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The High 7-A and 7-C calcs were rendered false by calc group members; so this changes the justification for literally every profile in the verse, except Doctor Shamal. at least until we can get someone to re-do the calcs or propose other feats to calc.

The 7-A+ and 8-A calcs are still legit, so the new ratings with multipliers (Which are already accepted) will be centered around those. Along with me proposing a new multiplier which only slightly changes Tier 7 and up ratings.

New Tiers

1) All 7-C ratings are brought down to "At least 8-A" Scaling to Gokudera one-shotting Levi.

2) Tsuna's "7-C+, likely High 7-C" rating wouldn't change because it's based on backscaling rather than upscaling.

3) There is an additional Multiplier which isn't yet accepted, but stated On chapter 261 "The opening of the Hell Hole is, the multiplication of abilities. It's the multiplication of the box animal's special abilities and users' abilities." I would take it that 'multiplication' without a stated multiplier would just be taken as meaning 2x. This would bring people on or above the level of Zakuro's Hell Hole box being opened at 1.794 Gigatons. Which means, most of the High 7-A ratings wouldn't change, it'd just be lower in potency and have different justification.

Applying Multipliers

Option 1 If number 3 is accepted: 6-C (23 Gigatons is now 17.94 Gigatons; 34 Gigatons is now 28.7), High 6-C (238 Gigatons is now 200.928 Gigatons), Low 6-B (2.38 Teratons is now 2 Teratons), 6-B (14 Teratons is now 12), High 6-B (Kawahira is now 120 Teratons)


Option 2 If Number 3 isn't Accepted: 6-C (8.97 Gigatons, 14.35 gigatons), At least 6-C+, likely High 6-C for those slightly comparable to or slightly below Enma. Baseline High 6-C for those on the level of Enma or above (100.464 Gigatons), High 6-C+ to Low 6-B (1 Teraton), Low 6-B+ to baseline 6B for those far above Daemon Spade (6 Teratons), 6-B+ (Kawahira is far above 60 Teratons)


I think I covered all of the AP stuff here. If option 1 is accepted, I don't think the higher tier for any character changes at all. Only the justification for High 7-A.
 
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The multiplier is already accepted, it is the reason Hibari only has H7A and no 7A in his choice key.

Also, i still don't understand, the problem with the choice x-burner calc is the the multiplier or something else?
 
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The main thing I believe Damage had is that it's not provable that 20 skyscrapers were destroyed.

Edit: You can estimate or guesstimate that number, but it's not provable because of smoke obscuring the feat.
 
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Iirc Doffy only said it increased Luffy's strength several times, but it was a long time ago, maybe there was indeed a direct number, but i still don't see why this one wouldn't be valid when KHR uses multipliers consistently across the entire series.
 
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That's an acceptable form of a multiplier since several means 3. Just saying something multiplying your power without being able to give.it a number value isn't the correct use.
 
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That's an acceptable form of a multiplier since several means 3. Just saying something multiplying your power without being able to give.it a number value isn't the correct use.
Actually, several aren't exact values as it means 3 or more. We just use 3 in here as it is a minimum value that can be possible for several.

Same case for multiply. If someone says "This creature can multiply itself", What do you think about possible value in here? 1.5x? 1.75x? Nope, It should be at least 2x, right? Since 2x is the minimum value that can be possible when we talk about multiply. So I don't see why we can't use 2x for the word "multiply" here.
 
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Actually, several aren't exact values as it means 3 or more. We just use 3 in here as it is a minimum value that can be possible for several.

Same case for multiply. If someone says "This creature can multiply itself", What do you think about possible value in here? 1.5x? 1.75x? Nope, It should be at least 2x, right? Since 2x is the minimum value that can be possible when we talk about multiply. So I don't see why we can't use 2x for the word "multiply" here.
Several gives us a baseline number, which can be used while using “multiplication” does not give us the same thing.
 
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And I just said that the baseline number of multiply is 2. Can the virus multiply itself from 1 to 1.5? No, It should be at least 2. So 2 is the baseline number here.
It's just something that ordinary in real life.
 
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And I just said that the baseline number of multiply is 2. Can the virus multiply itself from 1 to 1.5? No, It should be at least 2. So 2 is the baseline number here.
It's just something that ordinary in real life.
That's a false equivalency. Without a stated multiplier, this can't be used.
 
