Beginning of series Iaian and Melzargard upgrades

[ZillertheBucko]

Beginning of series Iaian should scale above spring mustachio's high hypsersonic+ speed
in this guidebook entry, there are a number of statements emphasizing his speed.

"With a drawing technique and swordwork so fast the average Joe can't even see it, he can take down any monster with a single strike!"
"Even among the disciples of Atomic Samurai, known as the Three Swordsmen, Iairon's sword speed is at the top level!"
"Without even realizing they've been cut down, the enemy falls in a spray of blood."
"Quick and agile limbs"
"such is the speed of Iairon"
"He is super fast, managing to dodge a mortal blow from a space pirate by a hair"
"Even if the enemy makes the first move, they are already awaiting death! A blink of an eye only takes a flash, but in fact, with his extremely fast sword strokes he can slice through the enemy's vital points multiple times a second!"
also has an 8 in fighting ability (mustachio has a 6)

Considering that spring mustachio is a lesser swordsman and A class hero, and was not trained by atomic samurai himself, Iaian, who is the fastest disciple, and is so consistently noted as being a speedster among swordsmen should be faster than BoS spring mustachio, who kept up with Kombu Infinity.
In other words, he would scale to high hypersonic+, and combined Melzargard would scale

Merged (not combined) Melzargard should be hypersonic (mach 8), due to this.

It was a surprise attack from behind, I am aware, but it still happened so fast that they couldn't even process it, so he should still most likely scale directly.
Update: turns out, merged Melz (below), when not combined, tagged Iaian, so he'd just be high hypersonic+ straight up

the affected scaling would be
Dark Matter arc Iaian: High Hypersonic+
Combined Melzargard: High Hypersonic+
Groribas: High Hypersonic+
Geryugoatshoop: High Hypersonic+ reactions, with possibly rela+ attack speed.
Armored and Released Boros: High hypersonic+ (is a higher value than released Boros' previous calc as well), with possibly rela+ combat speed
Merged Melzargard: Hypersonic High Hypersonic+

and uh, one last thing
Combined Melzargard should get that possibly 6-C rating, since he should be comparable to Geryuganshoop and somewhat relative to Groribas, considering he would be capable of fighting someone who defeated groribas, although he would be assisted by Geryu.

Silverfang wouldn't scale, though, since he used water stream rock smashing fist to deflect his attack:

and lastly, I'm just gonna fix up Mustachio's speed justification to show how he scales by parrying some of kombu's attacks

 

[Kachon123]

Following

 

[Andytrenom]

Dunno about 6-C but the high hypersonic+ scaling should be fine

 

[ZillertheBucko]

what of the hypersonic scaling?

 

[Andytrenom]

Sky King doesn't have a page so I can't know if the scaling to Deep Sea King is valid

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Sky King doesn't have a page so I can't know if the scaling to Deep Sea King is valid

we currently accept this statement for melz's AP scaling:

ONE: Deep Sea, Sky, Subterranean Kings are around the same level

so the speed would also scale, going by what's currently accepted.

Also I got confused, deep sea king actually scales to a the crow's value of Mach 9.62 rather than the raindrop feat's supporting calc.

 

[Andytrenom]

That's fine then

 

[Emerald]

Also I got confused, deep sea king actually scales to a the crow's value of Mach 9.62 rather than the raindrop feat's supporting calc.

I plan to address this in my future Sea Folk Arc profile rework (After the HoE crt is over), which might bump some characters to Hypersonic+

Either way, I'm neutral towards Iaian scaling to Spring Mustachio
I agree with Melz scaling to Sky King and him being possibly 6-C

 

[Damage3245]

In other words, he would scale to high hypersonic+, and combined Melzargard would scale

The High Hypersonic+ calc is for the Tomboy attack specifically. I don't see any reason for Iaian to scale to that when it's an attack that involves extending the user's sword in an instant, and Iaian has a completely different fighting style.

 

[Emerald]

The High Hypersonic+ calc is for the Tomboy attack specifically. I don't see any reason for Iaian to scale to that when it's an attack that involves extending the user's sword in an instant, and Iaian has a completely different fighting style.

