One Piece Pre-Timeskip AP Scaling

[KingTempest]

For cases where there's multiple versions of the calcs for the feats, we'll need a Calc Group thread.

You're referring to the initial Gura Gura feat correct?

 

[KingTempest]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/one-piece-kaishin-calcs.113548/

 

[joshpiece]

Is there anything we need to discuss here while we wait to move to a MarineFord CRT?

 

[Cul0r]

One Piece Pre-Timeskip Topics to Talk About

Doriki Scaling.
We found out that one of the old justifications for Linear Doriki was a mistranslation, so we need a new justification or we don't count it as linear.

Asura 3x Multiplier scaling revision.
Asura had a random 3x multiplier. That is gone from Zoro's profile, but a good amount of people scale to that via the current profiles, so that needs to get revised.

Luffy's Marineford scaling needs to be revised, since there are a lot of feats.

Discussion of databook statements not used in scaling.

How does Luffy punching apart the clouds of Skypiea fit in scaling?
Knock-Up-Stream calc is in the works, it would scale to Blackbeard and his crew for taking the full yield (being in the middle of it).

This thread's OP should be taken into consideration
https://vsbattles.com/threads/one-piece-skypea-arc-revision.111161/
Accepted Calcs

• Buchi's Flying Drop Kick: Scales to High 8-C+ characters (8.52 Tons)
• The Buggy Bomb: This 8-B rating scales only to the Buggy Bomb (13.553 Tons).
• Crocodile's Desert Spada: Scales to 8-A characters (446.845 Tons).
• Gomu Gomu no Storm: Scales only to Alabasta Arc's Luffy 8-A+ Rapid Firing Techniques (649.24 Tons).
• Wyper's Burn Bazooka: Scales to the Low 7-C characters (1.97 Kilotons).
• Enel's El Thor: Scales to 7-C characters (35.411 Kilotons).
• Asgard Moria Smash: Scales to the lower Low 7-B characters (1.27395 Megatons).
• Kuma's Ursa Shock: Scales to the higher Low 7-B characters (1.744 Megatons).
• Aokiji's Ice Age: Scales to the 7-A characters (419.7 Megatons).

i like this

 

[KingTempest]

So.

Alabasta low tiers get upgraded.

Enies Lobby to Sabaody get downgraded.

High tiers get a solid 7-A+ to High 7-A calc applied and they scale Via Ace.

Is that it?

 

[Damage3245]

I think that sounds right.

 

[XDragnoir]

So.

Alabasta low tiers get upgraded.

Enies Lobby to Sabaody get downgraded.

High tiers get a solid 7-A+ to High 7-A calc applied and they scale Via Ace.

Is that it?

Wait, shouldn't we discuss a bit more about who scales to Ace and who does not? Upgrading every 377 to it isn't right, also, shouldn't we use a single end of the calc? Because i don't remember any profile where a character is Tier x (low-end of calc y) likely H7A (high-end of calc y) or something like that.

IMO the H7A end is much better, i see no need to keep the 7A+ end.

 

[Stefano4444]

Wait, shouldn't we discuss a bit more about who scales to Ace and who does not? Upgrading every 377 to it isn't right

Borsalino, Sakazuki and Kuzan should scale above for be stronger than Ace.

Both Marco and Jozu definitely scale and likely Vista as well for be capable to hold off the Admirals/Mihawk in Marineford.

Blackbeard also scale for be able to defeat it with difficulty.

And i would also argue that Top Yonko Commanders such as All-Stars and Sweet Commanders should scale as well.

 

[Damage3245]

And i would also argue that Top Yonko Commanders such as All-Stars and Sweet Commanders should scale as well.

We shouldn't scale everybody just based on their ranks.

If you had a statement along the lines of "Ace is the weakest person to ever be a Commander on a Yonkou's crew" that would be fair enough.

 

[Stefano4444]

We shouldn't scale everybody just based on their ranks.

If you had a statement along the lines of "Ace is the weakest person to ever be a Commander on a Yonkou's crew" that would be fair enough.

If that was the case then i would have argue that every commanders on the Yonko crews should scale to Ace's feat, but i didn't.

I only support Marco, Jozu and Vista to scale as they have the feats to support the scale, same can be say for All-Stars and Sweet Commanders too.

As both Craker and Katakuri were more than enough strong to fight and harm 4th Gear Luffy, when Doflamingo could not without Awakening.

While Jack could fight on par with both Inuarashi and Nekomamushi, who should be comparable to the other Nine Red Scabbards.

 

[XDragnoir]

I think it is better to avoid all admirals and yonko/yonko level characters, since they will have a thread of their own, where tier 6 will be discussed.

As both Craker and Katakuri were more than enough strong to fight and harm 4th Gear Luffy, when Doflamingo could not without Awakening.

While Jack could fight on par with both Inuarashi and Nekomamushi, who should be comparable to the other Nine Red Scabbards.

And that relates to Ace how? Not saying they shouldn't scale, but if they should it's not because of those feats

 

[Eminiteable]

As both Craker and Katakuri were more than enough strong to fight and harm 4th Gear Luffy, when Doflamingo could not without Awakening.