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I don't like One Piece's multipliers, doriki were never used after Enies Lobby, Asura is going to be removed, why G4 was accepted is a mystery to me, since multipliers need to be consistent in the entire verse, and not just a one time thing.
 
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So there is an issue with the 7-A+ calc. We have a standard mountain height we usually use for the wiki which is 609 m, also the perspective of the mountain and cloud don't seem to match up. Theres also the issue of calcing the height of the cloud as before I was told that's something that shouldn't be done. The last thing is, I'd suggest using higher quality scans.
 
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Isn't the standard mountain height from when mountains aren't scalable.
I'm not really sure. Even if that is true, how the mountain size is being calced would be incorrect due to the perspective. If anything I'd suggest asking some more calc members to look at it.
 

Celestial_Pegasus

VS Battles
Sysop
Human Resources
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I watched and read this series like what, half a decade or more ago, so when it comes to feats my memory is foggy.

Can't comment on the 7-A+ calc possibly being wrong since that's not my area of expertise.

Neutral on option 1 for the multipliers, personally multiplication of abilities could mean anything since no value is given, though yea i would assume it would mean at least 2, but it's an assumption, with several, you can say it's 3 cause several means 3 or more.

Option 2 is fine.
 
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I think i can add a bit more information about why a 2x makes sense:

1- it is said to multiply;
2- box weapons "scale" to their user, so a shield would have H7C dura if used by a H7C, and 8A if used by a 8A, a Carnage Box is a special type of box able to release the same energy that would go to another weapon inside their own body;
3- a few arcs before them we have weaker characters getting a 4 times multiplier by concentrating DWFs in one attack (X Burner) and a further upgrade of 25% (or a 5x multiplier, if you want) by going all out (Hyper X Burner). Note, we are not trying to get a 4/5 multiplier, just to show multipliers are a thing in Reborn when using a similar method (releasing inside themselves and concentrating in a single spot).

If the 7A+ calc isn't valid anymore the multipliers would start at H7C, so only the top tiers would go back to tier 6 :(
 
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7A+ was already accepted.

"- box weapons "scale" to their user, so a shield would have H7C dura if used by a H7C, and 8A if used by a 8A, a Carnage Box is a special type of box able to release the same energy that would go to another weapon inside their own body;"

^This is a really good point that I didn't even think about. Box weapons naturally scale to the user, that's they can harm and defend themselves against other tier 7s using them. It's flat out stated that the amount of flames put into the box also influences how strong the box weapon is. So, if Carnage are like any other boxes, they would naturally scale to the user; and since carnage box makes the user themselves a box weapon it should be:

Original Power + Original Power.
 
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We should get calc group members here then; because as someone who's not into calcs (Always been terrible at math), I don't really understand the points you proposed against it.
 
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We should get calc group members here then; because as someone who's not into calcs (Always been terrible at math), I don't really understand the points you proposed against it.
That's a good idea. Though, it's not the math I had an issue with since I'm also terrible at it, it's the px scaling and assumption that I have an issue with.
 
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I mean, here's the thing.... Even if we go with the lowball 609 or so meters for the mountain, it wouldn't cut the result by even half from my understanding.

If someone could do the math of what that'd be...that'd be great.

And as far as getting a better scan for the cloud goes... the scan itself isn't terrible (Although it isn't that good either but trying to get something better in 2020 isn't happening), it deliberately looks fuzzy like that because it was being projected through a hologram. That's why that looks particularly fuzzy when compared to the other panels.
 
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If the result doesn't change much, that would make scaling easier ( though I think the result will change a good amount). The calc that is referenced in the feat for the cloud height has been rejected and isn't being used at the moment. Even so, scaling to the cloud to get the mountain height in itself isn't correct either way. Getting higher quality scans shouldn't really be hard if they are on a trusted manga site.
 

M3X

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I was asked to comment here by @Wrath Of Itachi about the 7-A+ calculation. I don't know why he didn't ask a CGM smh.

Okay, first of all, mountain size. The mountain can be taller than 609m, this value is the literal lowest possible height for a mountain, aka the smallest one. Using the cloud height is wack too.

Aside from the arbitrary assumption of the 4 lava pillars having the same size/volume, we don't calc lava creation like that. He didn't create any lava, just caused an eruption. KE should be used, or PE. But not normally, since some parts are moving faster than others.
 
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So I just looked at the verse page and three of the accepted calcs aren't viable. The next usable calc is Tsunas X-burner calc (290 Kilotons.) How would that scaling work?
 