Kombu scales to Tomboy's attack speed, and Spring Mustachio scales to Kombu. So SM scales to HH+, and therefore it's fine for Iaian to scale

 

[Damage3245]

Kombu scales to Tomboy's attack speed, and Spring Mustachio scales to Kombu. So SM scales to HH+, and therefore it's fine for Iaian to scale

Kombu narrowly dodged the Tomboy; that doesn't require Kombu to be exactly as fast as the Tomboy. Especially when you look at how much distance Kombu covered in this panel and how much further distance the Tomboy attack covered. Plus Kombu was still tagged by it.

 

[Emerald]

that's what is in their profiles

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Just downscale, it’s not that complicated. It’s not like he dodged it from the full attack length away, it’s literally just some meters.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

oh, I made one last error it seems
merged Melz was able to tag Iaian, not the one-headed combined form

I'll update the OP

 

[ImposingTiger]

I agree with everything.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Kombu narrowly dodged the Tomboy; that doesn't require Kombu to be exactly as fast as the Tomboy. Especially when you look at how much distance Kombu covered in this panel and how much further distance the Tomboy attack covered. Plus Kombu was still tagged by it.

also it's not aim dodging either in case that would be an issue either
the anime it makes it clearer that the dodge was done after he already launched tomboy
the sequence in the manga is basically identical as well.

 

[Damage3245]

also it's not aim dodging either in case that would be an issue either
the anime it makes it clearer that the dodge was done after he already launched tomboy
the sequence in the manga is basically identical as well.

That still wouldn't make Kombu as fast as the attack.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

That still wouldn't make Kombu as fast as the attack.

it reacted to it almost instantly, and just dodged a bit late
the only reason it even tagged Kombu was because it was a surprise attack, and she wouldn't have anticipated the sword at all being able extend like that suddenly
like imagine someone is just staring at you from a dozen meters away maybe during a fight, you're prepared to defeat them in hand to hand, and while they're in their fighting stance with a fist pointed at you, a fireball comes out of their hand straight at you
of course, you'd probably dodge a bit late, because it was a surprise attack, but the fact remains that it was reacted to well before it reached Kombu
if you want then it doesn't really matter if it scales directly or downscales, but Kombu is still hh+ regardless for reacting to it and barely getting tagged from the surprise attack
judging by the justifications (the scans are dead tho) on infinity's profile, this was already accounted for anyways when the scaling was made.

 

[Kachon123]

Kombu narrowly dodged the Tomboy; that doesn't require Kombu to be exactly as fast as the Tomboy. Especially when you look at how much distance Kombu covered in this panel and how much further distance the Tomboy attack covered. Plus Kombu was still tagged by it.

I agree with Damage here. Nothing in that sequence implies that Konbu Infinity's speed is relative to the speed of Tomboy, especially since it was tagged despite trying moving out the way.

 

[Kachon123]

I could maybe see an argument that Konbu's reactions could be inferior, but still relative to the speed of Tomboy due to it being able to still see the attack without being blitzed, but that doesn't really have anything to do with attack speed.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I could maybe see an argument that Konbu's reactions could be inferior, but still relative to the speed of Tomboy due to it being able to still see the attack without being blitzed, but that doesn't really have anything to do with attack speed.

I showed that Kombu reacted early on, but was tagged due to it clearly being a surprise attack, since nobody would process a sword fighter as an immediate threat from that range, and Kombu had no prior knowledge of the Tomboy strike
The thing is, Kombu reacted to quickly, was caught off guard, but still managed to dodge it fairly well after it was fired, with it only very narrowly landing on a freely hanging piece of kombu. What specifically is the problem with this?

 

[Damage3245]

I showed that Kombu reacted early on, but was tagged due to it clearly being a surprise attack, since nobody would process a sword fighter as an immediate threat from that range, and Kombu had no prior knowledge of the Tomboy strike
The thing is, Kombu reacted to quickly, was caught off guard, but still managed to dodge it fairly well after it was fired, with it only very narrowly landing on a freely hanging piece of kombu. What specifically is the problem with this?

