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One Piece Post-Timeskip Scaling and Calcs #5

@Dr. Fix; I've explained so many times why the Birdcage does not scale to his AP.

The calc for the Birdcage isn't even the Birdcage's AP; it's for the Birdcage's durability.

PlumCrayfish376 said:
I just have one question; can someone tell me why Birdcage is separated from Doflamingo's usual AP. He summoned all of those threads that enrapture the entirety of Dressrosa with no preparation from what is implied, and with no wasted energy. Hell, he made a minature version of one during a flashblack arc quite easily. I just find it wierd that the Birdcage is not included to Doflamingo's normal AP and such as much stronger than Doflamingo with his awakening. I'm sorry if this was probably discussed heavily before but I don't understand.
Click to expand...
The calc is for the Birdcage's durability, not the Birdcage's AP.
 
Well, Doffy can still produce strings on that level tho. But I digress.

Treating the Commanders, at least the most notable ones, as comparable isn't a stretch. The same goes for the OG admirals who were shown really comparable (see Sakazuki vs Kuzan).

Sorry to sound rude, but at this point we're going to scale Doffy to baseline 7-A just because he didn't destroyed Dressrosa.
 
Well, it seems pretty clear to me that Doffy's AP isn't High 7-A+ based on the durability of the Birdcage.

And Doffy being At least 7-A wouldn't be unreasonable in the grand scheme of things.
 
You usually forget about Newton Third Law. Doffy can produce strings that strong with no effort. It isn't something outside his own ballpark because he isn't using some kind of amplifier nor weapon like Crocodile'd do if he gets Pluton.

It's like a character who can generate a mini-sun with 7-B power. He's 7-B for the sake of creating it.
 
At 7-A, Doffy, Gear Fourth and Yonko Commander sounds like a massive low ball to me. Honestly a lot of the issues is that whenever we see feats that are impressive we tend to write them of by saying it doesn't scale. Fujitora's meteorites, The King Punch, Pica's Stone Manipulation and Doffy's Birdcage. ( To which were all accepted to scale in the previous thread and nobody ever bothered making a CRT to not scale them. ) It's pretty annoying actually and now we're actually ignoring blatant Power Scaling? The Calamities aren't the strongest Yonko Crew and there's nothing to suggest that they are. Otherwise Kaido wouldn't be scared to get into a war with another Yonko. We can't just write scaling off because the two never fought, whenever that's literally what power scaling is meant for.
 
PlumCrayfish376 said:
I just have one question; can someone tell me why Birdcage is separated from Doflamingo's usual AP. He summoned all of those threads that enrapture the entirety of Dressrosa with no preparation from what is implied, and with no wasted energy. Hell, he made a minature version of one during a flashblack arc quite easily. I just find it wierd that the Birdcage is not included to Doflamingo's normal AP and such as much stronger than Doflamingo with his awakening. I'm sorry if this was probably discussed heavily before but I don't understand.
Click to expand...
Mostly because the Bridcage's feat is a Durability feat coming from a non offensive technique that it doesn't seen to scale to most of his standard attacks, althought i would still argue that the Awakening should still logically scale in both Durability and AP.

Not only Doffy seen to utilize a far greater number of strings for form his attacks (columns made of thousands of strings >>> hundreds of separated strings) making those attacks much harded to destroy, but also his Awakening Attacks were the only things capable to hold off Luffy Gear 4th.

The same Gear 4th Luffy who was able to push out one Awakening's column with a headbutt, putting his AP to a level comparable to the Awakening's Durability even without the King Kong Gun, which in turn would mean Doffy's Awakening must be just as strong.

And that would be consistent with Jack's feat of surviving Zunisha's casual trunk swing (a baseline 6-C) without major repercussions, as it would showcase that High Tiers of the verse (from Doflamingo to Katakuri) are on that level of power.
 