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So I just looked at the verse page and three of the accepted calcs aren't viable. The next usable calc is Tsunas X-burner calc (290 Kilotons.) How would that scaling work?
The same way, multipliers times multipliers times multipliers.

If you are asking about the values:
2x290=580KTs
10x580=5,800KTs
1,6x5800=9,280KTs
7x9280=64,960KTs
10x64960=649,600KTs
6x649600=3,897,600KTs
20x3897600=77,952,000KTs
 
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The same way, multipliers times multipliers times multipliers.

If you are asking about the values:
2x290=580KTs
10x580=5,800KTs
1,6x5800=9,280KTs
7x9280=64,960KTs
10x64960=649,600KTs
6x649600=3,897,600KTs
20x3897600=77,952,000KTs
where is the ×20 from?
Edit : if its for Kawahira, it should be ×30 since he said several tens and several would be 30 in this case ;)
 
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btw I have a question which seems off topic, can we calc the energy which is needed to teleport sth or there is no way to calc it?
 
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Byakuran? I thought you were talking about Bermuda (top 10 worst anime names), when did Byakuran use teleportation?
he teleported the whole base from Japan to Italy he used a device to that but they mentioned that the device works by flames and so I asked if there is a method to calc the energy he needed to do that
 
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how much was the shimon island big? I remember there were towns and mountains there, is it normal island size or large island?
 
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Well, the island had a town and mountains iirc, i think it would be a large island, but do we have standard island sizes?
 

DMUA

VS Battles
Calculation Group
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Yeah the measurements look really funky on that one

... I also note that I said this should work on it a year ago and I feel like I'll be dealing with what I offhandedly looked at and said "this is entirely fine" for the rest of my life
 
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Well, i think we can just use the H7C multipliers until someone does a new calc to get a new value. And can we just do? I want to end this CRT to do the speed, luck and NPI CRT, damn.
 
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Well, at least I don't have any plan to look at those calcs again recently So yeah use H7C multipliers for now

Then, the result will be like this

2x for Box of Carnage is 590 Kilotons of TNT (Large Town level+)
I think that Tsuna's X Burner can upscale to baseline Low 7-B (1 Megaton of TNT) since he one-shotted Box of Carnage Torikabuto with it.
Then 10x for Byakuran is 10 Megaton of TNT (City level)
1.6x for OVR Tsuna is 16 Megaton of TNT (City level)
7x for Enma is 112 Megaton of TNT (Mountain level)
10x for Daemon is 1.12 Gigantons of TNT (Large Mountain level)
6x for six body is 6.72 Gigantons of TNT (Island level)
30x for Kawahira is 201.6 Gigantons of TNT (Large Island level)
 

DMUA

VS Battles
Calculation Group
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you can just swap out the mountain height for 609.6 meters and still keep the results mostly the same
 
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well since XDragon seems to be preparing or already have prepared for other abilities CRT, we can use the H7C and do another calcs in the future
 
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I was asked to comment here by @Wrath Of Itachi about the 7-A+ calculation. I don't know why he didn't ask a CGM smh.

Okay, first of all, mountain size. The mountain can be taller than 609m, this value is the literal lowest possible height for a mountain, aka the smallest one. Using the cloud height is wack too.

Aside from the arbitrary assumption of the 4 lava pillars having the same size/volume, we don't calc lava creation like that. He didn't create any lava, just caused an eruption. KE should be used, or PE. But not normally, since some parts are moving faster than others.
There's more wromg with the calc than just the mountain scaling.
 

DMUA

VS Battles
Calculation Group
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oh

Yeah causing an eruption wouldn't be generating lava, if anything it would probably be just, pressurizing the ground below

Or I guess just fragging it and having everything spew out for some reason
 
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I think that Tsuna's X Burner can upscale to baseline Low 7-B (1 Megaton of TNT) since he one-shotted Box of Carnage Torikabuto with it.
Meh, what are our standards about upgrades via one shooting right now? I think there was a CRT about that i but can't remember, if it was accepted then there is no problem i guess.
 
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Meh, what are our standards about upgrades via one shooting right now? I think there was a CRT about that i but can't remember, if it was accepted then there is no problem i guess.
I believe that upscale from + to baseline in the next tier is something can do if it shows that it far stronger. Nanatsu no Taizai verse also has some tiers come from upscale from calc with + result too.
 
