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One Piece Pre-Timeskip AP Scaling

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What else is there to scale in pre timeskip if y’all don’t mind me asking.

also is there really no other justification for akainu not scaling to wb than just stuck in there ways? It’s seems crazy that akainu can clash, take hits, and blow off wb head but still not scale to him
 
Damage3245 said:
I'm not really concerned with Machvise's rating at the moment. We can take another look at how he scales when we go back to Post-Timeskip scaling.
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Fair enough.

The point is that we shouldn't have to scale this using a calc. Whoever hurts who is whoever hurts who, simple.
XDragnoir said:
Also, Miss Valentine was sitting in a very sensitive spot iirc, so i don't think the feat is even valid at all.
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She sat on his waist

joshpiece said:
What else is there to scale in pre timeskip if y’all don’t mind me asking.

also is there really no other justification for akainu not scaling to wb than just stuck in there ways? It’s seems crazy that akainu can clash, take hits, and blow off wb head but still not scale to him
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We've had a lot of discussions, and someone even tried to put a discussion rule against scaling the Admirals to Yonko.
 
joshpiece said:
What else is there to scale in pre timeskip if y’all don’t mind me asking.

also is there really no other justification for akainu not scaling to wb than just stuck in there ways? It’s seems crazy that akainu can clash, take hits, and blow off wb head but still not scale to him
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He has hax, regen, and Haki pre-ts is a pain understand where it is being used and where it is not.

But since we are going to revise the tiers, i think we could start to scale the Admirals to WB, otherwise there is a chance they will be below G4.


Btw, can someone remind me what happened with the "new" feats pre-ts Luffy got against the Admirals? Are they invalid/outliers?
 
XDragnoir said:
He has hax, regen, and Haki pre-ts is a pain understand where it is being used and where it is not.
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Pre Timeskip, everyone used Haki, we just couldn't see it, so we assumed that no one had it on.
I fail to understand why God Tiers fighting God Tiers would hold back and not use their full potential.

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If Rayleigh's using Haki on Luffy, you think Akainu not gon use it on Whitebeard? What?

XDragnoir said:
But since we are going to revise the tiers, i think we could start to scale the Admirals to WB, otherwise there is a chance they will be below G4.
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They've been below G4 since G4 was added to the wiki.
XDragnoir said:
Btw, can someone remind me what happened with the "new" feats pre-ts Luffy got against the Admirals? Are they invalid/outliers?
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Someone contact Dr. Fix.
 
joshpiece said:
we definitely need to find where the admirals scale. I think we all can agree on Admirals> gear 4th
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That's scaling based in position which can't be used anymore.

Also, Tempest, you know that stats with haki are going to be split to all characters, right? So this does not help at all, for example:

KingTempest said:
you think Akainu not gon use it on Whitebeard?
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Akainu does not need haki to hit WB, so if he did use haki it will not scale to his normal stats
 
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XDragnoir said:
Also, Tempest, you know that stats with haki are going to be split to all characters, right? So this does not help at all, afaik
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I mean it does, they'd still apply on the profiles (not doing so would just be disingenuous of character's full capabilities)
 
That's like giving someone 2 ratings for speed, a running rating and a walking rating
 
KingTempest said:
That's like giving someone 2 ratings for speed, a running rating and a walking rating
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I agree, the only reason I think it would be necessary for two ratings is for scaling purposes (if a character scales to someone but not when that character is using haki or something)

But in terms of actual combat in a Vs debate it's utterly useless since these characters are assumed to fight at their strongest and would use haki regardless.
 
KingTempest said:
That's like giving someone 2 ratings for speed, a running rating and a walking rating
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We do have several speed ratings tho, and they are listed separately in many profiles.

Eminiteable said:
I agree, the only reason I think it would be necessary for two ratings is for scaling purposes (if a character scales to someone but not when that character is using haki or something)
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Good points, iirc it was Fix (or Cameron) who had this idea, i think we should call them to discuss this.
 
Sorry for being out for a while.

So the Large Building+ is there.

@Damage3245, someone informed me (not involved w/ VSBW) that Vaporization seemed like it would work with Crocodile's Desert Spada, via the smoke that came from the ground. Do you have any views on that?
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It would be a support for small town-town Alabasta characters.
 
For some reason I stopped getting notifications for this.

As for vaporization, I believe under our current standards we wouldn't assume that. It needs to be stated or more heavily suggested than that.
 
Damage3245 said:
For some reason I stopped getting notifications for this.

As for vaporization, I believe under our current standards we wouldn't assume that. It needs to be stated or more heavily suggested than that.
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The sfx in both instances show a sizzling effect, and the first one might be because of the sand, but the second is there.
I can't find a definition, but it shows the same sfx (the dark red one) that is used with Ace's Mera Mera.
  • Here, here, here, here, here.
Signifying that Oda wanted to portray a burning effect, which is why the smoke is there.

Vaporisation: Applied when the matter that was destroyed was vaporised during the attack. Much like for Pulverization, we usually use this value when we see no remains of the matter that was destroyed in the attack, but in addition there has to be a considerable amount of visible vapor and/or character statements that imply vaporization, usually the latter.
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We see no matter (Pulverization and Vaporization).
A good amount of vapor.
Burning sound effects.
 
I wouldn't call that a considerable amount of vapor; it's mostly just at the end of the building and a small bit from the actual crevice itself. As the quoted bit also says, we usually rely on statements for vaporization.