Calaca Vs said:
You usually forget about Newton Third Law. Doffy can produce strings that strong with no effort. It isn't something outside his own ballpark because he isn't using some kind of amplifier nor weapon like Crocodile'd do if he gets Pluton.
It's like a character who can generate a mini-sun with 7-B power. He's 7-B for the sake of creating it.
Click to expand...
The Birdcage does not have High 7-A+ AP to it, it's just that durable.

It doesn't mean that Doffy's AP or durability scales directly to it.

> Honestly a lot of the issues is that whenever we see feats that are impressive we tend to write them of by saying it doesn't scale. Fujitora's meteorites, The King Punch, Pica's Stone Manipulation and Doffy's Birdcage.

There is no issue with the scaling for the King Punch as far as I'm aware?

> We can't just write scaling off because the two never fought, whenever that's literally what power scaling is meant for.

Powerscaling does not mean total guesswork though. It means we have to go by the feats & reliable statements to make accurate judgements.

If Marco punched Katakuri in the face; that'd be a feat.

If someone said that Marco could beat Katakuri in one-on-one fight, that'd be a statement.

If we have absolutely nothing connecting the two of them other than sharing similar positions on different Pirate Crews then we don't have a solid basis to compare them.
 
Rin The Dragon Empress said:
At 7-A, Doffy, Gear Fourth and Yonko Commander sounds like a massive low ball to me. Honestly a lot of the issues is that whenever we see feats that are impressive we tend to write them of by saying it doesn't scale. Fujitora's meteorites, The King Punch, Pica's Stone Manipulation and Doffy's Birdcage. ( To which were all accepted to scale in the previous thread and nobody ever bothered making a CRT to not scale them. ) It's pretty annoying actually and now we're actually ignoring blatant Power Scaling? The Calamities aren't the strongest Yonko Crew and there's nothing to suggest that they are. Otherwise Kaido wouldn't be scared to get into a war with another Yonko. We can't just write scaling off because the two never fought, whenever that's literally what power scaling is meant for.
Click to expand...
Pica's Stone Manipulation should only scale to his mountain size Golem and who fought him like Dressrosa Zoro (who was clearly far stronger than Golem Pica even when using his Devil Fruit powers), Dressrosa Gear 2nd Luffy (who should be comparable to Zoro) and possible Elizabello/Chinjao (where their combined attack could nullify Golem Pica's physical strike and destroy one of his arm).

Fujitora's Meteorites is more tricky, since technically those meteorites had been bring down due of Fujitora's gravity powers alone (aka the asteroids weren't affected by planet's gravity at that point), if that so then Fujitora's gravity is powerful enough to attract asteroids and move them at speed at minimum comparable to Earth's escape velocity, so the feat should in theory scale to his standard AP as well, but i'm still not use if this is correct.
 
Damage3245 said:
If we have absolutely nothing connecting the two of them other than sharing similar positions on different Pirate Crews then we don't have a solid basis to compare them.
Click to expand...
So i guess neither Big Mom or current Blackbeard should scale to Kaido?

Big Mom had never be stated or show in the past to have fought the likes Kaido, Whitebeard or Shanks.

And we had nothing for Blackbeard beside defeat a nearly death Whitebeard.
 
@Stefano, we have Blackbeard performing the same sort of feats as Old Whitebeard did with his Devil Fruit so we can at least connect him to that. And we have his past fight with Shanks - although unfortunately offscreen.

We have a statement that only Big Mom, Kaido, Shanks or Marco + Whitebeard Pirates could take on Blackbeard - so that is also a definite statement of power.
 
He has the power to generate strings with that durability and we use this kind of feats to scale characters, either if it's an AP or Durability feat.

We're currently scaling Kaido's pirates far above BM's just because there's nothing connecting the two. But being logical is also important, and no matter how strong Kaido is, he needs his crew, and for some reason he's scared of engaging Linlin in an all-out war in Wano. Why tho? If he's the strongest OP character with great difference, why is he scared of that if his pirates are vastly stronger than BM's? Statements aren't the only thing. This proves that Kaido isn't getting victorious with ease from a war against Linlin.
 
