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One Piece Post-Timeskip Scaling and Calcs

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Stefano, let's say we went with all of Stone Golem Pica's attacks being 7-A, with subsequently Chinjao and Elizabello being 7-A.

Who else would you scale to that level? Do you have a complete list?
 
Pica (Golem Pica only), Chinjao, Elizabello, Bartolomeo (via Barriers at least), Sai (Post Awakening or at least with his Drill Dragon Nail), Diamante (Should be comparable), Lao G (he oneshotted Chinjao), Kyros (He defeated Diamante), Cavendish (as Hakuba as least) and possible/likely Nico Robin (she could restrain Cavendish/Hakuba).
 
Couple points;

Why Diamante? I notice you did not list Vergo and Trebol there. I don't recall anything stating that all of Doflamingo's Executive Officers have the same level as power.

Why Cavendish? The only one of those people that he directly fought was Chinjao before he got back some of his old strength (and even then it's not like Chinjao was going all-out on him).
 
Vergo already scale from stronger characters like Sanji.

For Trebol, i have no idea of how much he is strong compare to the others.

Diamante was capable to equally fight Kyros, who could cut Doflamingo's doppelganger head, which could fight off Base Luffy. I'm more than sure Diamante is comparable to Pica.

And this is why i have say only as Hakuba (since in that state he could speedblitz and oneshot everyone in the Colosseum during his match and Dellinger).
 
One problem being that we still need to figure out new ratings for Smoker, Sanji, base Luffy and Dellinger.

I'm in the middle of writing up a more detailed explanation and tier list at the moment (that I can't finish until I get home from work), but right now I can see Diamante being comparable to Pica but without his Stone Golems (actually, even then Pica should be slightly superior to Diamante due to having full-body Armament Haki).

For Hakuba, I see him being in the City level tier. Same for Dellinger, or perhaps lower.
 
@Stefano Robin also deflected Diamante's Vipera Glaive, intercepted his Death Enjambre with her Flower Umbrella, restrained Gladius, overpowered Sugar's monster toy soldiers, and also intercepted Trebol's attack in a little clash before Hajrudin interrupted things.
 
Sanji should be High 7-A (or at least 7-A if you really don't think Sea Hot Hell should scale Oven) for be comparable to Charlotte Oven, Smoker should be possible on the sale LV for harming Vergo (Who could match Sanji in their short fight).

Base Luffy could be likely/possible 7-A since he should be as strong as (if not stronger than) Nico Robin.
 
Even if I accept Oven being High 7-A and Sanji being High 7-A as a result of kicking him and sending him flying into a house, I don't think we can backwards scale all the way to Punk Hazard like that for Sanji, especially when that rating is a lot higher than any of the feats we've seen from him up to that point.

We already know that characters can go through jumps in power over the course of the series, even over short periods of time. So Sanji in the Punk Hazard Arc is most likely weaker than Sanji in the Whole Cake Island Arc.
 
Kindly leave this thread if you don't have anything to contribute other than complaining about "downplaying". It is not not helpful at all and weakens your arguments because all it makes it look like is that you're just after the highest ratings possible instead of the most accurate ratings.

> Whitebeard is stated to be able to destroy the world, he gets island level?

I think it should be very obvious why we don't accept Whitebeard as Planet level.

Obviously. I even stated that there shouldn't be 5B One Piece characters. I'm pointing out the potential bias that is present when evaluating verses and feats. What do we really have to go off of to suggest Cell can destroy a solar system? Simple logic dictates that if he accumulated enough power to destroy a solar system, the planet at least, should've been destroyed. If not from the gathering of energy, then by the collision of that said energy with an even greater energy. But because of the databooks, all of this gets ignored for DBZ. But with One Piece, people like you are arguing AGAINST the databooks that are by a far more consistent author. So forgive me for getting irritated. I'm not trying to derail the thread. But I'm pointing out the flaws. If One Piece should face this much scrutiny (planet size, abilities, databooks, etc.) so should other verses. The fact that not everyone believes in MHS+ Fairy Tail is proof enough.
 
