One Piece Post-Timeskip Scaling and Calcs

[Stefano4444]

I think we already have enough to say they are not mountain level

I still disagree on Pica's lifting the Flowey Hill as merely Environmental Destruction since all Pica's attacks are based on the same ability used to performing the feat and that there had been similar feats that had be used to directly scaling AP/Dura like this one, and i'm not the only one both Calava and Rin agree as well.

 

[Damage3245]

I think I could accept Luffy's G4 being Large Mountain level in the Dressrosa Saga, but backwards scaling to get G3 and Red Hawk to be Large Mountain level as well doesn't seem reasonable IMO. None of their feats put them on that level.

Accepting it means characters like Hody Jones, old Chinjao and Caeser Clown are all Large Mountain level which seems contradictory.

I think to be safe we should approach it as Luffy's G2 and G3 being Mountain level for now and see where that leads.

 

[Damage3245]

I still disagree on Pica's lifting the Flowey Hill as merely Environmental Destruction since all Pica's attacks are based on the same ability used to performing the feat and that there had been similar feats that had be used to directly scaling AP/Dura like this one, and i'm not the only one both Calava and Rin agree as well.

Even if we say that Pica's attacks are up to Mountain level with his Stone Golems, that does not mean that his true body's fighting power / durability is that high, or that the other commanders in Doffy's crew should directly scale to it.

 

[The_Calaca]

I think I could accept Luffy's G4 being Large Mountain level in the Dressrosa Saga, but backwards scaling to get G3 and Red Hawk to be Large Mountain level as well doesn't seem reasonable IMO. None of their feats put them on that level.
Accepting it means characters like Hody Jones, old Chinjao and Caeser Clown are all Large Mountain level which seems contradictory.

I think to be safe we should approach it as Luffy's G2 and G3 being Mountain level for now and see where that leads.

Well the difference between the calcs is negligible so I can accept. But following that logic G3 should be near high end 7-A.

And if that's not the case then the gap between G3 and G4 is much larger than we thought.

 

[Stefano4444]

Even if we say that Pica's attacks are up to Mountain level with his Stone Golems, that does not mean that his true body's fighting power / durability is that high, or that the other commanders in Doffy's crew should directly scale to it.

And i agree that Human Pica's shouldn't directly scale to his Stone Golems, although he did survive Zoro's Daisen Seikai so at most he should scaled to other characters such as Bartolomeo and Sai.

Still even if you're in part correct, Chinjao and Elizabello's combined power was more than enough to fully match Golem Pica's attack and Zoro could easily tank most of his attacks as well, meaning there were characters enough power to even equally fight Golem Pica other than Zoro.

And to be frank, the series never potrayed Pica as be that much stronger than everybody from the Corrida Colosseum (beside Luffy or Zoro) and that none of them would had be able to defeat him.

Neither it was suggest to be the strongest member of Donquixote's crew (beside Doffy and Vergo), there is no reason to don't assume Diamante, Gladius and Lao G couldn't be comparable, even when using his Stone Golems.

And is not like he need to use his full strength for performing the feat , it clear that he didn't put any major efforts and this was while also alterating other parts of the country's landscape (like lifting the SMILE Factory).

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Hody's scaling from Dressrosa Luffy?

 

[The_Calaca]

Hody scaling from Dressrosa Luffy is like Wapol scaling from Skypiea Luffy. And that'd be only applies to extremely overdosed Hody not regular Hody.

 

[Ugarik]

I still disagree on Pica's lifting the Flowey Hill as merely Environmental Destruction since all Pica's attacks are based on the same ability used to performing the feat and that there had been similar feats that had be used to directly scaling AP/Dura like this one, and i'm not the only one both Calava and Rin agree as well.

Even if we say that Pica's attacks are up to Mountain level with his Stone Golems, that does not mean that his true body's fighting power / durability is that high, or that the other commanders in Doffy's crew should directly scale to it.
Didn't Pica say that he was superior to his golem after zoro destroyed it?

Edit: Yes, he did. Chaper 778 page 13

 

[Damage3245]

Didn't Pica say that he was superior to his golem after zoro destroyed it?

That Golem was wrecked by a City level attack, so that's not saying much even if he did think he was superior.

@Calaca:

> And to be frank, the series never potrayed Pica as be that much stronger than everybody from the Corrida Colosseum (beside Luffy or Zoro) and that none of them would had be able to defeat him.

Aside from when Pica was confident he could destroy all of the rampaging pirates and marines by himself?

 

[Stefano4444]

Aside from when Pica was confident he could destroy all of the rampaging pirates and marines by himself?

More like overconfident since Zoro was beat the crap out of him, unless you think Golem Pica was stronger than Fujitora?

