One Piece Post-Timeskip Scaling and Calcs #2

[Damage3245]

Okay. In the mean time though, I'll keep adding in justifications / feats on the sandbox to save a bit of time. That way all I'll need to do is modify the ratings for the most part when necessary.

I hope that in the next few days all of the characters listed in my sandbox will have ratings / justifications for them and we can start to narrow it down to what we think is most accurate.

 

[The_Calaca]

I'll try to make the calc group members take a look here. It's a pretty big list.

 

[Stefano4444]

Speaking about calc, i have decided to recalc the Raigo feat by redoing the Upper Yard scaling since if thought KamiYasha used an inaccurate scan for scaling the Beanstalk with the Ark Maxim, the results are still in the High 7-C range.

 

[Stefano4444]

Trying to calculate the size of the square then applying that to the building wouldn't work when the way the building is drawn during their fight is clearly not 1600+ meters wide & over a kilometer tall.

Technically the Royal Palace (by scaling form above the city) would be just 844+ meters in wide.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

High 7-C seems pretty consistent, there's Moriahs calc which hasn't been accepted yet but it has a High 7-C end, Luffy has his own High 7-C feat, Enel has a High 7-C feat if we use vaporization and idk what's happening with Croc and his sandstorm but I heard that could also be High 7-C.

 

[Schnee_One]

Whats the exact number? Just curious

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Whats the exact number? Just curious

All of them are low end like 100-300 Kilotons aside from Moriahs which is 500+ Kilotons.

 

[Stefano4444]

High 7-C seems pretty consistent, there's Moriahs calc which hasn't been accepted yet but it has a High 7-C end, Luffy has his own High 7-C feat, Enel has a High 7-C feat if we use vaporization and idk what's happening with Croc and his sandstorm but I heard that could also be High 7-C.

If my Alubarna's size revision get accepted then yes, even by using standard KE and the lowest speeds it would be High 7-C.

There is also Kuma's Ursus Shock which would be remember since i calculate it to be between High 7-C and Low 7-B.

And Enel did had a Town level+ with via random lightning bolt which could prove that Enel's El Thor is High 7-C.

 

[Damage3245]

The issue isn't the consistency of Pre-Timeskip characters being High 7-C, some of them clearly are, it's when they're High 7-C that's important.

Luffy being High 7-C in the Alabasta Arc and Gekko Moriah & Luffy being High 7-C in the Thriller Bark Arc wouldn't make much sense unless you thought Luffy didn't get stronger in the time since Alabasta and Thriller Bark.

Luffy is Large Town level in the Skypiea Arc via Golden Peony but that is a situational technique (it's enhanced by the Golden Ball) that requires at least 18 hits to accomplish. His ordinary AP in the Skypiea Arc is more likely around Town level.

 

[Stefano4444]

Luffy being High 7-C in the Alabasta Arc and Gekko Moriah & Luffy being High 7-C in the Thriller Bark Arc wouldn't make much sense unless you thought Luffy didn't get stronger in the time since Alabasta and Thriller Bark.

But you do realize that Gekko Moriah's feat was like 700 Kilotons while Luffy's feat was +100 Kilotons? There is a pretty big gap here, and that was just one random punch.

Also Gear 2nd Luffy has been capable to take multiple hits from Asgard Moria without be severely wounded.

Assuming that the Gear 2nd give a 2 times power boost it would make Thriller Bark Luffy +350 Kilotons easily without any Gears, which would put him above his Skypiea counterpart.

Luffy is Large Town level in the Skypiea Arc via Golden Peony but that is a situational technique (it's enhanced by the Golden Ball) that requires at least 18 hits to accomplish. His ordinary AP in the Skypiea Arc is more likely around Town level.

Again, most of the hits were been used to delate the electricity and weaken/destabilize the Raigo, is not like the power behind each punch was been accumulating overtime until the Raigo could no longer hold it.

So it cannot be assume that Luffy needed 18 hits for physically disperse the Raigo.

 

[The_Calaca]

Luffy being High 7-C in the Alabasta Arc and Gekko Moriah & Luffy being High 7-C in the Thriller Bark Arc wouldn't make much sense unless you thought Luffy didn't get stronger in the time since Alabasta and Thriller Bark.