Look guys, I saw a message on the thread stating that Zunisha should be Low 7B and I got irritated and posted a mini rant. I didn't actually expect to get so many responses (both in support and opposition). I was not and currently am not trying to derail the thread. Although I disagree with a lot of things that are being done (constant One Piece revisions that have Luffy going from Low 6B all the way down to 7A tier), I understand that this is the result of both indecisiveness and innaccurate calculations. However, I feel that if we do another revision, we need to stick to it. Too many battles will keep needing to be updated and/or removed because of this. Also, other verses need to go through the same or a similar process as well.
 
> Also, other verses need to go through the same or a similar process as well.

I do the same thing with all verses I am a fan of.

I have fought against several MHA upgrades because of bad scaling, and I oppose very sketchy Bleach calcs on the same basis of opposing some One Piece calcs.

So, these constants revisions of One Piece are by no means me singling out the series. I just want more accurate ratings.
 
@Damage I know it sounds like I'm only talking about you and One Piece, but I'm not. It happens a LOT on this site. From multiple people. I just think that it needs to be addressed. In fact, I agree that the justifications for a certain tier needs to be better defined. The profiles shouldn't all just read "via powerscaling" or "by scaling to (insert character name here)". It doesn't always work.
 
Fairy Tail is a whole another can of worms, let's not bring that up here. I agree with you to an extent but Damage doesn't necessarily downgrade everything. He did help out with upgrading the Logia Regenerationn and even accepted The Kizaru stuff.
 
Regarding Diamante's rating, this feat here is the best we've seen from him. And this same kind of sword-strike was the one that Kyros overpowered.

I know it's kind of verging on the AOE fallacy a bit here, but when you look at the huge difference between Pica creating the Flower Hill, and Diamante's sword-strikes only doing that much damage at the top of the hill, I find it questionable to scale him directly to Pica for any reason other than having the same rank in Doffy's crew.

Really, his feat is no more impressive than Gladius' attacks.
 
@Damage Although I agree that Diamante is weaker than Pica, I think we also need to take into account that he wasn't going all out whereas Pica seemed like he did go all out. It is questionable whether he should scale directly to Pica though, unless we can find something stating the executives are on the same level.
 
The thing I don't get about Diamante is that he hyped up Death Enjambre like it was his ultimate move when Half-Moon Glaive looks way more destructive by comparison.
 
It might just be a case of destruction being less then it realistically should

Like Piccolos Special Beam Cannon is stronger then his ki blasts but that destroyed a moon while the former only blew up part of a mountain
 
Damage3245 said:
(actually, even then Pica should be slightly superior to Diamante due to having full-body Armament Haki).
Click to expand...
This isn't true tho. Zoro hasn't full-body Armament and still stomped Pica. Having that quality of Armament doesn't make you invincible or massively superior to other characters if your Haki is still weaker than someone else. Zoro shown Armament in that very fight for the first time.

I agree with the matter regarding Sanji and his scaling to Oven applying only to Whole Cake and not back-scaling but I'll drop that matter until the series go on to a point that we can make a sure scaling to this part of the series.

@Swordguy Z

It was me who said the Low 7-B but I was going by a calc. Said calc isn't correct and only applies to human-shaped beings (people told me about this down below the very same comment so I suggest you to read more than the ratings to avoid getting angry).
 
Js250476 said:
It might just be a case of destruction being less then it realistically should

Like Piccolos Special Beam Cannon is stronger then his ki blasts but that destroyed a moon while the former only blew up part of a mountain
Click to expand...
The thing is that not all attacks rely on AOE (Area of Effect). Other attacks can focus on potency (concentrated attacks that do more damage to a particular point). It wasn't less realistic in Piccolo's case, it was just more condensed and concentrated to penetrate a character whose defensive capabilities outmatch the moon level ki blast.
 
@Sword yes I completely understand what you mean and agree with you just giving an example why that argument doesn't work

Like how DB characters have ki control several OP characters can control the AOE of there attacks to not cause damage ( Whitebeard is a good example)
 
@Calaca Dully noted. Also, I wasn't angry. I was more astonished and irritated than angry. And it wasn't the only reason that I became irritated. It was what initially caught my eye. I suggest you read my posts for clarification on what I mean.
 
@Dr.Fix Currently, we are discussing the Executives of the Donquixote Family and the likelihood of them all being on the same tier, given as to how their feats range from Diamante cutting apart a small area to Pica moving the entire Flower Hill.
 
