Tatsumaki's changes.

[Coomandar]

Lets start this talking about espers' weakness mentioned by Gale Wind. As mentioned by the latter, an esper's weakness is basically his/her reaction speed. And we have discussed already about the possibility of Tatsumaki having ''passive shields'' so she wouldn't just get blitzed by any faster mid tier character, like Gale Wind, Hellfire Flame... But this was dennied.

* And then we got the Narrator speaking with us in this sequence "1" "2" "3". He specifically says that none in earth (excluding Blast and Saitama) at that time could hope to defeat Tatsumaki in a frontal attack, meaning that she would just be as fast as Flashy Flash and the Monsterized Ninjas. And some people will probably say "this is just the hero association Point of View"... And this is wrong because we also have the Narrator specifically talking about the Hero Association ''POV'', which is "She is treated as the association final weapon". And the Narrator ~kept~ ~ communicating~ with us after that scan. And i sent the latter two scans just to reinforce that this was a statement made by the Narrator himself.

* And then we've got the compatibility's system made by Psykos, who is a very reliable and good source. Herself said that this system would not work on Tatsumaki, and this having in mind that Psykos knows that Espers' weakness is just their speed, because she is also an esper, if she was able to create a strategy in order counter to every's hero ability i doubt that she wouldnt know about her own weakness spot. Anyway, even thought she had Gale Wind and Hellfire Flame ready to fight, she didn't sent those two to fight Tatsumaki because they would fail, this just reinforces the narrator's statement. And i doubt that Gyoro-Gyoro/Psykos did not Know about the ninjas potential speed, since she is a great power analyzer.

/ Proposal: scale Tatsumaki to Flashy Flash (not above) at the point where she can fight him, so the Narrator statement is not ignored, or atleast scale her to the Monsterized Ninjas.

PsykosOrochi and Genos included.

 

[Nierre]

why is it all bolded.

 

[Coomandar]

why is it all bolded.

i always create my crt's like this, theres no reason behind it.

 

[Phoenks]

I could maybe agree with her reaction speed being that high but as for her combat/travel speed, nah. All she needs to beat Flash is react in time before he could reach her in a frontal assault, either putting up a barrier or killing him instantly.

Espers are weak to speed, which is something that the webcomic shows in more detail, as Tatsumaki was easily blitzed by the likes of Golden Sperm.

Though, ignoring that entirely, Tatsumaki doesn't really have any basis to scale to that amount of speed in anything but reactions.

She's never portrayed as being an incredibly fast hero. Saitama for example never comments on her being fast throughout their fight, which is something he at least gave to Flash, and something he gives a reaction to when fighting Boros.

Flash also seemingly never thought anyone was as fast as him until he met Blast, Garou, Platinum S, and Saitama.

If Tatsumaki was truly as fast or faster than him I believe he would've already had her in the conversation.

There's also just the possibility that Tatsumaki has a passive forcefield around her.

Which is a claim I think is a lot more reasonable than saying she can either react or move as fast as someone like Flash...

 

[Coomandar]

I could maybe agree with her reaction speed being that high but as for her combat/travel speed, nah. All she needs to beat Flash is react in time before he could reach her in a frontal assault, either putting up a barrier or killing him instantly.

Espers are weak to speed, which is something that the webcomic shows in more detail, as Tatsumaki was easily blitzed by the likes of Golden Sperm.

Though, ignoring that entirely, Tatsumaki doesn't really have any basis to scale to that amount of speed in anything but reactions.

She's never portrayed as being an incredibly fast hero. Saitama for example never comments on her being fast throughout their fight, which is something he at least gave to Flash, and something he gives a reaction to when fighting Boros.

Flash also seemingly never thought anyone was as fast as him until he met Blast, Garou, Platinum S, and Saitama.

If Tatsumaki was truly as fast or faster than him I believe he would've already had her in the conversation.

There's also just the possibility that Tatsumaki has a passive forcefield around her.

Which is a claim I think is a lot more reasonable than saying she can either react or move as fast as someone like Flash...

Actually my proporsal is for reaction speed, i wouldnt have any problems with ''at least massively hypersonic+ movement speed with at least ftl reactions''.

 

[Coomandar]

I could maybe agree with her reaction speed being that high but as for her combat/travel speed, nah. All she needs to beat Flash is react in time before he could reach her in a frontal assault, either putting up a barrier or killing him instantly.

Espers are weak to speed, which is something that the webcomic shows in more detail, as Tatsumaki was easily blitzed by the likes of Golden Sperm.

Though, ignoring that entirely, Tatsumaki doesn't really have any basis to scale to that amount of speed in anything but reactions.

She's never portrayed as being an incredibly fast hero. Saitama for example never comments on her being fast throughout their fight, which is something he at least gave to Flash, and something he gives a reaction to when fighting Boros.

Flash also seemingly never thought anyone was as fast as him until he met Blast, Garou, Platinum S, and Saitama.

If Tatsumaki was truly as fast or faster than him I believe he would've already had her in the conversation.