Luffy is Large Town level in the Skypiea Arc via Golden Peony but that is a situational technique (it's enhanced by the Golden Ball) that requires at least 18 hits to accomplish. His ordinary AP in the Skypiea Arc is more likely around Town level.

The Golden Peony was made by Base Luffy so there's no inconsistency with Gear's attacks PreTS.

Moriah did it after gaining a major boost that made him stronger than Oars.

Enel's attacks are around the same level and while people got stomped some of them withstood some named attacks that took more time to launch (Thunder Bird/Beast).

And I already told you. We can't divide Golden Peony's AP if we can't stack the Desert Spada's AP. It's the same thing but inverse. And was you said so.

 

[Damage3245]

> Also Gear 2nd Luffy has been capable to take multiple hits from Asgard Moria without be severely wounded.

Luffy has resistance to blunt damage.

> Again, most of the hits were been used to delate the electricity and weaken/destabilize the Raigo, is not like the power behind each punch was been accumulating overtime until the Raigo could no longer hold it.

> So it cannot be assume that Luffy needed 18 hits for physically disperse the Raigo.

That is one interpretation, yes, another interpretation is that Luffy's physical punches actually contributed very little to dispersing the Raigo and it was simply the electricity being conducted out of the Raigo that caused it to collapse / explode.

Without that Golden Ball on his hand, I doubt Luffy swinging his arms around would clear up the cloud at all.

> And I already told you. We can't divide Golden Peony's AP if we can't stack the Desert Spada's AP. It's the same thing but inverse. And was you said so.

I'm not saying we need to divide the Golden Peony to get Luffy's AP. We can get Luffy's AP from the damage he does to Enel.

I just remarked that it was a coincidence that dividing Golden Peony by 18 got it to about the same rating as I think base Luffy should be in that arc.

 

[The_Calaca]

The fact that Enel's casual lightnings are so high 7-C+ is more than enough to prove that he's far above the 7-C tier.

The goldenball helped Luffy to get as many electricity as possible. Without any confirmation saying that the electricity was the thing that hold the cloud together we can't say so. Luffy actually dispersed the clouds in the surroundings and not only the Raigo itself.

 

[Damage3245]

Which one of Enel's lightning is High 7-C+? I've seen a few 7-C calcs for Enel. Unless you're referring to Cin's one that hasn't been evaluated yet?

 

[The_Calaca]

One with 96KT IIRC.

BTW I posted on the vast majority of calc group members a bunch of calcs that were never evaluated to get this done ASAP.

 

[Damage3245]

Alright, thanks.

I've also put in a request for those three feats of Daz Bones that you mentioned to get calced.

 

[The_Calaca]

Thanks. The more the merrier.

 

[Damage3245]

Hmm, after doing some more rereading I think it's possible that Enel's AP is around Large Town level.

Wiper's Bazooka is apparently Small Town level but according to himself he couldn't wound the giant snake even if he shot it multiple times - however Enel defeated it with a single El Thor.

However I'd find applying the AP of the El Thor to Enel's durability to be a bit weird.

EDIT: Also, some characters ratings would still not be definitely Large Town level. The Old Knight and Robin were one-shot by much, much less impressive lightning than an El Thor.

 

[The_Calaca]

Yeah, not everyone'd scale to Large Town Level.

Wiper and the Monster Trio for sure.

 

[Damage3245]

Just to note, I think there is a small error with Cin's calc. I'm trying to recalc it now, and it may not end up with a different result (in terms of tier) but the specific value of the result would be different.

 

[The_Calaca]

Okay, once you finished let us know.

 

[Js250476]

For the record the Enel feat Calaca talked about was this one https://www.narutoforums.org/xfa-blog-entry/one-piece-calc-26-enels-casual-lightning-dc.26672/

Just barley below high 7-C

 

[Damage3245]

I created my version of the calc. I'll see what a calc group member thinks.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

> Didn't Crocodile admit to Vivi that he was the responsable of Alabasta's drougth? Meaning his defeat was necessary for the rain to return.

Wasn't that the reason why Crocodile had a ship with Dance Powder on it? If he used the Dance Powder to cause the drought, then he would be responsible for it even if it wasn't through his own power.

