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Slapping tier randomly isn't concrete enough, we should wait to have something better to replace with ratings with. From what I remember there's a few calcs from that saga that need to be discussed first.
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One Piece Pre-Timeskip AP Scaling
- Thread starter KingTempest
- Start date
- Status
- 21,236
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- Thread starter
- #442
Most of that would be baseless. Enel one/two shot most of his enemies with casual attacks. Saying anyone's stronger than Enel without a "strongest foe" statement is just headcanon.
Thriller Bark characters scale to Asgard Moria who is Small City level, so everyone post-skypiea wouldn't be 7-C
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- Thread starter
- #444
No one has debunked them, I'm waiting for Damage's counter
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Never said to do it randomly, everyone in CP9 has a multiplier being applied on-top of scaling to Enel (except Kalifa) due to Blueno vs Skypiea Luffy, remove the multiplier, which was already invalidated, and we have their whole group being above Enel, if there are character that scale to L7B then they obviously aren't affected by this change, but Ashura and Doriki related ratings could be downgraded to 7C.
Stefano4444
He/Him- 6,102
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- Thread starter
- #447
I definitely forgot, but those are gatling attacks. No one has shown to scale to them.
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I thought we agreed on them being unuseable earlier in the thread?
The shadows can "multiply" a persons strength, but it is not necessarily a 100x, or a 1000x multiplier. Also, each shadow is different in strength, aren't they? You'd have to assume every single random shadow is as strong as Luffy or as strong as Moria if it is multiplying their level of strength.
Like, what is the evidence for the multiplier exactly? That Luffy and Moria got stronger? That alone isn't enough for a multiplier.
Stefano4444
He/Him- 6,102
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- #450
We agreed on the incredibly inflated results to not be used.
Shadows don't vary in strength. It's all based on the user.
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- Thread starter
- #451
Alright, would Luffy backscale?
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Isn't this moot then?
Stefano4444
He/Him- 6,102
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Pretty sure it would not, it was Luffy who did the feat in the first place, Enel too should fully scale.
I can only see Zoro, Sanji and characters comparable to them be backscale to Luffy's feat.
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I'm against using Luffy's gatling with the golden ball as the basis for scaling here. I don't think we've ever done that for Luffy in all of One Piece.
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- Thread starter
- #456
Someone sum up the reasons why scaling to the golden ball would work and why it wouldn't work again please?
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A think a good argument was made but then it was deemed as an outlier
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- Thread starter
- #458
There's literally no way to call a town - large town level feat an outlier when they have small city feats down the line...
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The only reason why it is so high is because of the sheer mass of the golden ball in the first place. Something Luffy's fist ordinarily lacks. Some people don't believe this is an issue, but I do.
More importantly though, there's also the issue of it not just being the force of Luffy's attack the disrupts the cloud, but the fact that the golden ball is specified as being a conductor. Meaning it is possible that the feat simply couldn't have happened without the ball being present, meaning it is not just AP-based.
Look at it like this;
1) Luffy swings his arms around, but from the outside the clouds are still in their spherical shape.
2) Luffy's golden conductor discharges the electricity that is holding the clouds together in a sphere, and the whole thing collapses.
So it's possible that it isn't Luffy's swinging alone that is pushing the clouds back, but also the lack of Enel's electricity holding it together that is causing it to fall to pieces.
And as you mentioned, it is a gatling attack in regards of the cloud. So it's actually Luffy swinging his arms around in all directions possible dozens of times, not just a straight punch or one swing.
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Why not add a *next to his justification as "with golden ball" its not like its an outlier or breaks the scaling of pre timeskip. if it had an outcome of mountain or even high city level I would understand. but just like tempest said there's even small city feats down the line.
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We can, the problem is that no one would scale, even the multiplier via shadows wouldn't scale to anyone due to shadows not being used anymore, so we still need to find another way to tier them.
I still think the 7C downgrade is the best option, since it only changes CP9 and a few TB characters (i.e tiers that were previously based on multipliers), so we will be able to discuss Post-TS again, where most of the scaling problems are.
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I said in the past that I'm fine with that option, but others didn't like it.
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I think we can jump MF, but anyway, Aokiji has that 419MTs calc so if we go to MF before post-TS i think most characters would get an "at least 419MTs" until we go to post-TS where there are better feats to scale the high and top tiers
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Lol you cleary aren't up to date with the calcs of the verse huh?
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No.
MF is gonna need quite the big revision tho given that there's gonna be some upgraded calcs that need to be reviewed.
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There are some in Kingtempest’s blog. don’t know if it’s all of them though.
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Need to wait for them to get accepted, after they do we'll make a CRT on Marineford stats.
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- Thread starter
- #472
Ace's passive feat was accepted (Thanks Damage!)
It's a 7-A+ to High 7-A calc.
vsbattles.fandom.com
So now the admirals have a different place to scale instead of 419 megatons. Thank God.
We're gonna have a separate thread for the God Tier scaling since this affects more than Marineford people. That on its own is a large topic. Unless you guys want to do it here, then we can.
It's a 7-A+ to High 7-A calc.
Ace Passively Heats up Drum Island
vsbattles.fandom.com
So now the admirals have a different place to scale instead of 419 megatons. Thank God.
We're gonna have a separate thread for the God Tier scaling since this affects more than Marineford people. That on its own is a large topic. Unless you guys want to do it here, then we can.
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Are both the results usable ?
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- Thread starter
- #474
Both are usable and accepted.
The first one is accounting for everything under a certain mountain, the second one is accounting for everything under the certain mountain + under the clouds (which I failed to account for previously).
Regardless, this scales to everyone who currently scales to Aokiji's 419 Megaton calc.
The first one is accounting for everything under a certain mountain, the second one is accounting for everything under the certain mountain + under the clouds (which I failed to account for previously).
Regardless, this scales to everyone who currently scales to Aokiji's 419 Megaton calc.
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- Thread starter
- #475
Luffy doesn't go into the average fight with a golden ball on his hand, especially since he can't melt it on there. It's like giving Oars "with Whitebeard's ship".
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I think most of them are accepted, no? Mitch said the H6C calc was good, Ugarik did the same in the 6B-H6B calcs.
But since it will have a thread of it's own, we need to finish this one ASAP.
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- #478
Every single one except the newest one has been accepted (it hasn't been declined, it's just waiting for approval).
Agree
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Momonosuke should get a profile, so we can add Zunesha as optional equipment and make him the strongest one piece character in this wiki as of now.
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For cases where there's multiple versions of the calcs for the feats, we'll need a Calc Group thread.
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