How are any of them finding a way to scale to Ace?

 

[XDragnoir]

Jinbe fought Ace a few years ago and both seem to be stronger than before, the feat also was really casual to Ace, i think we can take Jinbe as comparable and scale based on him, it would eventually scale to most Commanders post-TS since i think we have ways to relate Jinbe to most of them.

 

[RexofLM]

Jinbe fought Ace a few years ago and both seem to be stronger than before, the feat also was really casual to Ace, i think we can take Jinbe as comparable and scale based on him, it would eventually scale to most Commanders post-TS since i think we have ways to relate Jinbe to most of them.

Not to take any particular stance on this idea but if we accept this as a community then we would need to extend the same logic to Yamato

 

[Eminiteable]

Jinbe fought Ace a few years ago and both seem to be stronger than before, the feat also was really casual to Ace, i think we can take Jinbe as comparable and scale based on him, it would eventually scale to most Commanders post-TS since i think we have ways to relate Jinbe to most of them.

We don't really know if Jinbe got stronger than before since he's pretty old, we get confirmation that Ace got stronger though when he performed this feat.

 

[Stefano4444]

And that relates to Ace how? Not saying they shouldn't scale, but if they should it's not because of those feats

Doflamingo without Awakening was still enough strong to block Jozu with his strings, other to be able to fight off Marineford Arc Crocodile, who as you know was a complete different beast compare to Alabasta Arc Crocodile.

And as you mention, characters like the Sweet Commanders should scale to Jinbe who fought Ace for days, other to be strong enough momentarily block attacks from Sakazuki in Marineford and from an weakened Big Mom in Whole Cake Island.

For the All Stars, remember that Jack was able to survive and quickly recover from a brawl with Inuarashi and Nekomamushi in their Sulong Forms, who are capable to harm Kaido along with the rest of Red Scabbards, something that Gear 4th Luffy couldn't.

 

[RexofLM]

do we scale ace to aokiji for their clash or is that too small of a moment?

 

[Damage3245]

And as you mention, characters like the Sweet Commanders should scale to Jinbe

Why?

For the All Stars, remember that Jack was able to survive and quickly recover from a brawl with Inuarashi and Nekomamushi in their Sulong Forms, who are capable to harm Kaido along with the rest of Red Scabbards, something that Gear 4th Luffy couldn't.

He still didn't do any significant damage to them, did he?

do we scale ace to aokiji for their clash or is that too small of a moment?

Don't their Devil Fruits cancel each other out, like how Smoker is cancelled out with Ace (even though Smoker is nowhere near as strong as Ace at the time)?

 

[XDragnoir]

We don't really know if Jinbe got stronger than before since he's pretty old, we get confirmation that Ace got stronger though when he performed this feat.

IMO he did show improvement from being damaged by Sakazuki to blocking Big Mom, and he isn't at the age Oda seems to place the limit to the chacters (he isn't now so he also wasn't 2 years ago when he fought Ace), and again Ace didn't even use an attack or put any real effort to do the feat.

I don't think we should place pre-TS Jinbe as an = to Ace, but i don't think anything points to their gap being tiers wide.

 

[Eminiteable]

IMO he did show improvement from being damaged by Sakazuki to blocking Big Mom, and he isn't at the age Oda seems to place the limit to the chacters (he isn't now so he also wasn't 2 years ago when he fought Ace), and again Ace didn't even use an attack or put any real effort to do the feat.

I don't think we should place pre-TS Jinbe as an = to Ace, but i don't think anything points to their gap being tiers wide.

He's in his forties, even by OP that's pretty much their prime age where they stop getting stronger.

The thing is we know for a fact Ace got stronger due to his training with Whitebeard while it's dubious if Jinbe did and we're just making an unsupported assumption that their growing at the same rate to support Jinbe scaling to Commander Ace.

 

[XDragnoir]

I mean, if Jinbe isn't valid, is there anything we can do with this feat at all? Because i can't think of anyone else that would be able to "carry" this feat from Ace up to Wano, so it will be limited to Ace, Black Beard, Marco, possibly Jozu and Vista.

 

[Damage3245]

@XDragnoir; King and Queen will likely be scaling to Marco. Possibly Perospero depending on the next few chapters.

 

[joshpiece]

I agree with Queen and King scaling to the feat.
chapter 1007 spoiler
Chopper monster point high 7-A

 

[LordGinSama]

******* Chopper back handing Queen yet Sanji almost gets a hole in his stomach from King.

Biggest jobber of the year tbh.

 

[XDragnoir]

@XDragnoir; King and Queen will likely be scaling to Marco. Possibly Perospero depending on the next few chapters.

Idk, i think Marco should also be left to the thread about Yonkou and Admirals, but if it reaches Peros, it would also affect all top tiers from the BM Pirates right? Iirc Peros isn't one of their main fighters. Anyway, no point alking about possibilities rn.

For now, do you also disagree with the possibility of Jinbe scaling to Ace, Damage? Even as a "possibly" in his stats?