 

[The_Calaca]

@Damage

Wasn't me who said that. I'm not arguing about Pica right now.

 

[Damage3245]

@Damage
Wasn't me who said that. I'm not arguing about Pica right now.

My bad, I didn't even read the name.

@Stefano, yes, he was obviously overconfident but it goes against your point that Pica was never portrayed as being one of the strongest (if not the strongest) of Doflamingo's crew given how nobody else was portrayed as thinking they had a chance of taking on everyone.

 

[Aerozz]

Hello guys I have something about how hard the ice continent that don chinjao split which is way harder than steel and let me know what you think.

first, luffy destroyed the pacifistas (which they are harder than a steel) with a single jet pastel with no haki, and in chapter 708 page 6 luffy did a jet pistol on old don chinjoa (you can see steam from luffy ) and he didn't feel anything. (and this dressrosa luffy not fishmen luffy) second, in chapter 719 page 14, prime chinjoa with no drill he barely scratched the ice continent, and he got bleed from his head because of it .

lastly, I don't think the people with don chinjao are normal people's strength because this is new world and they are part of his crew.

that's all I wanted to say let me see what you think about this thanks.

 

[Damage3245]

> lastly, I don't think the people with don chinjao are normal people's strength because this is new world and they are part of his crew.

Those people trying to break into the ice cave weren't on his crew.

 

[Stefano4444]

My bad, I didn't even read the name.

@Stefano, yes, he was obviously overconfident but it goes against your point that Pica was never portrayed as being one of the strongest (if not the strongest) of Doflamingo's crew given how nobody else was portrayed as thinking they had a chance of taking on everyone.

That doesn't mean no one aside for Luffy, Law, Zoro and etc. should be scaled from Golem Pica.

Don Chinjao and King Elizabello were still capable to counter Golem's Pica attack with relative ease, and by dividing for two they would still remain baseline 7-A while Pica would be closer to mid end 7-A (since his feat didn't take a lot of effort to perform).

This wouldn't be inconsistent with the scaling, Chinjao and Elizabello were one of the strongest allied Luffy had again Doflamingo, and Pica would still remain strongest than most characters during that arc.

 

[Aerozz]

> Those people trying to break into the ice cave weren't on his crew

well they call him head (which I believe its like captain) and they are wearing warriors clothes/weapons they shouldn't be a normal people.

this is new world and I don't think don chinjoa will go alone to take the treasure and he even had a ship with them and they are worry about him calling him head.

and by the way don chinjoa family are most of them are strong people coz they train (you remember in cover story that women who beat sai she shouldn't be a normal women)

 

[Damage3245]

I really don't believe that Pica's attack can rated as Mountain level based on a completely separate feat that wasn't an attack.

There's isn't any proof that his Stone Golems get much more durable than the stone they're made; that's just an assumption being made because we're arbitrarily saying that his Golems punches must be Mountain level.

Elizabello's King Punch has been calced to be City level, and a much weaker version of it (which has also been calced) was capable of breaking apart the arm of Pica's largest Golem. I find it a little odd that you're willing to completely ignore Elizabello's calc in favor of Pica's calc.

Also, we see Pica at no point during his rearrangement of the island; how can you concretely say that it didn't take a lot of effort?

EDIT Unless you have some evidence for 'All of Pica's attacks are 7-A', I don't think it's reasonable to use his calc for scaling Chinjao and Elizabello.

EDIT2: If it was a calc of the Stone Golem itself, it would be much more reasonable.

 

[Ugarik]

@Damage 3245

So what scaling do you suggest?

 

[Damage3245]

@Damage 3245
So what scaling do you suggest?

I'll draw up a detailed list to post tomorrow.

 

[Aerozz]

hmmm what about what I said on why the ice continent that don chinjoa split is way harder than a steel thanks.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

Wow. You guys are really trying to make an island sized elephant small city level. I'm done.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

Pica was massive, his finger alove contained multiple buildings. I'd say Zoro and Luffy are at least Large Mountain level, since Zoro can easily cut Pica with just his 1080 canon.

Anything higher is speculation, you can argue that Luffy is Large mountain level in base form since he handled Fujitora tiger. Though guys liek Whitebeard and Garp should be at least continental level (Should be above Sai foot who can shatter ice continents), and Mihawk + Shanks can shake the grand line with their duels. Plus whitebeard having the power to destroy the planet, i'd say Continental level Whitebeard and Garp is fine. Fujitora casually lifted all the rubble on a island, meaning his gravity has huge range.