Damage3245 said:
We have a statement that only Big Mom, Kaido, Shanks or Marco + Whitebeard Pirates could take on Blackbeard - so that is also a definite statement of power.
Click to expand...
Big Mom alone or with her entire crew and allied crew?

And just because she is considered as one of the few who could take on Blackbead it doesn't mean she automatically scale to Kaido, Marco was also considered as well but i don't see anyone think that he is now as powerful as other yonko.
 
Dismissing the Birdcage is like dismissing Perospero's candy wall. For example, he produces a candy wall and tanks something big. We can't just dismiss it just because it's a Dura feat. He produced the candy, he has the power to create something that resistent, therefore, he scales. This is the same.

To make it worst, Doffy used it like it was nothing.
 
Stefano, from their wording it looks like they meant Big Mom by herself. Whereas Marco wasn't considered by himself.

If At least 7-A is too far of a lowball to people then I suggest we go back to his original rating of High 7-A for the reasons I mentioned above.

Calaca... that's not how that works. AP does not automatically scale to durability and he doesn't get his AP rating from his Candy Wall.
 
RoronaRobin said:
The statement said just Big Mom, it didn't include her crew.
Click to expand...
Due does directly suggest that Big Mom alone would be able to defeat Blackbeard and his crew without any form of help?
 
What are we even discussing at this point? I ask because reading the last few some on posts it feels like we're getting off track with this and that and complaining rather than a common theme or direction for the thread. :S
 
Dr.Fix said:
What are we even discussing at this point? I ask because reading the last few some on posts it feels like we're getting off track with this and that and complaining rather than a common theme or direction for the thread. :S
Click to expand...
I can't believe I thought the revisions were nearly over.


We should be focusing on the characters whose ratings are uncertain.
 
>For example

AP doesn't scale to durability but he's still able to produce this kind of strings with ease. I still don't get the argument that Doffy doesn't scale to the Durability of his own Birdcage even if he did it with no effort at all.
 
@Damage: Well they were but then multiple pofiles were edited before final completion and the mistakes made have raised issue (Ie Duffy) and gotten us off track.
 
Calaca, why would producing strings of a certain durability mean that the person producing them must also be that durable?

I don't see the connection.
 
Right, which is why I originally rated the King Kong Gun as High 7-A+ and Doffy as High 7-A.

I think we're more or less in agreement.
 
@Damage You can't use just high 7-A. You can only measure to the value of a clac (High 7-A+), or otherwise a percent of a calc given by the manga (Luffy's multiplier).

Also, while you're right that abilities granted by a paramecia do not automatically correlate to one's physical attributes, Duffy does not need that reasoning. His body is proven to tank attks greater than his strings (At least to some extent).
 
And the revisions were almost over, sigh. Anyways I just wanted to point out that we still have Doffy tanking Aokiji´s casual freezing, that shouldnt be weaker than when he froze the sea, so we still have that for the scaling.
 
6-C: Zuu and the five emperors (I still think with the exception of Kaido they should have a likely or possibly added. Even Roger has something like that. Furthermore, a distinction should be made about the Gura fruit and WB/BB's AP being higher than durability), Garp, Sen Goku, Kong, Roger, Dragon
. . .

I think provided we adjust Duffy we can more or less get back on track to wrapping up with the revisions.

We might run into more mistakes in profiles but we'll adjust accordingly when we get there.
 
Not yet. I'm waiting for the end of this revision before getting into a new one that's likely as troublesome as this one.
 