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Well, if the others have no objection and we already do it to other verses there is no problem then (i think you may need to add the scans for Tsuna one shooting Torikabuto to the OP), do you want help or a full list of pages that would need to be updated?
 
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Non-Physical Interaction, and luck is... luck.

But if you mean in KHR, Tsuna seems to be the choosen of the sky ring, which granted him some really strong supernatural luck, and NPI comes from DWFs interacting with souls.
 
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We should find someone to redo that calc. Instead of just tossing out the feat.

Edit:

I mean, wouldn't using pressure underground to turn a mountain into an active volcano which erupts, provide a higher result than generating lava anyway?


Via KE and shizz.
 

M3X

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Why you had to write like this to tell me? lol

Well, look at DMUA suggestion. Look like it just a simple way to fix it. So I took a quick time for recalc.

The new result is 181.27 Megatons of TNT
It's funny the way you simply ignored everything I said that is wrong with the calc and simply used 609m for the mountain. Calc it properly and get your Tier 8 result.
 
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We should find someone to redo that calc. Instead of just tossing out the feat.

Edit:

I mean, wouldn't using pressure underground to turn a mountain into an active volcano which erupts, provide a higher result than generating lava anyway?


Via KE and shizz.
IDK, there are 3 options

1- finding someone to do a re-calc (IDK what the results will be)
2- using Daemon’s statement when he said Enma can wreck up the island but we need to find out the size of the island
3- tossing out the feat and move on with the levels that XDragon put above

I'm likely with option 1
 
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The eruptions themselves would have to happen pretty fast as well, because we see no eruption column. Which travels several kilometers per second and would normally come before the lava.

So that could work in favor of a KE calc.
 
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Well, at least I don't have any plan to look at those calcs again recently So yeah use H7C multipliers for now

Then, the result will be like this

2x for Box of Carnage is 590 Kilotons of TNT (Large Town level+)
I think that Tsuna's X Burner can upscale to baseline Low 7-B (1 Megaton of TNT) since he one-shotted Box of Carnage Torikabuto with it.
Then 10x for Byakuran is 10 Megaton of TNT (City level)
1.6x for OVR Tsuna is 16 Megaton of TNT (City level)
7x for Enma is 112 Megaton of TNT (Mountain level)
10x for Daemon is 1.12 Gigantons of TNT (Large Mountain level)
6x for six body is 6.72 Gigantons of TNT (Island level)
30x for Kawahira is 201.6 Gigantons of TNT (Large Island level)
Meh, there is another multiplier, the H7C feat was done by 200,000 FV X-Burner, Choice Arc Tsuna has a casual punch with 300,000 FV (1,5x stronger than his X-Burner), so before using the Carnage Box multiplier there is the 1,5x multiplier, it does not change the end result, since one shooting Torikabuto would still be L7B for X-Burner, but since i am going to use this multiplier for speed, we need to use it for AP. Anyone with a Choice Arc key would scale to this 1,5x multiplier, btw, since they are all somewhat comparable and Tsuna was casual.
 
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Meh, there is another multiplier, the H7C feat was done by 200,000 FV X-Burner, Choice Arc Tsuna has a casual punch with 300,000 FV (1,5x stronger than his X-Burner), so before using the Carnage Box multiplier there is the 1,5x multiplier, it does not change the end result, since one shooting Torikabuto would still be L7B for X-Burner, but since i am going to use this multiplier for speed, we need to use it for AP. Anyone with a Choice Arc key would scale to this 1,5x multiplier, btw, since they are all somewhat comparable and Tsuna was casual.
I remember it was 320,000 but I'm not sure, also it will be at least *1.5

Edit: its 300,000
 
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Well, these are all the FVs values we have? If we find more we could get more multipliers earlier, which would raise the pre-carnage box ap quite a bit.
 
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Well, these are all the FVs values we have? If we find more we could get more multipliers earlier, which would raise the pre-carnage box ap quite a bit.
Actually, there's another one. When Tsuna and guardians release their energy to make Byakuran's teleporter active. They generated 10 million FV for this.

I divide it by 7, that means the average FV that each of them can generate is 1428571 FV

Anyway.. I don't know that we allow using FV for multiplier or not. I was told in the past (maybe 3 years ago IIRC) that there isn't any proof about FV and AP will Interact like linear.

But that thing that was discussed several years ago. So maybe I'm outdated here.
 
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3 years ago was before multipliers were accepted iirc, and Tsuna was already using this in his profile since his last upgrade.
 
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