Lol you must be new to this wiki. They would never accept that lol. At least from One Piece. They'd have to see it, argue about it for months, add it, get rid of it and downgrade it, and then upgrade it again. They'll keep the process going until it gets finalized by the higher ups (see Naruto for a reference). I'm sure One Piece will show feats later, but for now there is no point trying to argue here. No one will listen.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

Also, for all of the people in support of 6C Luffy... don't be surprised if Luffy gets downgraded all the way down to low 7B. Who knows? Maybe, he'll be brought to 7C and the Yonkos will be put at 7B. I can't even take any of this seriously anymore. Cell states that he can blow up a solar system and he gets solar system level. Whitebeard is stated to be able to destroy the world, he gets island level? You can argue with data books, but wait, you refuse to accept One Piece's data book yet accept DBZ's which is far more inconsistent and questionable. Same with Naruto. And Bleach. Even Fairy Tail. One Piece is way too downplayed here. I'm not saying that they should have 5B characters. But when there is a discussion about an island (maybe even country) sized elephant being placed at small city level after one shotting a Yonko commander, that is where I have to draw the line.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

First of all, Zoro's mountain cutting feat was done casually (heck, it was improvised because of Pica pretty much ditching the fight to go after weaker enemies. He even did it multiple times. That wasn't even his full power. Not to mention that Ashura would multiply said power by far. And he's weaker than Luffy. So you people believe he's city level?

Luffy split a city while greatly fatigued and while overpowering an enemy's ultimate attack (don't forget that his lesser strings cut through meteorites). And the best part? It wasn't even Luffy's direct punch that split the city. It was Doffy flying into the ground after being punched.

I swear, any attack that isn't based on AOE isn't taken seriously on this site.

I could go on but I want to give the people who want to downgrade the verse a moment to argue against me.

 

[The_Calaca]

But the lower result for Zunisha's feat was 7-A+ and it's almost baseline High 7-A.

I agree with you tho. I think the same strict criticism should be used to measure every verse here and not just One Piece. That's the correct way to deal with things. Objectively this is the correct way. Without feats we can't give characters a higher tier than they are even if we know they are massively stronger than that.

But why this happens? Because One Piece isn't a fighting series so the feats aren't insanely frequent and more often are downplayed a bit for several reasons (i.e. Chinjao's splitting feat is so low because we don't see the full size of the island and the full crack on the ice).

I suggest to hold on. The majority of feats will be recalced once the OP Earth gets a good map and with the long time the series will keep publishing this isn't the last word for One Piece.

 

[Aerozz]

ya I feel ya bro they really love to downplay one piece way too much and someone said "im a big one piece fan" in downplay to be honest.

ya now when I se this wiki I just laugh on how they love to downplay one piece that much XD but when it other animes nah they wont.

by the way Zonisha size is 20km in height its conformed in databook

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

@Calaca Vs One Piece not being a fighting series is the only thing I disagree with you with. Since East Blue, Luffy has literally gone from island to island fighting stronger and stronger guys (the only exceptions being Zou and Return to Saobody). If it wasn't a fighting series, feats wouldn't even be as crazy as they are now (Law's df allowing him to cut through a mountain, Doffy's birdcage, an island sized elephant attacking someone). I would argue that it's more about fighting than even Naruto and Bleach (think about it, who has fought the most opponents: Luffy, Naruto, or Ichigo?). Naruto didn't even shoot up in power until its final arc. But people here treat One Piece like every feat or statement doesn't matter. For example, Strawhats dodging and reacting to lightning during Skypeia is NEVER really talked about, even though it would be consistent with later feats (that are also never talked about or accepted). Another thing. Shiki was literally lifting multiple islands in the air and the Yonko are superior to him. But people want to bring them to just island level? And yes, I know that those feats were "non canon" but Oda himself helped work on the film and I think he'd know more than any of us what his characters are capable of.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

I agree with most of what Sword Guy Z said. But we do accept the One Piece Databook, also about the Chinjao calc. Why is the density of rock being used? The ice has been shown to be much harder than rock, it wasn't even fazed by Steel Pickaxes or Flamethrowers. That should be around the density of iron at the very least, although steel would be more accurate. In this case I actually think the OBD has the more accurate feat.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

ya I feel ya bro they really love to downplay one piece way too much and someone said "im a big one piece fan" in downplay to be honest.

ya now when I se this wiki I just laugh on how they love to downplay one piece that much XD but when it other animes nah they wont.

by the way Zonisha size is 20km in height its conformed in databook

Exactly. It's so disappointing. I can't believe how much people here easily accept calcs for other verses, but One Piece is so scrutinized and brought down. Even the data books aren't being taken seriously.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

I agree with most of what Sword Guy Z said. But we do accept the One Piece Databook, also about the Chinjao calc. Why is the density of rock being used? The ice has been shown to be much harder than rock, it wasn't even fazed by Steel Pickaxes or Flamethrowers. That should be around the density of iron at the very least, although steel would be more accurate. In this case I actually think the OBD has the more accurate feat.

