One Punch Man: Iaian cutting bullets is wanked, and not viable for scaling.

[ShadowWhoWalks]

One of the calculations used to scale top A-Class heroes, some S-Class heroes, and comparable monsters is Iaian blitzing bullets.

The calc in question is here.

...

The problem is that the calc is extremely flawed. Specifically in the timeframe. The timeframe is based on unjustifeid assumptions:

• The first bullet cut is splitting at exactly its muzzle speed. For all we know, the split bullet fragments could be moving sideways at 10 m/s or 10,000 m/s.

• The distance between the fragments of the first bullet Iaian has cut is relevant to the timeframe for cutting all four bullets (including the first one he already cut), even though the other bullets bullet fragments show larger distances between each other demonstrating variable splitting speeds anyway.

This ended up giving an inflated result, where Iaian moved at Mach 7000... for cutting four bullets. Just imagine the number of bullet feats that are supposed to be faster.

Iaian would have 2559.5% more time to do the feat if the first bullet was 10 cm away from his starting position. If we make the timeframe the distance between Iaian's arm length and his starting position, this feat would just be High Hypersonic.

So yeah... Iaian is High Hypersonic+ scaling from lower A-Class heroes, and he is possibly Massively Hypersonic+ depending on how serious Melzalgald was in the beginning.

We could try to scale Iaian to S-Class heroes since he qualifies as one, but there are S-Class heroes who are listed to have a lower speed cap than MHS+ like Metal Knight (at least High Hypersonic+) and Zombieman (at least Supersonic). Genos also apparently made it into S-Class with High Hypersonic+ speed.

 

[Damage3245]

I agree, the calc should not be used.

 

[Qawsedf234]

If rejected, what's a good alternative calc to use? Also Mel wouldn't be MHS+ if Iaian isn't since it was agreed he does not scale to Atomic Samurai.

 

[SuperAPM]

There is still DSK's MHS feat. Doesn't seem to be anything wrong with it from what I can tell.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yeah it was what was previously used. So they're back to MHS.

 

[SuperAPM]

Although a quick question. Since its being performed by a Demon level threat, would all Dragons and those that scale be "At least" MHS, or baseline MHS+? I think a simple MHS rating should be fine but they should all be significantly faster than DSK.

 

[Qawsedf234]

MHS, because unlike strength speed isn't a scaling factor in threat levels.

 

[SuperAPM]

Fine by me. Seems pretty cut and dry to be honest, what really needs an extensive look into would be the lower tier speed scaling.

 

[Tetsucabrah]

Yeah I do see human Hellfire and Gale being faster than Bakuzan.

Would it be possible to do this completely redo this calc, like with a different method?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yeah. Instead of getting a timeframe from the bullet split you get it from total distance between Iaian and the shooter. So just replacing the numbers its

• 5.498 / 792.48 = 0.00693771451 seconds

• 11.738 / 0.00693771451 = 1691.91164945 m/s or mach 4.9

Thought that was the average speed. The inital speed would be higher for the swings.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

There are multiple Demon-Level monsters who are MHS+

• Awakened Cockroach is MHS+ (outspeed Post-G4 Genos, Genos compared his speed to Sonic's)
• Bug God is MHS+ (kept up with human Garou)
• Royal Ripper is MHS+ (comparable to human Garou)
• Do-S is MHS+ (comparable to Fubuki, and escaped from a distracted Tatsumuki)
• G4 is MHS+ (caught post-DSK Genos offguard multiple times)
• Demonic Fan is Likely MHS+ (overwhelmed Fubuki with her group)

Base DSK himself is Demon Level, and is MHS based on the snail speed rain feat.

It requires one S-Rank hero or 10 A-Rank heroes to defeat the average Demon Level monster. So would it work to upgrade the speed of BoS Genos, and make the baseline speed of S-Rank and Demon Level characters to be MHS or MHS+?

 

[SuperAPM]

I wouldn't rely on the Hero Class to Disaster Level ratio in general, especially for speed. Its more used to get a general idea rather than acting as a baseline requirement for each rank. For instance Demon level which is said to require 1 S-Class member to handle, but Demon level DSK managed to defeat 2 S-Class members during his rampage.

But now that you mentioned it it was only Dry DSK that performed his MHS feat, so his Wet form would probably elicit an "at least MHS" rating, along with anyone who scales directly to or above said latter form.

 

[Qawsedf234]

> There are multiple Demon-Level monsters who are MHS+

Everyone in said list is only MHS+ because of Iaian. If he isn't MHS+ then they aren't as well.

 

[GyroNutz]

I agree with the OP

 

[Tetsucabrah]

Some possible calcable speed feats.

https://********.org/chapter/6356/25

Awakened Cockroach dodges this massive explosion point blank, while his feet are stuck to the ground with some powerful adhesive.

https://********.org/chapter/5739/32

He's later seen without any burn marks or anything and mentions he only lost his legs, which he sacrificed to escape the adhesive.

https://********.org/chapter/671525/16

https://********.org/chapter/671525/17

Sweet Mask also dodges a pointblack explosion

https://********.org/chapter/703373/11

Nyan seemingly perceives a sniper bullet in slow motion and redirects it.

 

[SuperAPM]

So what should we do here? Iaian's calc is obviously incorrect in its current state and has already been rejected by a calc member, so I'd say at this point we should get to work downscaling everyone back to MHS based on DSK's feat.