Okay, let's look at the scaling chain like this.

Doflamingo's Black Knight could battle base Luffy.

Kyros is able to decapitate Doflamingo's Black Knight.

Diamante was able to fight evenly with Kyros before eventually being overpowered.

So if we figure out what base Luffy's rating is as of the Dressrosa Arc, then we can sort out the ratings for some other characters.

Now, IIRC base Luffy wasn't able to even hurt old Chinjao (though he could push him back) - so, if for example old Chinjao is City level then we have a rough estimate of base Luffy being City level too and we can extrapolate from there? Anyone agree with this scaling chain?
 
Well, from what we know about what Luffy can do Post-Timeskip (before the Doflamingo fight):

  • One-shot a Pacista [Gear 2]
  • Easily beat up Hody Jones [Base + Gear 2]
  • Finish off Hody Jones with one shot. [Gear 3]
  • Easily beat up Caeser Clown. [Base + Gear 2]
  • Finish off Caeser Clown with one shot. [Gear 3]
  • Punch Chinjao in the head and do no damage. [Base]
  • Knocks out Harjudin with one shot. [Base]
  • Takes out Don Sai with one shot. [Gear 2]
  • Fight Chinjao on even grounds. [Gear 2]
  • Finish off Chinjao with one shot. [Gear 3]
It's pretty clear that his base level even Pre-Timeskip is not very impressive, it is far below the level of his Gear 2 and Gear 3 attacks.

I don't think that his base (at least up to the Dressrosa Arc) being either City level or At least City level, is something we should rule out.
 
Yes I agree. So Chinjao and Sai are at least City level? (scaling from g2 luffy)
 
Ugarik said:
Yes I agree. So Chinjao and Sai are at least City level? (scaling from g2 luffy)
Click to expand...
Base Luffy is already on that level, but i don't think Sai should be scale since he was one shotted.
 
Well, this was Sai prior to awakening his family's fighting strength (IIRC), so that would explain why he got one-shot by G2 Luffy.

So, let's say (as a rough picture, we'll work out the specifics of course)

Characters who are City level:

  • Base Luffy, Elizabello, Bartolomeo, Doffy's Black Knight, Cavendish, Kyros, Diamante, Trebol (and most of the weaker Doflamingo Pirates).
Characters who are at least City level (as in, At least City level, or Mountain level):

  • Zoro (His calced finishing move on Pica was this strong), Vergo, Pica, Sanji, Smoker, Don Chinjao, Gear 2/3 Luffy, Trafalgar Law.
Characters who are At least Mountain level or Large Mountain level:

  • Doflamingo, Sabo, Burgess, Fujitora without meteors, Gear 4 Luffy, etc..
 
G2/3 Luffy fought on par with casual Fujitora who performed 96 megatons feat during the fight so mountain level probably makes more scence
 
Calaca Vs said:
I agree with the matter regarding Sanji and his scaling to Oven applying only to Whole Cake and not back-scaling but I'll drop that matter until the series go on to a point that we can make a sure scaling to this part of the series.
Click to expand...
Unless there are been massive jumps of power, i don't think we should excuse the possibility of back-scaling, i mean is unlikely that Nami and Usopp had suprassed Crocodile during Skypiea Arc so logically speaking their feats should be apply to Crocodile too.

Neither Zoro or Sanji had show to becoming a lot more stronger since the Time-Skip and currently only Luffy, Nami and Usopp have show some notable upgrades (Luffy during his fight with Katakuri, Usopp by awakening his Haki and Nami with her new Clima-Tact with Zeus), you could argue Sanji did as well with his Vinsmoke Suit but he didn't use it during the arc.

Yes, the Straw Hats do get stronger over reach arc but they're not Saiyans, so i don't think there should be a major difference in strength between Whole Cake Sanji and Punk Hazard Sanji.
 
There are major differences between East Blue Saga Luffy, and Skypiea Saga Luffy, and Enies Lobby Arc Luffy, etc. And nothing particularly special happened to Luffy aside from him developing his Gears off-screen.

The characters can get stronger, even just a couple arcs apart.
 
Yeah, I think this thread has gone on long enough. We need a new thread with a summary of the suggested changes so far, and which topics we have to cover.
 
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