One Piece Post-Timeskip Scaling and Calcs #7

[CinCameron20]

So we'll be using 424MT for Pica. (ME for arm feat, LE for Torso/Arm/Shoulder) - 7-A

Low End KE for Fujitora's lifting (653MT) - 7-A+

Luffy's Scaling would now look like: "At least Low 7-B+, likely higher in base, At least 7-A with Gear 2nd (Superior to Pica, comparable to Zoro, defeated the Black Knight - which scales to Law), 7-A+ With Gear 3rd (Comparable to Fujitora and could hurt him), High 7-A with Gear 4th (Noted by Doflamingo to have tripled his attack power over its previous limit)

This good?

 

[Damage3245]

I'd personally prefer the P.E. calc for that feat but if we do go with the Low End K.E. then that scaling looks fine.

 

[Dr.Fix]

The scaling looks good.

 

[PlumCrayfish376]

I'm fine with the scaling, though I would have love to use ME for Pica's torso regen..

I believe we're supposed to add the results for both the Ferocious Tiger and the Fujitora lifting feat together, equalling a result of 759.561415 Megatons.

 

[Damage3245]

@PlumCrayfish; you'd have to be adding the P.E. version of the calc with the Ferocious Tiger since all of the rocks are already in the air when he does the latter feat.

 

[PlumCrayfish376]

I see, very well, we leave it as it is with 653 Megatons, unless we create a KE calc for that feat

 

[CinCameron20]

I don't think there can be a method for using KE for Ferocious Tiger--like at all. Only Violent Fragmentation since he basically causes it to crumble to shards (and send any remaining boulder flying)

• And like Damage mentioned, just keeping the rubble in the air is PE. But lifting it upwards is valid for KE.

We could also try to make a KE version of King Kong Gun again with the new scaling. Ignoring the rotation because I seriously can not figure it out. Would only scale to Luffy's strongest attack and nothing else (unless someone in a later chapter blocks it like nothing). But we'd have to give it an "At least" for whatever rating since the rubble being sent upwards was a result from Doflamingo's body hitting the island, and also cuz KKG was mitigated partially by Doflamingo's God thread and Spider Thread at least by some amount.

• I found a better image for scaling the feat, so I'll work on it later.

Anyways, Luffy's scaling would further support Doflamingo being "At least 7-A+ (One-shot and incapacitated Luffy on two occasions, and both Gear 2nd and 3rd being ineffective against him for dealing damage, and still dominated Gear 2nd/3rd Luffy while in a severely weakened condition, also stomped Sanji and Smoker, and tanked a casual freeze from Kuzan - All of these things scaling between 424 and 800+MT depending where you look), likely High 7-A (Weaker than Bound Man, but put up a strong resistance against him despite being in a weakened condition.) and High 7-A with Awakening (Scaling to Bound Man as it held him at bay for over 20 minutes and should logically be above Doflamingo's standard attacks, if only a little)".

 

[Damage3245]

'Putting up a strong resistance to Boundman', in what way exactly? From what I remember his only regular attack he was able to use was the kick that bounced off Luffy?

 

[CinCameron20]

He kept getting up from his attacks, and was still fighting back, and still could after Culverin. The attack that bounced off, I already explained twice why it wasn't effective, and it's not because Doflamingo is significantly weaker than Luffy. Gomu Gomu + Haki = Kick wont work. (Unless Doflamingo is > Gear 4th Luffy in AP, which we all know is not the case)

When they previously fought, Doflamingo's kicks could hurt Luffy Despite the Gomu Gomu no Mi resisting blunt damage. And with Haki, Luffy could not rely on his rubbery stature to defend against Doflamingo's hits, and his defenses were constantly overpowered. With Bound Man, he somehow retained both Haki and Elasticity to bound the attack off. If not for one or the other, I'm pretty certain the kick from Doflamingo would have inflicted some damage--even while weakened.

 

[Damage3245]

My point is that while Doffy's kicks could harm base Luffy and while Gear 4 Luffy was assisted by his Resistance to Blunt Damage, we still don't actually have a feat of Doffy harming Gear 4 Luffy.

