exist Tier 9 characters with statements like that so it's still a stretch. Nothing against maybe getting a 3-A rating eventually if there are feats and/or statements more grounded. But a simple "Has no known limit to getting stronger" is not enough to just blindly give out 3-A ratings.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I don't think up to 3-A works unless we either get more specific universe busting statements and/or feats.

Like everyone else, 3-A is ehh

But everything else is fine to me

Can someone explain how being able to copy 3-A is up for debate when it's made extremely explicit that the only limit for growth is the limiter?

 

[Raiden38]

Non penso che fino a 3-A funzioni a meno che non otteniamo dichiarazioni e/o imprese più specifiche per distruggere l'universo.

but if I'm not mistaken you put me luffy low 5b without there being any statements, declarations or undertakings that lead us to assume this even from the anime I'll throw this example out there

 

[ZillertheBucko]

There exist Tier 9 characters with statements like that so it's still a stretch. Nothing against maybe getting a 3-A rating eventually if there are feats and/or statements more grounded. But a simple "Has no known limit to getting stronger" is not enough to just blindly give out 3-A ratings.

This is not "has no known limit to getting stronger" this is "is known to have no limit to getting stronger"
Are you seriously arguing that the limiter just exists as a barrier before they can max out at some other arbitrary finite growth cap when it's directly stated that they don't have any such limit?

 

[Huesito88]

but if I'm not mistaken you put me luffy low 5b without there being any statements, declarations or undertakings that lead us to assume this even from the anime I'll throw this example out there

From what I'm getting from your statement (the grammar is kinda meh), that's a complete false equivalence, and also Whataboutism