Okay; let's simplify this so we can see what people have issue with:

  • Luffy's Gear 4 at his limits must be at most around High 7-A+ due to overpowering Doflamingo's strongest attack + breaking Spider's Web.
  • Doflamingo was getting ragdolled by Gear 4 but still able to fight back to an extent; so it's not unreasonable to rate him as at least baseline High 7-A.
  • Trafalgar Law should either be High 7-A for harming Doffy; or At least 7-A, likely higher, if we take into account that some of the prominent damage done to him (such as Gamma Knife) was done by ignoring conventional durability.
  • In turn this would make Basil Hawkins and Roronoa Zoro either High 7-A or At least 7-A, likely higher.
  • Cracker, Smoothie and Katakuri would all be At least High 7-A based on the current scaling. I think Katakuri is the only one out of them who could be possibly higher but we can deal with him separately if needs be.
Does anyone have any major issues with this scaling?

To me personally Zoro being At least 7-A, likely higher, would be more in line with Sanji's current scaling since the two would no longer be far apart.
 
1. I think it's more logical to replace "at most" with "as a minimum". Again there is a lot of support for birdcage to not even be among his strongest attks.

2. I'm not sure that is within the rules of the site to give him a sig lower value based on tankng comparable attks.

3. I guess Law scaling for non hax feats make sense, provided links are provided

4. Zoro already scale to 7-A Via Pica. I'm not sure what either he nor Hawkins have to do with Law/Duffy/Luffy to scale??

5. Is there a difference between At least high 7-A and At least high 7-A+ ???

6. Sanji scales to Oven as far as I know, though I only remember Oven beating him off panel.
 
@Dr. Fix; Hawkins scales to Law based on their fight in Wano, and Zoro scales to Hawkins (also based on their fight in Wano).

Zoro has a 7-B feat (for one of his most powerful attacks) in Dressrosa making him At least 7-B in that arc. Pica's only 7-A feat is shifting the landscape around in Dressrosa; the actual strength of his attacks should vary depending on how much stone he has access to which varies a lot.

@Calaca; so you would be fine with rating Gear 4 Luffy as At least High 7-A in that arc?
 
Here's my attempt at a possible final version for Robin's revised stats.

Nico Robi

Skypiea Saga

7-C

Attack Potency: Town level+ (Easily defeated Yama. Was grouped together with the Monster Trio in strength)

Durability: Town level+ (Her duplicate limbs are used in every single one of her attacks, and her real body feels any damage or strain they take. Withstood numerous attacks from Yama without suffering any notable injuries. Took a lightning strike to the head by Enel and remained conscious long enough to overhear Nami agreeing to leave with him)

Thriller Bark Saga

At least 7-C, High 7-C with Cien Fleur

Attack Potency: At least Town level+ (Almost defeated Gekko Moriah), Large Town Level with Cien Fleur (Restrained Oars)

Durability: Large Town Level (Her duplicate limbs are used in every single one of her attacks, and her real body feels any damage or strain they take. Restrained Oars without her arms aching. Quickly recovered from Moriah stealing her shadow, which usually leaves the victim comatose for two days. Survived Ursus Shock)

Dressrosa Saga

At least Low 7-B, likely higher

Attack Potency: At least Small City level (Superior to Hakuba, and casually deflected a sword strike from Diamante), likely higher (Via a large number of arms, regular or gigantic size. Also, she hasn't fought all-out since the timeskip)

Durability: At least Small City level, likely higher (Her duplicate limbs are used in every single one of her attacks, and her real body feels any damage or strain they take. Half no sold and half tanked several of the spiked metal balls from Diamante's Death Enjambre, which was strong enough to damage Kyros)

Lifting Strength: SuperHuman, significantly higher by using large numbers of arms, likely Class M | Class G (Can lift and support the weight of Franky on top of her own without the use of direct use of her powers, and immobilized Oars| At least Class G (Stops Thousand Sunny from colliding into an undersea mountain. Easily restrained one of the extremely strong Giant Kids on Punk Hazard and Cavendish/Hakuba)

Striking Strength: Town Class+| At least Town Class+, Large Town Class with Cien Fleur| At least Small City Class, likely higher (Via a large number of arms, regular or gigantic size)
 
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