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These are all good points.
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One Piece: Pre-Timeskip AP Revision
- Thread starter GodlyCharmander
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GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
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His Striking Strength cannot be inferior to Golden Rifle's energy because Luffy was the cataclysm for that much energy.
He employed that much energy into the attack himself. No gravity, or angular movement (he actually had to go against gravity, so he employed more than 17 megatons into the punch)
Also, massive difference between Luffy at the start of the fight vs Luffy at the end of the fight with Enel.
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If that was the case then he shouldn't be able to strike with it at all. It's his arm's strength that's swinging it, not anything else.
That I agree with. Rifle hits way harder than Pistol as far as the canon's shown us.
Agreed, also.
Unless Luffy hit Usopp with a rifle, then we can't scale off him that technique itself. Downscaling to baseline seems like a fine neutral stand for me as well. Usopp being the "weakest" in the crew is likely enough grounds to land him at the baseline of every tier he scales to off the other straw hats.
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Honestly I agree with downscaling to Baseline 7-B.
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Thanks. Considering Usopp's general inferiority like you said, I think that downscaling him to baseline City level is a reasonable idea.
Thanks.
@ByAsura; what do you think of my propsoal for downscaling Usopp to baseline 7-B instead of scaling to the full value of the Gold Rifle calc?
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Okay, thanks for responding.
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That's what makes it a "rifle".
What was calced was Luffy moving the ball in a straight line at a certain speed. The "rifle" portion wasn't, which is why there is no calc of spinning the ball.
The punch portion would be what scales to Luffy's regular physicals, which he already calced.
Nobody calced spinning the ball.
Luffy broke the ball with said force.
People aren't breaking the hammer.
Luffy emitted enough force while the ball was already sent out to break the ball which could take the initial golden rifle impact. Luffy's emitted force > golden ball dura ~ golden rifle.
Bad comparison.
This is a regular Luffy kick, not a kick enhanced by the Gomu Gomu no Mi. False equivalence. It's confirmed those kicks are weaker than his Gomu Gomu enhanced attacks.
And Luffy kept pushing Enel with the golden ball after he hit him, which is why Enel didn't fly away.
Usopp injured himself with the Impact Dial and Usopp was already injured from prior injuries from the same arc when he got his ass beat by the Franky Family. They flat out say in the fight that he was already injured badly.
Like come on now. This is narrative stuff with easy explanations.
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
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- #289
Usopp could take the backlash of Luffy's Bazooka, which is twice as strong as his normal attacks, I don't know if baseline City level is appropriate.
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Backscaling is unfounded.
Unless Char calced the momentum caused by spinning the ball, which he didn't, then this is fair game
Unless Char calced the momentum caused by spinning the ball, which he didn't, then this is fair game
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Small correction but it was downscaling, not backscaling.
Will be back to this thread in a few hours.
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Would he scale to the Bazooka value then? Or would he just scale to Luffy's striking in general? The fact that he could stop an attack twice as strong as Luffy's base attacks does imply he's at least that durable (just not endurant enough to take it multiple times)
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Agreed.
Would we say the Bazooka is comparable to the Gold Rifle?
Just curious, would it be possible to calc the spinning?
I'm just curious to see if it would affect the calc.
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This is impact dial work, not Usopp work. He didn't block the bazooka, the impact dial absorbed the impact.
He scales to Luffy's striking
Idk go find a method
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
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- #296
It would considerably increase the result. I might do that so it scales to Luffy's Rifle attacks.
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yeah
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Just curious, when has he used Jet Bazooka or Gigant Bazooka against major opponents?
Not to derail but that could be important later.
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This doesn't have anything to do with the CRT at hand.
Jet Bazooka was used on Lucci and Magellan. Gigant Bazooka was used on Oars
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Sorry, and thank you.
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I'm still in agreement with KingTempest
1. The Mr. 3 thing isn't a good point first of all, a regular Candle Wall is not gonna be as stronger as the Candle Champion, which is notably like Mr. 3's strongest ability.