There's also just the possibility that Tatsumaki has a passive forcefield around her.

Which is a claim I think is a lot more reasonable than saying she can either react or move as fast as someone like Flash...

also, even thought it was a comical moment we have this just to show that her speed is no joke.

and i see no problems with her having ftl reactions, this would also fit the narrator statement.

she could just react to flashy and kill him with her tk, she doesnt need to have faster movement speed... And Tatsumaki is as fast as Flashy in the webcomic and he never went after her lol


and the passive shield thing was dennied.

+ she wasn't blitzed by GS, she did put up a barrier before he landed a hit on her, he even mentioned it. And this was her at her weakest.

 

[Coomandar]

Saying that she does not have that reaction speed is the same as saying that Flashy can defeat her in a frontal attack, which is the opposite from what the Narrator said.

 

[Kachon123]

I disagree with Tatsumaki scaling to Flashy Flash completely.

If we take this statement at face value, why would we stop at Flashy Flash? Why not Saitama as well? Since this apparently isn't the Hero Association's POV, why would we omit Saitama from this statement?

Obviously, Tatsumaki scaling to Saitama is ridiculous, so her scaling to Flashy Flash via that same statement holds no weight either.


As for Psykos' statement, as things stand on the profiles right now, she wasn't lying. Monster Hellfire Flame and Gale scale to Sub-Relativistic (3610594.23 m/s), while Tatsumaki scales above Psykos' Massively Hypersonic+ Beams (2496360 m/s). The difference in speed between them is less than 1.45x, meaning that Tatsumaki should already be able to react to their top speeds without being blitzed.

 

[Coomandar]

I disagree with Tatsumaki scaling to Flashy Flash completely.

If we take this statement at face value, why would we stop at Flashy Flash? Why not Saitama as well? Since this apparently isn't the Hero Association's POV, why would we omit Saitama from this statement?

ignoring that the narrator is omniscient, i don’t think he needs to say something that we all know. And this is clearly not a POV, i gave you the entire sequence.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

ignoring that the narrator is omniscient,

saitama

 

[Phsccarvalho]

saitama

Blast

 

[Kachon123]

ignoring that the narrator is omniscient, i don’t think he needs to say something that we all know. And this is clearly not a POV, i gave you the entire sequence.

This doesn't disprove anything I just said.

Of course it's obvious that Tatsumaki doesn't scale to Saitama's speed or AP just because of that statement, but the fact that she can't scale to him automatically questions this statement's validity due to how indiscriminately worded it is.

"Nothing in the world could hope to defeat [Tatsumaki] in a frontal attack." It's obviously wrong because Saitama beats her. Why would we say that it's accurate for anyone else?

 

[Coomandar]

This doesn't disprove anything I just said.

Of course it's obvious that Tatsumaki doesn't scale to Saitama's speed or AP just because of that statement, but the fact that she can't scale to him automatically questions this statement's validity due to how indiscriminately worded it is.

"Nothing in the world could hope to defeat [Tatsumaki] in a frontal attack." It's obviously wrong because Saitama beats her. Why would we say that it's accurate for anyone else?

because it’s the Narrator speaking?

or are you also going to deny Garou GRB’s power even with the narrator commenting on it?


as i said, he doesn’t need to say what is obvious, he just says what he want us to know.

 

[Coomandar]

we cannot use just the statements we want to use

 

[Kachon123]

because it’s the Narrator speaking?

or are you also going to deny Garou GRB’s power even with the narrator commenting on it?


as i said, he doesn’t need to say what is obvious, he just says what he want us to know.

Except the Narrator's statement has been contradicted. Has Garou's GRB statement been contradicted?

 

[Kachon123]

we cannot use just the statements we want to use

Except we can. That's why we look at things case-by-case.

 

[Coomandar]

Except the Narrator's statement has been contradicted. Has Garou's GRB statement been contradicted?

yes.
none did get blind by it, the earth didnt get completely destroyed… Zzz

 

[Coomandar]

Except we can. That's why we look at things case-by-case.

no, this is not how things works.
We use statements that fits the logic of the verse.

Tatsumaki has been reacting to speedsters since the webcomic, cmon bruh…

 

[Phsccarvalho]

as i said, he doesn’t need to say what is obvious, he just says what he want us to know.

Yes, it does, especially if it was contradicted.

If the narrator doesn't need to state the obvious, why can he not include the Flash?

You don't include Saitama and Blast because it's "obvious" that they would win, even though it doesn't make sense because it contradicts the narrator.

And I could also say that from what FF demonstrated of speed in the manga, it is obvious that he can defeat Tatsumaki through speed, so the narrator does not need to include him because it is "Obvious"

 

[Kachon123]

no, this is not how things works.
We use statements that fits the logic of the verse.

Tatsumaki has been reacting to speedsters since the webcomic, cmon bruh…

That is infact how things work here. The reason we don't take everything at face value is because sometimes they are more nuances.

The statement's validity needs to be questioned due to how it makes no note of the actual person who can defeat her (Saitama).

