One Piece: Removing Chopper's scaling to Queen

[Kachon123]

Currently, Monster Point Chopper's AP scales to Zoan Queen's durability because he caused him to cough out blood (Chapter 1007). In the durability page,under "Possible Issues with Scaling to Durability" section, it states this:

Haemoptysis​

Haemoptysis is the act of coughing up blood. This is caused from the force of blunt attacks damaging blood vessels, causing blood and fluids to build up in your lungs. This created the popular notion that characters are getting their durability bypassed. This a flawed way of scaling, as organs and blood vessels are weaker than the actual body.

This is exactly what Chopper did to Queen. To further back up removing this scaling, we get a direct statement (something that is also in the durability page) from Chopper saying that his weren't actually damaging Queen. Queen also literally states that he was playing along with Chopper in order to make it look like he had the upper hand.

 

[Deceived3596]

Chopper > Sanji

Disagree FRA

 

[Kachon123]

Chopper > Sanji

 

[Deceived3596]

Photoshop

 

[Kachon123]

Photoshop

Honest thoughts on the OP?

 

[Deceived3596]

Honest thoughts on the OP?

I'm neutral because i'm not knowledgeable on OP.

I just couldn't contain myself when i saw this Chopper slander ngl.

 

[KingTempest]

Currently, Monster Point Chopper's AP scales to Zoan Queen's durability because he caused him to cough out blood

Wrong
Because nobody said that he scales for making him spit blood
He scales for drawing blood from the side of his face

(Chapter 1007). In the durability page,under "Possible Issues with Scaling to Durability" section, it states this:

As the person who wrote that, note the word Possible, which means it's not an automatic L
And the fact that he drew blood from his face says a fuckton

This is exactly what Chopper did to Queen.

and then some

To further back up removing this scaling, we get a direct statement (something that is also in the durability page) from Chopper saying that his weren't actually damaging Queen.

He never said this.
We've tackled this already, several times.

He said that his attacks weren't working.
Which were because of his ancient zoan endurance.

Same reason why a DJ attack from Sanji that badly hurt him while off guard got a reaction of "I didn't even feel that"

Queen also literally states that he was playing along with Chopper in order to make it look like he had the upper hand.

You act like the justification is "manhandled Queen and is far superior". It's "drew blood from Queen".

Justification stays

 

[CloverDragon03]

Disagree for KT’s reasons

 

[Eseseso]

Disagree for KT's reasons

 

[Damage3245]

Neutral on this until Kachon can address KT's points.

 

[Eseseso]

I mean, I have always been a wee bit on the edge about Chopper's Queen scaling, but King's reasons above, Chopper taking hits from Queen, and the fact that Chopper fought Queen offscreen for a whopping 30 minutes (with the anime supporting the notion of Chopper being comparable to Queen) makes me favor King's side.

 

[Kachon123]

Wrong
Because nobody said that he scales for making him spit blood
He scales for drawing blood from the side of his face

As the person who wrote that, note the word Possible, which means it's not an automatic L
And the fact that he drew blood from his face says a fuckton

and then some

He never said this.
We've tackled this already, several times.

He said that his attacks weren't working.
Which were because of his ancient zoan endurance.

Same reason why a DJ attack from Sanji that badly hurt him while off guard got a reaction of "I didn't even feel that"

You act like the justification is "manhandled Queen and is far superior". It's "drew blood from Queen".

Justification stays

You say "and then some," "this is not the reason we scale," and other things along those lines.

Can you show me other scans of Chopper damaging Queen?

 

[KingTempest]

You say "and then some," "this is not the reason we scale," and other things along those lines.

"And then some" because you imply the only reason we scale him is because of him spitting out blood

Can you show me other scans of Chopper damaging Queen?

You don't need it

In the same scan in the OP, Chopper smacks Queen and draws blood from the side of his face

 

[Kachon123]

In the same scan in the OP, Chopper smacks Queen and draws blood from the side of his face

No he doesn't? He made Queen cough out blood. Even if we use the anime as clarification, thats just not a thing.

 

[KingTempest]

No he doesn't? He made Queen cough out blood. Even if we use the anime as clarification, thats just not a thing.

We're not about to do this in every thread, use the censored anime that stops massive amounts of blood to say "there was no blood"

He clearly damaged the side of his face and we can see blood from it

 

[Kachon123]

We're not about to do this in every thread, use the censored anime that stops massive amounts of blood to say "there was no blood"

There's literally not? That's impact marks that we see all the time like Punk Vise (which ended up not being blood)

 

[KingTempest]

There's literally not? That's impact marks that we see all the time like Punk Vise (which ended up not being blood)

no, they're not

Cyan is blood, green is whatever he scraped off his face

 

[Kachon123]

no, they're not

Cyan is blood, green is whatever he scraped off his face

The 3 cyan circles on the bottom are from his mouth. the top one isn't even blood, and the green is not skin?

