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Urouge is the guy who punched a Pacifista pre Timeskip. Using him as an anti feat assuming he's weak is wrong. Actually that tell us that he's strong enough to face a YC.
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One Piece Post-Timeskip Scaling and Calcs #5
- Thread starter Damage3245
- Start date
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So i think the most correct powerscale for High Tiers and Top Tiers should be:
Whitebeard, Shanks, Kaido, Big Mom, Blackbeard, Mihawk, Garp, Akainu, Kizaru, Aokiji, Sengoku = 6-C
Katakuri, Cracker, Smoothie, King, Queen, Jack, Gear (4th Luffy), Ace, Marco, Jozu, Vista, Fujitora = Likely 6-C
That's more or less what the consensus already is; other than likley 6-C should be at lest high 7-A
Where we're stuck is @Damage holds MF characters unrealistically high and wants to dismiss 99% feats (That's not even an exaggreration, that's the actual number).
@Cin Meanwhile only agrees partially with Damage's long list of scaling. They want to add a bunch of Dur negation and Neg-Durability-Negation and Negate-Negate-Durability negation.
Honestly this would all be a lot easier if we counted Birdcage as Base Duffy's power, accepted Fugi's meteors as AP, Accepted the Gear four multiplier, and found that feat of Luffy burning through Duffy's basic strings in gear 3rd.
Whitebeard, Shanks, Kaido, Big Mom, Blackbeard, Mihawk, Garp, Akainu, Kizaru, Aokiji, Sengoku = 6-C
Katakuri, Cracker, Smoothie, King, Queen, Jack, Gear (4th Luffy), Ace, Marco, Jozu, Vista, Fujitora = Likely 6-C
That's more or less what the consensus already is; other than likley 6-C should be at lest high 7-A
Where we're stuck is @Damage holds MF characters unrealistically high and wants to dismiss 99% feats (That's not even an exaggreration, that's the actual number).
@Cin Meanwhile only agrees partially with Damage's long list of scaling. They want to add a bunch of Dur negation and Neg-Durability-Negation and Negate-Negate-Durability negation.
Honestly this would all be a lot easier if we counted Birdcage as Base Duffy's power, accepted Fugi's meteors as AP, Accepted the Gear four multiplier, and found that feat of Luffy burning through Duffy's basic strings in gear 3rd.
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- Thread starter
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@Dr. Fix; why do you keep saying I'm holding MF characters to a ridiculous standard? When the hell have I ever said anything overwhelmingly positive about them?
I don't care if you want to rate all the Whitebeard Commanders as At least High 7-A or even lower. Stop pretending I'm some massive fanboy.
And goddam it, when will you learn the difference between Durability and Attack Potency?
I don't care if you want to rate all the Whitebeard Commanders as At least High 7-A or even lower. Stop pretending I'm some massive fanboy.
And goddam it, when will you learn the difference between Durability and Attack Potency?
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- #127
I'm not rating them as being comparable to Kaido.
Having a scaling chain does not mean:
A = B = C = D.
It can mean A >> B >>>> C > D,
And characters can sometimes exist within the same tier without being close in power.
I have already said I'm perfectly happy to rate all the Commanders as At least High 7-A (with a higher for Jozu's durability for obvious reasons). Isn't that good enough?
EDIT: If I seem at all agitated or angry, then consider that this has been going on for at least five threads and we are so close to the end of these discussions and I am so looking forward to that. Which isn't helped when occasionally people bog down the threads with tangents or insults.
Having a scaling chain does not mean:
A = B = C = D.
It can mean A >> B >>>> C > D,
And characters can sometimes exist within the same tier without being close in power.
I have already said I'm perfectly happy to rate all the Commanders as At least High 7-A (with a higher for Jozu's durability for obvious reasons). Isn't that good enough?
EDIT: If I seem at all agitated or angry, then consider that this has been going on for at least five threads and we are so close to the end of these discussions and I am so looking forward to that. Which isn't helped when occasionally people bog down the threads with tangents or insults.
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Fix, don't you try and claim my sitting on this matter. The only flat 6-Cs should be the Yonko and Garp + Mihawk (both with Likely).