Really? The databook is accepted? Then why is Kizaru still labeled as Massively Hypersonic instead of lightspeed. And everyone else is still Massively Hypersonic, despite some characters reacting to and fighting with him. Also, Akainu isn't noted to have the strongest offensive df power on his profile.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

@Sword Guy


That's because the profiles still need to be adjusted. They'll get thier previous Relativistic ratings back, maybe Relativistic + once we calculate Marco's feat.

 

[The_Calaca]

I'll kindly ask you to stop derailing this thread.

I invite you to come to my message wall to talk with me about this. I'll answer your questions and talk with you about this.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

@Rin We'll see, I guess. I'm hoping for it. But it might get downgraded AGAIN later. As Calaca stated, if One Piece has to face this much scrutiny and resistance, every other verse should be treated the exact same way. Otherwise, it just seems like a strong bias against One Piece.

 

[Damage3245]

ya I feel ya bro they really love to downplay one piece way too much and someone said "im a big one piece fan" in downplay to be honest.
ya now when I se this wiki I just laugh on how they love to downplay one piece that much XD but when it other animes nah they wont.

by the way Zonisha size is 20km in height its conformed in databook

Kindly leave this thread if you don't have anything to contribute other than complaining about "downplaying". It is not not helpful at all and weakens your arguments because all it makes it look like is that you're just after the highest ratings possible instead of the most accurate ratings.

> Whitebeard is stated to be able to destroy the world, he gets island level?

I think it should be very obvious why we don't accept Whitebeard as Planet level.

 

[Aerozz]

Kindly leave this thread if you don't have anything to contribute other than complaining about "downplaying". It is not not helpful at all and weakens your arguments because all it makes it look like is that you're just after the highest ratings possible instead of the most accurate ratings.

> Whitebeard is stated to be able to destroy the world, he gets island level?

I think it should be very obvious why we don't accept Whitebeard as Planet level.

well im not the only one who says that this site downplay one piece which is very true, so why you focus on me only?

this is my honest opinion unless you don't take opinions and you think that your always right, so please be on topic.

so guys what do you think about my points on why the ice continent that don chinjoa split is way harder than a steel.

 

[Damage3245]

I don't mean to single you out, I'd say the same to anyone that doesn't want to stick the topic of the thread and instead complains about how badly they think the series is treated.

Anyway, if you have a comment about the ice continent calc then you can leave it in the comments of the calc which is linked in the OP.

 

[Aerozz]

hey guys I did a post on (This is about why the ice continent that Don Chinjao split is way harder than a steel) I would love if you join me and clac it with me https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2358802 hope you like it

 

[Damage3245]

Well, not exactly what I had in mind but as long as the discussion of it is taken off of this thread, I'm fine.

 

[Stefano4444]

I really don't believe that Pica's attack can rated as Mountain level based on a completely separate feat that wasn't an attack.

There are so many characters (Esdeath, Aang, Ainz Ooal Gown and more) here which AP/Dura had been scaled from feats that aren't direct attacks, i don't see why Pica is somehow an outlier compare to them.

Elizabello's King Punch has been calced to be City level, and a much weaker version of it (which has also been calced) was capable of breaking apart the arm of Pica's largest Golem. I find it a little odd that you're willing to completely ignore Elizabello's calc in favor of Pica's calc.

And Luffy's King Kong Gun had been calculated to be Multi-City BLock level, but we still rank him at much higher tier.

Taking intro account just the Destructive Capacities of an attack/character and nothing else (context, previous feats, scaling, etc) would both be wrong other that it would be ignoring the entire matter about Attack Potency.

Yes, Elizabello's Lite King Punch's DC had been calc to be Large Town level+, but it must be take intro account the fact that his Lite King Punch (with the help of Chinjao) was also nullify Golem Pica's Strike at the same time, meaning Lite King Punch's AP would need to be higher.

Even that you suggested that the likes of Chinjao, Sai, Bartolomeo and Elizabello (without King Punch) should be rank at City level via powerscaling, doing so would rank Elizabello to a level well above than what the calc "prove", which is what you're saying i'm doing right now.

 

[Damage3245]

> Even that you suggested that the likes of Chinjao, Sai, Bartolomeo and Elizabello (without King Punch) should be rank at City level via powerscaling, doing so would rank Elizabello to a level well above than what the calc "prove", which is what you're saying i'm doing right now.

Actually I'm suggesting that Chinjao, Sai, Bartolomeo and Elizabello (with the King Punch) are ranked at City level.

Elizabello's AP without the King Punch would be just Large Town level+.

Actually, Chinjao's durability should probably be roughly Mountain level because he survived Luffy's Gear 3 attack (but no higher because he was still knocked unconscious in one hit)