Crocodile also used the exact same attack in the desert and there wasn't any vapor there either.
 
Damage3245 said:
I wouldn't call that a considerable amount of vapor; it's mostly just at the end of the building and a small bit from the actual crevice itself.
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It was a good amount for the size. the attack wasn't a super large attack like Hiken or Red Dog, it's a small amount of rock. And it still had smoke. Smoke wouldn't c
Damage3245 said:
As the quoted bit also says, we usually rely on statements for vaporization.
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It does say that yes, but it doesn't say it's required.
Damage3245 said:
Crocodile also used the exact same attack in the desert and there wasn't any vapor there either.
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It's sand, it probably fell through the ground, which we see in the sand's movement and how it's moving towards the ground.
 
I recall something Dargoo said about how the organic matter present may be what contributes to the vapor/smoke, and not necessarily the ground itself that is vaporizing. I know that they've retired on here, but maybe @Dargoo_Faust can share their thoughts on this feat.
 
Nightmare Luffy is 100x more powerful than Base Luffy.

Exhausted end of thriller bark base luffy tanked several hits from Asgard Moriah with 1000 shadows (x1000 base moriah) in that same arc, when beggining of Thriller bark Luffy base alone could not even overpower a single shadow from Moria, his doppelganger.

Yet End of Thriller bark exhausted base Luffy complety negates a shadows box that could winstand several blows from Shadows asgards moriah (Which is x1000 base Skypea Luffy)

Luffy and company get stronger every time they have fights or past island, this is said by Zoro and Rayleigh says it too but with haki, so there is no problem with in-island powers ups, because is stated by Oda that is a thing.

So the scale can go like this:
End of thriller bark Luffy>Shadows Asgard moriah (x1000, maybe like x900 he losed a few shadows)>nightmare Luffy (x100)>Oars>gecko moriah>Beggining of Thriller bark base Luffy

I guess this is also an outlier or abuse of multipliers?
 
unworthy said:
Yet End of Thriller bark exhausted base Luffy complety negates a shadows box that could winstand several blows from Shadows asgards moriah (Which is x1000 base Skypea Luffy)
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Asgard Moriah's punch pretty much crumpled and destroyed the shadow box so it's no suprise Luffy had no issue breaking out of it at that point.
unworthy said:
Exhausted end of thriller bark base luffy tanked several hits from Asgard Moriah with 1000 shadows (x1000 base moriah) in that same arc, when beggining of Thriller bark Luffy base alone could not even overpower a single shadow from Moria, his doppelganger.
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Luffy tanked those hits because just like he said he's made of rubber and he's being hit with blunt force, him not being able to overpower him doesn't mean he wouldn't tank base Moria's blunt force hits either & doesn't mean he can overpower Asgard Moria's hits because he can tank them.
 
Yeah, they're increasing Luffy's strength but it doesn't say anywhere than 1 shadow = 1 multiplier. I don't see why we would accept that Luffy withstanding 100 shadows gives him a 100x multiplier.

I also don't know how you could seriously be arguing that exhausted Luffy at the end of a fight if over a thousand times stronger than himself at the beginning of a fight. Luffy doesn't have Zenkai.
 
unworthy said:
Nightmare Luffy is 100x more powerful than Base Luffy.
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The "multiply your strength" quote has no number, just like Asura the number of the multiplier is coming from a number that wasn't stated to be the multiplier, for reference, in KHR there is a multiplier without stated number and it nearly wasn't accepted, we only were able to get it accepted for a lot of reasons that don't apply to OP.
 
Quick skipping over.

I made a calc for Ace. It got 7-A+ to High 7-A results. We're using it for a justification for his "Possibly High 7-A" since the current justification (Aokiji and Doflamingo) is really bad.
 
XDragnoir said:
The "multiply your strength" quote has no number, just like Asura the number of the multiplier is coming from a number that wasn't stated to be the multiplier, for reference, in KHR there is a multiplier without stated number and it nearly wasn't accepted, we only were able to get it accepted for a lot of reasons that don't apply to OP.
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For a man who likes to bring up strict rules it's pretty funny to see you supporting "Non stated multiplier."


Tell me where it is and rest assured I'll make a CRT to get it removed. There is no "other reason that don't apply to OP." unless it's like Fairy Tails Dragon Force situation, which I doubt it is.


Actually no hold up. First of all, that KHR thread for the multiplier was never accepted. So let's not even go into that comparison, in no way am I suggesting this multiplier is legitimate matter of fact I share the opposite opinion of that, but don't come into this thread using KHR as if it's any less worse of a violation.
 
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Mr.Cinos15 said:
It still baffles me how KHR got to 6-B from a High 7-A calc via sheer multipliers.
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One that doesn't even have a stated number either. The statement itself doesn't even make mention of any sort of physical prowess but rather that of abilities. Which speaks for potency, not physical strength.
 
Wow okay, looks like this verse is getting hit with the downgrade Hammer tonight after my shower.
 
Mr.Cinos15 said:
Bruh

and people be making fun of DB for it's multipliers.
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No like really, first of all there is no 7-A+ calc. The calc is 181 Megatons and even then the value is gonna be a lot lower, as it bases it's cloud method on an outdated formula.



Needlessly scrutinizing one verse while being blatantly ignorant of the flaws of his own verse.
 
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