Admirals (Original 3), Sengoku, Blackbeard (Let's face it, other than scarring Shanks and fighting a dying WB, he lacks any definitive feats) and those who scale here are At least High 7-A, Likely 6-C.
Commanders (Speaking top 3 here for each Yonko [with FEW exception like Snack] as the rest aint nearly as impressive), Gear 4th Luffy, Doflamingo, Fuji + Ryokugyo get At least High 7-A. (As well as the rest who scale here cus fk putting all these names)
Luffy Base-3rdgear, Law, etc get High 7-A.
Commanders individually, AT BEST, stopped an attack from an Admiral with great effort. But all of them (Ace, Jozu, Marco, Vista) have been overpowered by them. Hell, Akainu was soloing all of the WB commanders while he was somewhat injured, and it was implied he was gradually winning.
Same goes for the Admirals against WB. At best, they could withstand a single attack before falling back, and Akainu only got a decisive hit in when WB suffered from his heart attack, most certainly unable to use Haki to defend himself. Even then, WB schooled him with that injury and half of his head missing.
Admirals (Original 3), Sengoku, Blackbeard (Let's face it, other than scarring Shanks and fighting a dying WB, he lacks any definitive feats) and those who scale here are At least High 7-A, Likely 6-C.
Commanders (Speaking top 3 here for each Yonko [with FEW exception like Snack] as the rest aint nearly as impressive), Gear 4th Luffy, Doflamingo, Fuji + Ryokugyo get At least High 7-A. (As well as the rest who scale here cus fk putting all these names)
Luffy Base-3rdgear, Law, etc get High 7-A.
Commanders individually, AT BEST, stopped an attack from an Admiral with great effort. But all of them (Ace, Jozu, Marco, Vista) have been overpowered by them. Hell, Akainu was soloing all of the WB commanders while he was somewhat injured, and it was implied he was gradually winning.
Same goes for the Admirals against WB. At best, they could withstand a single attack before falling back, and Akainu only got a decisive hit in when WB suffered from his heart attack, most certainly unable to use Haki to defend himself. Even then, WB schooled him with that injury and half of his head missing.
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- #129
Awesome Cin. I pretty much agree with your scaling.
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And what of Jack's Zou feat? I don't think we finished that.
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@Damage you literaly just said this an hour ago:
The ones that are Likely 6-C on top of that should be the ones shown to be capable of harming either an Admiral or a Yonkou.
I figured you meant the WB commanders. I can't see intop the future to read you'll put them as At least High 7-A.
Your original tiering was Zuu=Kaido=prime WB=Old WB+Akainu=Admirals=WB commanders, all before the Zuu clac so we were dealign with borderline 6-C Kiado getting a ton of rivals.
I know this has been a long journey so I would think you of all people woudl want it seen through done right till the end.
Cin that is pretty much what I already thought. I don't know why you're getting mad for agreeing with you.
In any case maybe we should all take some time to back up and cool off.
The ones that are Likely 6-C on top of that should be the ones shown to be capable of harming either an Admiral or a Yonkou.
I figured you meant the WB commanders. I can't see intop the future to read you'll put them as At least High 7-A.
Your original tiering was Zuu=Kaido=prime WB=Old WB+Akainu=Admirals=WB commanders, all before the Zuu clac so we were dealign with borderline 6-C Kiado getting a ton of rivals.
I know this has been a long journey so I would think you of all people woudl want it seen through done right till the end.
Cin that is pretty much what I already thought. I don't know why you're getting mad for agreeing with you.
In any case maybe we should all take some time to back up and cool off.
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@Rin; we did last thread. Jack is currently rated as At least High 7-A, Possibly 6-C, for it.
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Damage3245 said:
Then shouldn't that scale to the rest of the top tier Yonko Commanders?
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@Rin; as soon as they get feats of fighting Jack, it would. For the moment, I don't think we can scale them directly.
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@Ercosore - I already went through why they don't scale to 6-C fully.
@Rin - I don't even think Jack should scale if he was one-shot, and we don't know how long he was unconscious (if he was). but each Commander would scale to this if Jack (the weakest of the 3) scales to this.
@Rin - I don't even think Jack should scale if he was one-shot, and we don't know how long he was unconscious (if he was). but each Commander would scale to this if Jack (the weakest of the 3) scales to this.