Just being able to get up from his attacks isn't justification for his AP.

I think it'd be better to put Doffy's base AP as At least 7-A+

 

[CinCameron20]

Gear 4th Luffy via scaling would be around 1.5GT, so it would be strange for Doflamingo (at 100%) to be <1GT when he stomped his previous gears (>424 to 653MT), and could still fight back while being weakened. He'd basically be "At least 653MT, likely (at most) 1.5GT"

 

[Damage3245]

He could 'fight back' but he clearly wasn't doing anything in base. I'd be fine saying he is Likely High 7-A or just High 7-A when he us using Awakening which is clearly well above his ordinary attacks.

But I don't think any of Doffy's base feats show him being comparable to Gear 4 Luffy in power.

 

[Dr.Fix]

likely high 7-A with Awakening seems appropiate.

 

[PlumCrayfish376]

I feel like Doffy's stats would be:-

AP: At least 7-A with Black Knight (>424MT), At least 7-A+ (>>653MT or 763MT), likely High 7-A (Below G4 Luffy's AP) himself, higher with Awakening

Durability: Likely High 7-A

Black Knight scales to wherever Gear 2nd Luffy and Law is, Doffy is either >>653MT or 763MT. I also support Doffy himself being a Likely High 7-A himself and in durability due to being able to withstood and get up from many of G4 Luffy attacks and trade blows with him, though he was very much injured from the attacks at him, though that to be expected given the state he was in before entering the field with G4.

Although he's shown to be weaker than Bound Man Luffy, he was still capable of trading blows with him—only incapable of harming Luffy only because of Luffy's Bound Man utilizing Haki in a way that allowed him to retain his rubbery stature, thus mitigating the impact of his physical strikes. Also we got to remember Doffy was very much severely harmed and injured and was still in the state of recovery when against Luffy, and let's not forget Luffy's unique melding of Haki and his Blunt Force Resistance, if not for one or the other, Doffy would have inflict some harm, like Cin said.

And Awakening is stronger than Doffy's normal attacks, able to parry away some of G4 Luffy attacks.

 

[Damage3245]

@PlumCrayfish; trading blows with someone is not enough to be able to say that you're on par with them. You have to actually hurt them with your attacks.

While we can speculate that maybe Doffy could have hurt Luffy in a certain way, I don't think there is enough evidence to guarantee he could do it even without his injuries.

If we changed this to:

AP: At least 7-A with Black Knight (>424MT), At least 7-A+ (At least 653MT), likely High 7-A with Awakening

Then it looks a lot better.

 

[PlumCrayfish376]

@Damage3245 I think more on that but besides that, what the status of the Ice Age for Aokiji; did Ugarik version get accepted?

 

[Damage3245]

I don't think Ugarik's put his version up for evaluation. So that's still in limbo as far as I'm aware.

I'll try asking calc group member for their thoughts.

 

[Ercosore]

I agree with damage regarding Doffys stats.

 

[RexofLM]

For what its worth i agree with Doffy and luffy scaling. Sidenote When we start looking at feats for commander's is slamming luffy through the mirror world gonna give us anything decent?

 

[KobsterHope07]

For what its worth i agree with Doffy and luffy scaling. Sidenote
When we start looking at feats for commander's is slamming luffy through the mirror world gonna give us anything decent?

Which chapter that was?

 

[CinCameron20]

Katakuri slamming Snake-Man Luffy on the ground will be Town level. Next.

 

[CinCameron20]

Also, if Doflamingo is going to be 7-A+ since he could not really hurt Luffy from what we've seen, the same will have to apply to Katakuri and Cracker. Katakuri resorted to Awakening to deal damage to Bound Man Luffy, and Snake-Man is not proven to be comparable to Bound Man in AP. Cracker had a free shot with a haki-infused sword swing, and he barely cut into Luffy's arm--and slashing attacks are Luffy's weakness. And he never took a hit until the end of the fight, where he ended up being taken out by one blow.

So, biscuit soldiers = 7-A+ (Above Gear 3rd Luffy), Cracker himself = At least 7-A+.