 

[KingTempest]

The 3 cyan circles on the bottom are from his mouth. the top one isn't even blood, and the green is not skin?

The 3 cyan circles on the bottom are behind his face. They're not from his mouth.

The top one is definitely a bleeding face or at least a wound

And the green one is definitely part of his skin

 

[Kachon123]

The 3 cyan circles on the bottom are behind his face. They're not from his mouth.

His face got turned from the slap.

The top one is definitely a bleeding face or at least a wound

It's literally not. Again, look at the anime.

And the green one is definitely part of his skin

Look at Punk Vise.

We have no proof that this is anything other than making Queen cough out blood. We should wait for the official coloring to come out (which should be soon) and remove it until then, otherwise it's just baseless assumptions especially considering Chopper himself saying that he can't harm Queen.

 

[Eminiteable]

And the green one is definitely part of his skin

Cyan parts seem like blood but the green is just apart of the impact strike effect (at least that's usually the case)

 

[KingTempest]

His face got turned from the slap.

They aren't even leveled to where it would've been if it came from his mouth

And I just noticed

It's literally not. Again, look at the anime.

Stop using a censored show to prove there's no blood.

The same anime you keep sending shows that no blood came from his mouth, which contradicts the manga, where it came out of his mouth.

We have a rule on the anime

Regarding the canon: In terms of canon material, this wiki deems the manga as the primary canon. The anime is considered secondary canon on a case by case basis. In the case of anime, it contradicts statements, feats, personalities, and abilities of characters in many cases. This happens with censorship, filler content in canon material, and pacing. Since we have confirmation that Oda approves certain scenes in the anime, we've decided to take the anime as canon in the areas where it perfectly or similarly represents the manga, and the scenes not shown in the manga that are represented in the anime will be deemed as filler. It was decided in this thread.

• Please note, the anime is not allowed to be used if the manga gives a perfect alternative for a feat. For example, the shockwave caused by Luffy and Doflamingo's clash was not shown in the manga, and should not be used to scale the manga characters. The anime is mainly used for timeframes, clarifications for feats, etc. If the manga is clear enough, the anime should not be used.
  • Examples of censorship-based contradictions: Luffy's skull was pierced through the back by one of Jango's attacks, but in the anime, he catches it with his mouth. Red-leg Zeff cuts off his leg to escape from wreckage in the anime, but in the manga, he cuts it off and eats it to survive. During his fight with Absalom, Sanji was pierced completely through the chest by a blade and dropped Nami in order to keep blood off of her dress, whereas the anime simply had him pummeled with punches, and thus couldn't hold onto Nami anymore. These are just to name a few. There are dozens to hundreds of these cases both pre time-skip and post time-skip.

Stop trying to use the anime's portrayal as if it's equal to the manga's showings

Look at Punk Vise.

Stop comparing a far off strike frame to a face shot that we can see and analyze.

We have no proof that this is anything other than making Queen cough out blood. We should wait for the official coloring to come out (which should be soon) and remove it until then, otherwise it's just baseless assumptions especially considering Chopper himself saying that he can't harm Queen.

"Which should be soon" it'll be in many months

Chopper never said he couldn't harm queen. Stop saying he said words that he didn't.

 

[Mussdit]

By Injuring Queen, I Think It's Enough For Chopper

 

[Eseseso]

1. The anime actually shows blood coming from what appears to be Queen's nostrils after Chopper slaps him.

2. The anime actually supports Chopper matching Queen offscreen.

 

[That_moron2]

Shut up Kachon fra.

 

[ZKillerz]

Currently, Monster Point Chopper's AP scales to Zoan Queen's durability because he caused him to cough out blood (Chapter 1007). In the durability page,under "Possible Issues with Scaling to Durability" section, it states this:



This is exactly what Chopper did to Queen. To further back up removing this scaling, we get a direct statement (something that is also in the durability page) from Chopper saying that his weren't actually damaging Queen. Queen also literally states that he was playing along with Chopper in order to make it look like he had the upper hand.

W post but instead of using the scan which can be interpreted to be chopper's attacks dealing damage but not working due to queen's endurance

Use this official translation where chopper verbatim states he cant harm queen

Chopper scaling to queen is clearly an outlier

 

[Ringki_64]

W post but instead of using the scan which can be interpreted to be chopper's attacks dealing damage but not working due to queen's endurance

Use this official translation where chopper verbatim states he cant harm queen

Chopper scaling to queen is clearly an outlier

"nothing seems to hurt queen"
its because all chopper did was a scrape his skin off, which in the one piece world, is literally nothing done as it is the same as not being hurt, your taking scans out of context

They aren't even leveled to where it would've been if it came from his mouth

And I just noticed

Stop using a censored show to prove there's no blood.