Should also put the correct values in based on a more accurate interpretation of Iaian's feat to give him a more accurate speed rating, assuming he doesn't scale to MHS as well.

 

[Qawsedf234]

We just need to determine who scales up to AS's MHS+ fest then downgrade everyone else to MHS or HH.

 

[SuperAPM]

Does anyone? I think everyone who scales above him is rated Sub-Relativistic to Relativistic already. The only one I can imagine scaling to him is Bang, but I'm not even sure of that to be honest. Who do you think would scale to AS?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Personally I don't even think BS should scale to AS's attack speed since he didn't once avoid a serious attack from him and regularly was cut to pieces. But ignoring that anyone who scales to BS (Bang, ENW, Psykos, Sweet Mask, Garou, Superalloy, etc) could keep a MHS+ rating.

 

[SuperAPM]

I think you bring up a good point to be honest. Its arguable Black Sperm was simply not trying to avoid AS's attacks since he knew his slashes wouldn't do anything to him, but I don't see that as evidence to suggest he's equal. AS seems to be someone with greater attack speed than travel speed to begin with, so I'd say it's safest to only have himself scale to his own feat.

 

[Damage3245]

> Its arguable Black Sperm was simply not trying to avoid AS's attacks since he knew his slashes wouldn't do anything to him

That does seem right because the first thing he does in the fight is dodge AS's casual attack.

 

[Tetsucabrah]

https://********.org/chapter/660875/16

https://********.org/chapter/660875/17

This is probably the real indicator of how close they are in speed.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yeah that's what I mean. In the span of one punch AS throws out dozens of attacks that BS doesn't really react to.

 

[SuperAPM]

Plus that's another point of evidence that suggets AS's Attack Speed is higher than his travel speed, since he managed to excute dozen of slashes in the span of one punch while seemingly incapable of simply dodging out of the way.

 

[The_Causality]

I could probably Calc this feat, maybe at the end of the week.

 

[SuperAPM]

That would be very helpful of you, thanks.

 

[The_Causality]

Finished the calc

 

[SuperAPM]

Thank you. I've posted it on the evaluations board for you.

 

[KGiffoni]

Awakened Cockroach dodges this massive explosion point blank, while his feet are stuck to the ground with some powerful adhesive.

This states that gas explosions usually range from 1600m/s to 1800m/s, the mean being 1700m/s.

Assuming AC stood 2 meters away from Genos, with the pixel scaling, he'd have to move 1m to one of his sides in order to avoid the explosion.

1 * 1700 / 2 = 850m/s or Mach 2.47

Not sure if this is right, it's my first time doing a speed calc

The same page also states that "Solid explosives often have detonation velocities ranging beyond 4000 m/s to 10300 m/s.". The mean being 7150m/s

1 * 7150 / 2 = 3575 m/s = Mach 10.4

 

[The_Causality]

Thank you. I've posted it on the evaluations board for you.

Thanks you boi

 

[KGiffoni]

- snip -

I've put it in this blog and asked for an evaluation.

 

[GyroNutz]

Alright, so everyone goes back to scaling to High Hypersonic?

 

[SuperAPM]

No, the lower tier scales down somewhere from Supersonic to Hypersonic whilst the higher tiers simply lose the + and go down to MHS instead.

 

[GyroNutz]

Genos' meteor reacting feat is still legit even if Iaian's feat was debunked.

Everyone else would be Supersonic already.

 

[SuperAPM]

Yes, but only Genos and those faster would scale to that as far as I'm aware. If there is no evidence that Iaian scales to that then the scaling should look like this:

Supersonic: A-Class heroes, Child Emperor, Zombieman, Tigers and low level Demons

Hypersonic: Three desciples and Demons that have kept up with them

MHS: DSK and anyone comparable/faster (Genos, Sonic, Cockroach, a good deal of S-Class members and all Dragons)

Higher: The obvious members.

 

[GyroNutz]

Iaiain dodged an attack from Melzalgard who is threat level dragon. Child Emperor dodged an attack from Evil Natural Water, who is a dragon level cadre, and beaten all three disciples before.

A-Class heroes are already Supersonic, as they never scaled to Iaian in the first place.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Dunno. Iaian still avoided some attacks from Mel, reacted to an attack from ENW, and CE reacted to multiple ENW blasts. Something Sweet Mask had difficulty doing.

 

[SuperAPM]

Iaian dodged an attack from an extremely casual Melz, and last I checked even one of those attacks got his left arm blasted off. CE likewise dodged attacks that had an unknown amount of effort put into them, and even then he still got a hole shot through his leg before he could even percieve the attack. Him stating that he's beaten the disciples has since been retconned out of the Manga, and never should have been used as a justification for his speed in the first place since it mostly just applicable to his gear anyway.

I never said they scaled to Iaian, I'm simply setting up a scale where everyone should be at.

 

[SuperAPM]

If anyone wants to calc Rhino Wrestler deflecting three sniper rifle shots, be my guest.

 

[GyroNutz]

ENW isn't a concious being, it would have no motive to hold back. We can assume effort isn't a factor then (and even then, you'd need proof that ENW was being casual).

I'm not saying that Iaian scales in terms of AP. But Melzalgard has no reason to be using less effort than when he cleaved Sky King before he could react, who is comparable to the Deep Sea King.

Retconned, or hasn't been mentioned? Besides, he doesn't have any gear that enhances his reactions that we know of, so that would still be the same.

Child Emperor also reacted to first resurrection Phoenix Man while inside the Brave Giant, who is a dragon level threat.