 

[Damage3245]

I don't fully disagree to Jinbe scaling, but Jinbe also has a lot of other feats we can look to when the time comes. And who knows how the Wano revisions will change things up.

 

[XDragnoir]

So.

Alabasta low tiers get upgraded.

Enies Lobby to Sabaody get downgraded.

High tiers get a solid 7-A+ to High 7-A calc applied and they scale Via Ace.

Is that it?

Yeah, only question i have is: what will Kalifa be downgraded to? Without Doriki multipliers i am fine with Kumadori and Fukurou getting just a "7C (downscales from Blueno)" due to their doriki being really close, but Kalifa is nearly 200 dorikis below Blueno so just a "downscales" does not seem valid.

I don't fully disagree to Jinbe scaling, but Jinbe also has a lot of other feats we can look to when the time comes.

So, high tiers will have a thread of their own? Because i don't think Ace's feat should be discussed in the Post-TS thread, much less in the top tier thread.

 

[Eminiteable]

Yeah, only question i have is: what will Kalifa be downgraded to? Without Doriki multipliers i am fine with Kumadori and Fukurou getting just a "7C (downscales from Blueno)" due to their doriki being really close, but Kalifa is nearly 200 dorikis below Blueno so just a "downscales" does not seem valid.

Does she have any feats against anyone other than Nami & Sanji?

 

[KingTempest]

The only people that we are allowed to touch right now in Post Timeskip are the God Tiers. We aren't talking about anyone except the admirals and the commanders who scale to Ace.

I have plans for everyone else that's gonna change the scaling. I'm too tired of scaling Gear Fourth above the Admirals.

I'm fine with the High 7-A end working for the admirals and the Commanders.

 

[KingTempest]

Also, Marco's a commander and he's bullying 2 commanders while smiling.

Don't scale off of rank.

 

[XDragnoir]

Does she have any feats against anyone other than Nami & Sanji?

I don't think she has, but looking at the numbers, the 7C feat is a good bit above baseline 7C, maybe we can change her tiers to "at least Low 7C, possibly 7C" to both Kalifa and Nami? The gap in doriki does not mean much anymore, so it's not like nearly 200 really means she is way below them.

 

[Eminiteable]

I don't think she has, but looking at the numbers, the 7C feat is a good bit above baseline 7C, maybe we can change her tiers to "at least Low 7C, possibly 7C" to both Kalifa and Nami? The gap in doriki does not mean much anymore, so it's not like nearly 200 really means she is way below them.

Seems fine

 

[XDragnoir]

Well, just to know, who agrees with Jinbe being comparable to Ace and who does not?

 

[KingTempest]

Well, just to know, who agrees with Jinbe being comparable to Ace and who does not?

Jinbe fought Spade Pirates Ace who was untrained.

 

[Stefano4444]

Well, just to know, who agrees with Jinbe being comparable to Ace and who does not?

I agree with the scaling, i don't see how Ace would be able to get so far stronger to the point that him and Jinbe are not comparable.

And what stop Jinbe himself to get stronger as well? He isn't old enough that his age would had start to deterioration his strength.

Also, see how Jinbe is already comparable to other Top Yonko Commanders, claim that Ace is far above Jinbe would put him above even people like Jozu and Marco, which i find unlikely to be the case.

 

[XDragnoir]

When Jinbe blocked Akainu, the only thing that seems to damage him is the heat (dura neg) not the punch, and Akainu > Ace, later Jinbe got strong to the point of blocking an named attack from Big Mom, and due to his age he isn't really didn't really improve that much from pre-ts to post-ts.

 

[Eminiteable]

I agree with the scaling, i don't see how Ace would be able to get so far stronger to the point that him and Jinbe are not comparable.

And what stop Jinbe himself to get stronger as well? He isn't old enough that his age would had start to deterioration his strength.

He is extremely young and got specific training from Whitebeard while Jinbe is old and had no reason to get stronger, yes Jinbe could get stronger but an assumption that he grew at the same rate as Ace is baseless.

 

[Eminiteable]

When Jinbe blocked Akainu, the only thing that seems to damage him is the heat (dura neg) not the punch, and Akainu > Ace, later Jinbe got strong to the point of blocking an named attack from Big Mom, and due to his age he isn't really didn't really improve that much from pre-ts to post-ts.

He neutralised a punch intended to finish off near death Ace and later was shown completely powerless against an Akainu actually intending to fight Jinbe.

As for Big Mom it was Hunger pangs Big Mom.

 

[KingTempest]

Also, see how Jinbe is already comparable to other Top Yonko Commanders, claim that Ace is far above Jinbe would put him above even people like Jozu and Marco, which i find unlikely to be the case.

Isn't Jinbe fighting a Tobi Roppo, who's weaker than the Calamities, who Marco negs, who Ace is comparable to?

 

[KingTempest]

Yo.

I'll handle everyone in Marineford that's either a God Tier or a High tier.

Is everything else good? High end for the calc working for the Admirals and those who scale as of now.

Would scale to
Akainu
Aokiji
Kizaru
Marco
Jozu
Vista
Rayleigh