Katakuri At least 7-A+ (Stronger than Gear 3rd Luffy and is stated to be the strongest commander, making him superior to Cracker. Also matched Snake-Man Luffy, which should be stronger than his Gear 2nd and 3rd attacks), High 7-A with Awakening and Muso Donuts (Matched Bound Man Luffy long enough for his transformation to wear off)

Also, Gear 3rd Luffy "matching" Katakuri in one punch w/ Muso Donuts is either a fluke or an outlier. It should not scale to Luffy.

 

[Damage3245]

I could see Cracker and Katakuri being At least 7-A+ as well. As you said, Katakuri needed Awakening in order to seriously hurt Gear 4 Luffy (and while he was consistently overpowering Luffy before he wasn't stomping him), and Cracker even with a direct piercing thrust to Tankman Luffy wasn't able to penetrate his skin.

 

[PlumCrayfish376]

But Snakeman is a G4 Luffy transformation, it should be comparable to his Boundman transformation, even if slightly weaker but much faster in return, which is High 7-A at the moment

Thus Katakuri should be High 7-A (able to match Snakeman Luffy), likely 6-C (as a Yonkou Commander, should be comparable to Jack who tanked Zunisha's trunk swing), higher with Awakening.

Can't really say much about Cracky and Smoothie atm

 

[Xulrev]

Snakeman should have greater AP since it explicitly is higher acceleration, beyond the limit of even Katakuri's precog, thus should pretty well scale.

 

[Damage3245]

@PlumCrayfish; the likely 6-C stuff regarding Jack is still up for debate.

 

[PlumCrayfish376]

@PlumCrayfish; the likely 6-C stuff regarding Jack is still up for debate.

I see that okay, that as well as the Ace's heat feat is definetely up for discussion, that will be done much later. I just wanted to prove that Katakuri should be at High 7-A. Don't know much about Cracker and Smoothie but since they are Yonkou Commanders, they could scale to the High 7-A status.

I mean, even if it was a surprise attack, Cracker was able to harm G4 Boundman Luffy unlike Doffy who couldn't even pierce the rubbery boi, much less draw blood from him. Tankman Luffy most likely have the most defense out of the Trio of G4, given Boundman ridiculous attack power and Snakeman speed and Cracker mistakenly targeted his abdomen area where most of the Haki was concentrated so that mostly likely lead to what happen with poor Cracker.

 

[Elizhaa]

There is already 389 messages already so from the Advice to the staff of the VS Battles wiki, a new CRT should be made:

• Post new official request threads when the old ones are starting to get full (around 400 messages), by copying the text sections of the original posts in the previous threads.

 

[PlumCrayfish376]

Snakeman should have greater AP since it explicitly is higher acceleration, beyond the limit of even Katakuri's precog, thus should pretty well scale.

While I believe that to be true, base Snakeman Luffy would be lower than Boundman Luffy in attack power. If Snakeman was to keep accelerating his arms at high speed and streching, then he could reach Boundman's power, even surpass it, probably....maybe

 

[PlumCrayfish376]

Also, another topic to discuss is the CP9 and Doriki thing that Cin brought up. This would bring the Zoo Monster Trio (Kaku, Jabra and Lucci) to High 7-C status in their base, being much higher with their Zoan transformation. The Monster Trio from the SH would scales from them.

Since Kalifa is the weakest and we have no evidence to presume she is much stronger than Skypeia Robin or weaker, she would be likely to be around the 65.349 KT benchmark. Thus, going accordingly to the Doriki chart this would mean that: Fukuro is 83KT, Kumadori is 84KT, Blueno is 85KT, Jabra is 226KT, Kaku is 228KT while Lucci is 415KT.

And since Asura is triple that of Zoro's base power, we would get 684KT for it, thus the other Monster Trio's powerup scales to it as well as the Zoo Monster Trio's Zoan form.

 

[Damage3245]

@Elizahaa; thank you. I'll create a new version of the thread soon.

 

[Ercosore]

Crackernot only cut G4 Luffy his biscuits were able to take his attacks. Imo he scales.