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Damage3245 said:
That doesn't make any sense, you cannot argue that Jack is stronger than the other top tier Yonko Commanders.
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I mean, lower than Luffy's stamina ofc. Luffy won the endurance battle.
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We presently don't have anything relating Jack to any of the other Yonkou Commanders.Rin The Dragon Empress said:
Given that we're in the Wano Arc, something should come up that would give us a better idea.
Alternatively we could just remove his Possibly 6-C and leave him as At least High 7-A for now.
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>Katakuri's endurance
What has that to do with these threads?
>Jack
Jack' s AP scales to his Durability thanks to Ashura Doji.
What has that to do with these threads?
>Jack
Jack' s AP scales to his Durability thanks to Ashura Doji.
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I see no problem with his stamina's description. It's not suggesting nothing beyond his limits so I don't think adding a "inferior to Luffy's" is necessary at all.
Stefano4444
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Kaido scale from Zunisha's walk with its at least 27.9 Gigatons, that its literally 6 times higher than Zunisha's trunk which is 4.65 Gigatons.
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Jack would scale to 4.65GT while Kaido scales above 27.9Gt (and I think someone should scale something more offensive than a footstep like Zunisha's rush). I don't see any problem with scaling Jack to Possibly 6-C even if Kaido is 6-C.
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Ah, if there is a 6-C feat involved that's base-line that scales to Jack, then I can see the Commander tier (including G4 Luffy, Kata, Doflamingo, etc.) having a Likely 6-C for their tier.
People say no commander can scale to Jack, but I highly doubt that the WEAKEST of Kaido's Calamity is stronger than someone like Katakuri, Marco, or Benn Beckman (tho the latter has no support). It would make little sense by a lore standpoint, since this would imply Kaido would destroy each Yonko army time and time again (inb4 someone says "King one-shot Big Mom and Smoothie lul").
So here's what I'd scale the tiers now-
Top tier: Yonko, Garp, Mihawk (Scaling to Zunisha and the other massive creatures in the world) = 6-C (27.9GT)
High Tier: Admirals (Original) and the others who scale here (Scaling from being stronger than the Commanders, but inferior to the Yonko by some degree as discussed) = Likely 6-C (Likely >4.65GT but <<<27.9GT)
Upper-Mid Tier: Commanders, G4 Luffy, Doflamingo, Fuji, etc. (Scaling to/above High 7-A feats, and to Jack, who has a feat of withstanding a 4.65GT attack with minor injuries) = At least High 7-A, likely 6-C
Mid-Tier: Law, Base/3rdGear Luffy, and so on = High 7-A
People say no commander can scale to Jack, but I highly doubt that the WEAKEST of Kaido's Calamity is stronger than someone like Katakuri, Marco, or Benn Beckman (tho the latter has no support). It would make little sense by a lore standpoint, since this would imply Kaido would destroy each Yonko army time and time again (inb4 someone says "King one-shot Big Mom and Smoothie lul").
So here's what I'd scale the tiers now-
Top tier: Yonko, Garp, Mihawk (Scaling to Zunisha and the other massive creatures in the world) = 6-C (27.9GT)
High Tier: Admirals (Original) and the others who scale here (Scaling from being stronger than the Commanders, but inferior to the Yonko by some degree as discussed) = Likely 6-C (Likely >4.65GT but <<<27.9GT)
Upper-Mid Tier: Commanders, G4 Luffy, Doflamingo, Fuji, etc. (Scaling to/above High 7-A feats, and to Jack, who has a feat of withstanding a 4.65GT attack with minor injuries) = At least High 7-A, likely 6-C
Mid-Tier: Law, Base/3rdGear Luffy, and so on = High 7-A
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(Also, side-note, Sanji now has new abilities and such from latest chapter. Too bad he's bound to receive another L to add to his streak, FOR SURE)
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Thank god, if nobody has any problems with the proposed scaling we can get on and start adding the changes in.
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@Damage if you need some help let me know.
@Cin I'll add it to my sandbox after the breakfast.
@Cin I'll add it to my sandbox after the breakfast.
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I'll start the edits of a couple of profiles right now.
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I'll start the edits of a couple of profiles right now.
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