Nothing's wrong with that. It just doesn't have anything to do with scaling his combat speed to the Tomboy attack.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

My suggestion is to just downscale Kombu to baseline, rather than saying a supersonic+ or whatever character would be able to dodge a surprise high hypersonic+ attack from only a dozen or so meters away. If Kombu isn’t at least in the high hypersonic ranges then the scene just isn’t logically possible.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Since this is getting a bit complicated, and I don't want to deal with this anymore, I'm just gonna have to ask: why does mustachio even have a 2nd key? And even if he does, why isn't his first key mhs+
in only chapter 50, which is a very short time period after chapter 20 where he made his debut, he was able to nearly tag garou (tore his shirt), and then force him into jumping rather than being able to do anything head-on, even though he was able to parry metal bat's tornado when cornered and also deal with royal ripper's blades as a human:

maybe we just skip all the kombu hh+ business and just have mustachio's first key made mhs+, or have his 2nd key removed. Seems to me like a much easier solution.

 

[Damage3245]

That'd result in a massive circular scaling chain by the way.

I went diving through the profiles because it seems like everyone scales to everyone, annoyingly enough, and I think that the solution above would be a bad idea unless we sorted out the existing scaling first.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

That'd result in a massive circular scaling chain by the way.

I went diving through the profiles because it seems like everyone scales to everyone, annoyingly enough, and I think that the solution above would be a bad idea unless we sorted out the existing scaling first.

I don't necessarily disagree, but also, I feel that may be a tad bigger than the scope of this crt...
although, I will give a pointer that there might be some wackiness going on with do-s' speed justification, if that's where you wanna start.
That being said, I think maybe some of that could be handled separately, in a more significant verse-wide speed scaling adjustment crt.

 

[Damage3245]

Yeah, that'll be a big task.

I'll start doing some foundational work for that.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Yeah, that'll be a big task.

I'll start doing some foundational work for that.

may my wee little crt go through in the meantime?

 

[Damage3245]

I'm currently not in favor of it, sorry.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

okay, maybe the Iaian and spring mustachio stuff can wait, but I believe the hypersonic stuff should be safe at the moment, right?

 

[ZillertheBucko]

bump

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

I believe the hypersonic stuff should be safe at the moment

That seems okay imo

 

[ZillertheBucko]

That seems okay imo

alright
if this receives damage's blessing then tomorrow I'll be able to add "at least hypersonic" to Melzargard and BoS Iaian's profile, and then after that we can talk more about spring mustachio and what exactly we're gonna do about the other speed scaling


I'm currently thinking about it though, and am trying to find the issue...
Spring Mustachio was able to corner garou, but garou is mhs+, and is relative to post superfight genos
genos of course kept up with speed o sound sonic, meaning spring mustachio = sonic = genos < Iaian
that alone is fine enough, but as for where I think the problem might lie is the fact that it means spring mustachio's attack speed would blitz Fubuki's perception...
though I haven't actually managed to find out where it becomes circular, and going through like 50 profiles each time to find out who scales to what is just a headache.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

update: this is extremely ******* annoying, especially since apparently we have more than one mhs calc, one of them is mhs+, but the profiles seemingly might forget the + sometimes or something? Idk, but my current thought on what might happen is that Fubuki is likely not mhs+, the rover and do-s justifications for speed are kinda stinky, since rover's is just "managed to get close to people who were distracted" and do-s is "got close to amai mask when he was distracted, and also scales to bushidrill even though he literally reacted to her."
but the search continues to see what needs to be fixed.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

and goodness, how hard is it for people to put scans on these god damn feats...guess we'll have to start grinding to polish this verse.

 

[ByAsura]

Kombu dodging Tomboy is the same instance as Kachon's HH+ calc.

We can just calculate the speed for Kombu partially dodging without it being calc-stacking.

 

[Damage3245]

I've looked closer at the calc:

Spring Mustachio reeled in his sword from the distance Tomboy traveled while making an afterimage, so a timeframe of 1/60 seconds works.

Is this actually an accurate timeframe? If an afterimage is present (which, it really doesn't seem to be to me), then 1/60th of a second can be used for the entire extension / retraction of the sword?

 

[ByAsura]

I've always had doubts about it as well, but shouldn't that be the topic of another thread?

 

[Damage3245]

I've always disagreed with it as well, but shouldn't that be the topic of another thread?

I guess so, yeah.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Wait, if we’re supposed to be covering all of the Garou speed scaling bs here and spring mustachio’s speed scaling here, how come that’s what’s being put off for a separate thread?