Edit: Regarding Luffy´s weakness to slashing attacks. Doffy´s strings were not able to cut him in G4, so it should not be a factor regarding Cracker.

 

[CinCameron20]

The 7-A to High 7-A discussion is only regarding the scaling from Pica and Fujitora's feats. Any other feat (Like Bird-cage, Jack taking a hit from Zunisha, and other comparable feats) would need to be re-evaluated before being discussed.

@Ercosore - No, The biscuit soldiers had their shields shatter from his attacks and were later destroyed. Cracker continuously created biscuit soldiers to stall Luffy until his G4 wore out, but the fight remained off-panel until we saw Nami supporting Luffy. We even see biscuits shattering and flying back when Cracker tells them to "Advance" before leaping in with a lunging attack.

• And again, Cracker cutting Luffy occurred w/ Haki, and slashing attacks bypass Luffy's elasticity, and he still barely cut into his arm with a two-armed swing.
  • Funny thing regarding Doflamingo using Athlito is that when he threw the kick, we clearly see the strings, but in the next panel, they are gone, and also, Doflamingo's foot makes contact before the threads each time we see the ability--the threads are an after affect for cutting, but show me where they even touched Luffy in G4. They don't. Doflamingo's foot bounces off upon contact.

 

[CinCameron20]

And since Asura is triple that of Zoro's base power, we would get 684KT for it, thus the other Monster Trio's powerup scales to it as well as the Zoo Monster Trio's Zoan form.

Uh, no. Jabra was 2-shot by Diable Jambe. Kaku was 1-shot by Asura, and Lucci could not withstand a Gigante Pistol even w/ Tekkai.

In terms of AP, Gear 3rd > Lucci in Zoan form for Dura. Asura >> Kaku. Diable >> Jabra.

 

[CinCameron20]

But Snakeman is a G4 Luffy transformation, it should be comparable to his Boundman transformation, even if slightly weaker but much faster in return, which is High 7-A at the moment

That logic makes no sense. Sure above Gear 3rd Luffy merely because he ultimately defeated Katakuri with it, but the strikes had no where near as much impact as Bound Man, and it is explicitly stated to be speed-based out of all his Gear 4th Variants. Bound Man outright bursted through Karakuri's Busoshoku defense, while Snake-man merely matched him blow for blow, and was visibly harmed when colliding fists with Katakuri.

Not to mention Katakuri more easily harmed Luffy with his attacks in that form. He had not even used his awakening during the climax of their fight.

 

[The_Calaca]

I agree with Damage's rating. Doffy's Durability scales to G4 but that doesn't necessarily mean his AP does as well.

Once we get these changes applied we should get into the YC tiers, not before.

 

[Damage3245]

So a quick summary of the most important characters:

Luffy (Dressrosa): At least Low 7-B+ in base, 7-A with Gear 2, 7-A+ with Gear 3, High 7-A with Gear 4

Doflamingo: At least 7-A with Black Knight, At least 7-A+ himself, likely High 7-A with Awakening

Fujitora: At least 7-A+ himself, 6-C with meteors

Law: At least 7-A

 

[Dr.Fix]

^looks good.

 

[Ercosore]

Those seem fine.

@CinCameron20 I will conceed with the biscuits parts, however I still have to disagree with the rest.

Regarding Cracker, he still hurt him, he made him bleed, granted it wasn´t much but its still something.

Regarding Doffy, no offence but I think you are reaching with this one, here you can see where the strings come from, and here you can see that the same place the strings come from manage to hit Luffy. It would literraly made no sence for those string to not have made contact with Lufy.

 

[Stefano4444]

Fujitora: At least 7-A+ himself, 6-C with meteors

I think that at minimum a "likely higher" or a "likely far higher" should be added.

There is no indication of Fujitora using his full strength again Luffy, and having him below Doflamingo with Awakening doesn't make sense when he should be at very least as strong as him.

And that beside the fact that i still find hard to believe that he would be below Kizaru and the likes of Marco or Katakuri despire him having the rank of Admiral.