The same anime you keep sending shows that no blood came from his mouth, which contradicts the manga, where it came out of his mouth.

We have a rule on the anime

Stop trying to use the anime's portrayal as if it's equal to the manga's showings

Stop comparing a far off strike frame to a face shot that we can see and analyze.

"Which should be soon" it'll be in many months

Chopper never said he couldn't harm queen. Stop saying he said words that he didn't.

we can see blood coming from his nostrils and from his mouth not being circled so i agree with KT

 

[Eseseso]

Considering how absurd Ancient Zoan durability is, Chopper at the minimum downscales for making Ancient Zoan Queen bleed from both internal and external damage.

 

[ZKillerz]

"nothing seems to hurt queen"
its because all chopper did was a scrape his skin off, which in the one piece world, is literally nothing done as it is the same as not being hurt, your taking scans out of context

we can see blood coming from his nostrils and from his mouth not being circled so i agree with KT

I have to disagree with this
Scraping queen's skin off and blood coming from his mouth is damage
No matter how you look at it, chopper is saying he cant hurt queen meaning he shouldn't scale to him regularly
His feat against queen is an outlier

 

[SlendVeny]

No matter how you look at it, chopper is saying he cant hurt queen meaning he shouldn't scale to him regularly

"I can't hurt this guy who has regen and insane endurance"

 

[Eseseso]

I have to disagree with this
Scraping queen's skin off and blood coming from his mouth is damage
No matter how you look at it, chopper is saying he cant hurt queen meaning he shouldn't scale to him regularly
His feat against queen is an outlier

Hence why he should downscale.

Dude did better against Queen than the Scabbards did against casual Kaido.

 

[ZKillerz]

Hence why he should downscale.

Dude did better against Queen than the Scabbards did against casual Kaido.

Just for clarities sake what does "downscaling" mean?

I think I have a good idea but I just want to make sure I'm interpreting your message correctly.

 

[Eseseso]

Just for clarities sake what does "downscaling" mean?

I think I have a good idea but I just want to make sure I'm interpreting your message correctly.

He hurt Queen, fought him and took hits from him.

But with that said, Queen was still relatively unscathed asides from minor bleeding, made Chopper bleed a lot from one bite, was clearly outlasting him (though that's mostly Ancient Zoan stamina going brr), and was clearly toying with him.

 

[That_moron2]

No matter how you look at it, chopper is saying he cant hurt queen meaning he shouldn't scale to him regularly
His feat against queen is an outlier

Picture someone beating up another person, and the other person is bleeding but not phased. Saying nothing seems to damage him is a figure of speech.

 

[SlendVeny]

Just for clarities sake what does "downscaling" mean?

It means you scale from being X amount weaker

 

[ZKillerz]

Picture someone beating up another person, and the other person is bleeding but not phased. Saying nothing seems to damage him is a figure of speech.

But this is clearly not the case for Queen.
Chopper states "nothing seems to hurt Queen" right after slamming him into a tower without dealing any damage.

If what you said were true, Chopper wouldn't state "nothing seems to hurt him," as that's a comment on his durability/toughness, not his endurance

Also saying chopper was using figure of speech seems like a stretch, I think my interpretation is more straightforward and logical given the context.

 

[SlendVeny]

But this is clearly not the case for Queen.
Chopper states "nothing seems to hurt Queen" right after slamming him into a tower without dealing any damage.

If what you said were true, Chopper wouldn't state "nothing seems to hurt him," as that's a comment on his durability/toughness, not his endurance

Also saying chopper was using figure of speech seems like a stretch, I think my interpretation is more straightforward and logical given the context.

-Hits guy
-Guy is damaged
-He's still unphased
-That didn't seem to hurt him

 

[ZKillerz]

-Hits guy
-Guy is damaged
-He's still unphased
-That didn't seem to hurt him

That is literally just pain tolerance
Your basically saying Chopper is hurting Queen but just not enough to get a reaction out of him
Which just isn't what Chopper stated...

 

[SlendVeny]

That is literally just pain tolerance
Your basically saying Chopper is hurting Queen but just not enough to get a reaction out of him
Which just isn't what Chopper stated...

He doesn't say it isn't hurting him, it just isn't SEEMING to hurt him. I made the obvious conclusion.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

The " nothing seems to hurt him " thing is just like Sanji calling Vergo a mass of iron after kicking him into a wall and making him bleed slightly.
Which was still grounds for a downscale. So what's the problem here?