The Webcomic is an entirely separate continuity.

 

[Coomandar]

If the narrator doesn't need to state the obvious, why can he not include the Flash?

wha…? theres nothing “obvious” about flashy at, are you seriously putting flashy at the same level as saitama? He has never been faster than tatsu lore-wise, neither in the webcomic.
The narrator didn’t mention him because he is on the group of “nothing in this world”

and blast was mentioned by the narrator.

 

[Coomandar]

That is infact how things work here. The reason we don't take everything at face value is because sometimes they are more nuances.

The statement's validity needs to be questioned due to how it makes no note of the actual person who can defeat her (Saitama).

The Webcomic is an entirely separate continuity.

separate community but still with great impact.

 

[Kachon123]

Not to the manga.

Anyways, I've made my points without you seeming to understand, so this probably isn't going to go anywhere. I'll just wait for staff members to give their input.

 

[Coomandar]

Yes, it does, especially if it was contradicted.

If the narrator doesn't need to state the obvious, why can he not include the Flash?

also because tatsumaki can defeat flashy in a frontal attack, why would the narrator mention him as exception?

 

[Coomandar]

Please don’t say that i don’t understand your point just because i don’t agree with it, thank you.

 

[Kachon123]

You don't understand the wiki takes statements. I know you understand my point.

 

[Coomandar]

I've made my points without you seeming to understand, so this probably isn't going to go anywhere.

anyway, let’s wait

 

[ImposingTiger]

I don't agree for the reasons Kachon proposed.

If you really want to scale Tatsuamki to FTL, not only in reaction speed, but also in combat and flight speed, try to push the fact that Flash had problems reacting to Psykos while Saitama clearly perceived it was a human. If Elixir Psykos is faster than FF, that would open a whole door to Tatsumaki scaling much higher than that. Good luck trying to convince the admins tho.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Disagree for Kachon's reasons above

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Since the narration is from Sitch’s POV, it wouldn’t really include flashy, since the hero association has little knowledge of his true power to begin with, nor would he have knowledge of gale wind and hellfire flame
however, it could mean that she’s faster than like, some people she already scales above.

 

[Damage3245]

At most I think Tatsumaki could get a "possibly higher" from this for her speed, but I'm against solidly scaling her to Flashy Flash.

 

[Coomandar]

Since the narration is from Sitch’s POV, it wouldn’t really include flashy, since the hero association has little knowledge of his true power to begin with, nor would he have knowledge of gale wind and hellfire flame
however, it could mean that she’s faster than like, some people she already scales above.

it’s not sitch’s pov

 

[Coomandar]

bump

 

[Coomandar]

well, i suggest to scale her above the ninja duo and get a possibly higher rating.

''sub-rel, possibly higher''
using the justification that psykos did not think that their speed would be enough to defeat tatsumaki, even thought esper's weakness is how fast they can put up a barrier

 

[Coomandar]

another consideration, if flashy was that faster than the ninja duo, them he could've just blitzed them and finished the fight before they could even realize, they would literally get statued
the difference between a sub-rel and a at least ftl character is insanely huge, and flashy is not just at least ftl in reaction or combat speed, it's also in traveling speed!!!

at most ftl for ninja duo.

 

[Kachon123]

'sub-rel, possibly higher''
using the justification that psykos did not think that their speed would be enough to defeat tatsumaki, even thought esper's weakness is how fast they can put up a barrier

As for Psykos' statement, as things stand on the profiles right now, she wasn't lying. Monster Hellfire Flame and Gale scale to Sub-Relativistic (3610594.23 m/s), while Tatsumaki scales above Psykos' Massively Hypersonic+ Beams (2496360 m/s). The difference in speed between them is less than 1.45x, meaning that Tatsumaki should already be able to react to their top speeds without being blitzed.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I will say that he does kinda have a point, it’d be odd for them to be slower to an extent that they couldn’t even be sol, since they did make him use special techniques and have to line them up correctly to use flashy flash
also consider that he thought that they’d be too fast for the rest of the S class, including atomic samurai who he had seen in action on the surface only minutes ago.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

As for tatsumaki, though, the statement from the narrator still explains why Sitch was confident in the raid, and isn’t an actual narrator statement saying that no being could defeat her in a frontal attack. It should really just be limited to a supporting possibly higher statement until further notice (as in the ninjas arc)

 

[Coomandar]

still, the ninja’s speed is terribly lowballed.

they definetely scales to flash in some degree.



at most ftl or sol for ninja duo and the same goes for tatsumaki due the statements.

 

[Coomandar]

As for tatsumaki, though, the statement from the narrator still explains why Sitch was confident in the raid, and isn’t an actual narrator statement saying that no being could defeat her in a frontal attack. It should really just be limited to a supporting possibly higher statement until further notice (as in the ninjas arc)

the narrator statement plus psykos compatibility system are enough to scale tatsumaki above or at least to the ninja duo.
im pretty sure that psykos is aware of the potential of every single monster.