2. Remember the calc for the Golden Rifle isn't actually measuring the Rifle spin or anything like that. It's just measuring Luffy's ability to regularly punch a Golden Ball at those speeds, which he can do, meaning the force of his punch has that strength regularly and he could have done that whenever he wanted. Now this is also supported by how the Golden Peony is a comparable or stronger attack than the Golden Rifle and yet Shigan is stated to be stronger than it, meaning even someone like Kalifa has AP above the Golden Rifle, so narratively the notion that characters are above the Golden attacks is there
3. Usopp's durability absolutely scales to Luffy. Dude was severely damaged all over his entire body and took a punch from Luffy and immediately could keep fighting. He then also uses an Impact Dial to absorb a Bazooka and then withstands the blowback force of using it on Luffy. Like there is no way in hell Usopp does not scale.
1. The Mr. 3 thing isn't a good point first of all, a regular Candle Wall is not gonna be as stronger as the Candle Champion, which is notably like Mr. 3's strongest ability.
2. Remember the calc for the Golden Rifle isn't actually measuring the Rifle spin or anything like that. It's just measuring Luffy's ability to regularly punch a Golden Ball at those speeds, which he can do, meaning the force of his punch has that strength regularly and he could have done that whenever he wanted. Now this is also supported by how the Golden Peony is a comparable or stronger attack than the Golden Rifle and yet Shigan is stated to be stronger than it, meaning even someone like Kalifa has AP above the Golden Rifle, so narratively the notion that characters are above the Golden attacks is there
3. Usopp's durability absolutely scales to Luffy. Dude was severely damaged all over his entire body and took a punch from Luffy and immediately could keep fighting. He then also uses an Impact Dial to absorb a Bazooka and then withstands the blowback force of using it on Luffy. Like there is no way in hell Usopp does not scale.
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Where was this stated? It basically seals the deal that CP>Golden attacks
Usopp took a direct hit from Jabura and immidiately got back up so he DEFINITELY scales over the golden rifle if it's stated Shigan is over it
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Sorry I just found something.
So Shigan > Golden Peony and Golden Rifle
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"But the most powerful one so far is ranked 25th, the finger pistol"
The lists of attacks is a favorite attack thing.
But Oda said Shigan is the strongest one out of everything they named.
The poll isn't proof, the statement on the side about Shigan being superior to everything else is
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Just want to say, even if we accept that as being valid it specifies the Shigan that beat Luffy and Zoro. A Shigan from Kalifa isn't necessarily going to as strong as Lucci or Kaku.
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How did I miss that-
Nevermind then. CP9>Golden attacks
Usopp is scaling based on the fact that he took bloodlusted attacks from Jabura even if the Golden attacks and Luffy aren't enough proof
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Which chapter did Usopp take them?
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He took a Ten Finger pistol from Jabra while his guard was off
And got up again immidiately
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It says Shigan.
Doesn't care about who, it says Shigan, which means the Shigans from those who we know can use Shigan is superior to everything else there.
No, cause then this makes a loop.
Usopp scales below all of CP9.
Eminiteable
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Maybe separating Water 7 and Enies lobby keys for Usopp could be made, although I'm not sure anything but durability would change.
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This was my original plan
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About the giants scaling, chapter 118 luffy fights and harms an angry dorry, dunno if that helps the eastblue keys
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You sir are an absolute savior.
Also, wouldn't Enies Lobby Usopp's Durability scale to AP (once it is split from Water 7) or not?
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AP doesn't scale off of durability like that.
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His attacks mostly consist of his sniping. He actually rarely harms characters that can hurt him unless on specific occasions.
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Ok, fair.
Though people who can hurt Usopp would naturally scale to his durability even though its above his AP, right?
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Yup. In most instances it seems Usopp's durability is what scales to others' AP and not vice versa, though.
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