The problem with that though is that 1) if he had used dance powder, it would have rained somewhere else nearby 2) he only had dance powder to frame the King 3) the rain returned immediately after he was knocked unconscious (Smoker couldn't have predicted the timing).

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

The fact that Enel's casual lightnings are so high 7-C+ is more than enough to prove that he's far above the 7-C tier.

The goldenball helped Luffy to get as many electricity as possible. Without any confirmation saying that the electricity was the thing that hold the cloud together we can't say so. Luffy actually dispersed the clouds in the surroundings and not only the Raigo itself.

I agree. In addition to this, people often fail to take into account Enel's most powerful form, which only was defeated by Luffy because of his immunity to lightning. Enel's most powerful form was never needed on Skypiea because no one was able to contend with him at the time (except for Luffy, who he couldn't affect).

 

[Gianglebatruong]

We are done here?

 

[The_Calaca]

Nope.

 

[The_Calaca]

Low End was accepted which is 2.2km. I need to find if that's radius or diameter because I need to figure out if the mast is truly the center of the island.

After Damage redid the feat Tata accepted the High End at 65KT.

Enel's second Raigo which only scales to Luffy's resistance to electricity is 20GT.

Mr. 4's explosio is now 237 tons (8-A) so now we have a start for Arabasta's characters.

And Zunisha's Trunk was accepted at 4.6GT.

All of these feats must be updated to the OP.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

Low End was accepted which is 2.2km. I need to find if that's radius or diameter because I need to figure out if the mast is truly the center of the island.

After Damage redid the feat Tata accepted the High End at 65KT.

Enel's second Raigo which only scales to Luffy's resistance to electricity is 20GT.

Mr. 4's explosio is now 237 tons (8-A) so now we have a start for Arabasta's characters.

And Zunisha's Trunk was accepted at 4.6GT.

All of these feats must be updated to the OP.

I honestly don't see why Enel's Raigo feat needs to be accepted only by its low end value. It was with the help of a ship, so the stats don't even fully apply to him. Plus, he has some of the best AOE feats in the series thus far, as he is the only character that actually attempted to destroy everything instead of just ruling or killing everyone.

 

[The_Calaca]

Even then that feat is applicable to nobody but Luffy's resistance since he's the only one who directly interacted with the Raigo.

The feat was accepted but the calc group members doubted about the applicability which isn't a problem as I explained earlier.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

Agreed.

 

[Damage3245]

I'll update the OP soon with the accepted calcs.

 

[The_Calaca]

Something I noticed in my Thriller Bark's calc is that the Mid End and the Low End comes from different perspectives. If you watch closely the scan that leads to the Low End shows the helm's wheel at the right side of the picture while the Mid End has the helm's wheel at the left side.

 

[Damage3245]

There's funnily enough a panel in the most recent chapter showing Thriller Bark next to an island with buildings on it, and I'm not sure if it is perspective or what but Thriller Bark looks surprisingly small.

 

[The_Calaca]

Yeah, but I'm not sure if it's the exact same Thriller Bark and the perspective is tricky.

 

[Aerozz]

ya but that means that the island is very huge and the Thriller Bark ship was far away imo.

 

[KobsterHope07]

So here a very rough draft on the Pre-Timeskip rating for the first few arc:

East Blue Saga: All top tier get upgraded to 'At least High 8-C' like the Monster Trio, Arlong, Krieg and Kuro.

Alabasta Saga: Everybody is downgraded to 8-A with the weaker members of both SH and Baroque Works being around baseline due to Mr._4_Explosion_(One_Piece) with the stronger members being 'At least 8-A' like Sanji, Zoro, Daz, Bon-chan and Crocodile by being stronger than the other by a unquantifiable amount. Luffy scales to 'At least 8-A+' due to his own Gomu_Gomu_no_Storm~ feat.

Skypeia Saga: Enel is 7-C+ via his own feat Enel El_Thor, with being theortically 6-C with preparation and Arc Maxim through Enel's second Raigo, only Luffy's electricy resistance also scales to this. The Monster Trio should scale to this, with Luffy only becoming High 7-C+ via his Golden Pelony (Luffy_Disperse_Raigo). I am not confident about the others.

Water Seven/Enies Lobby: Don't have cal for these yet, so I don't know, but the CP9 should be around 'At least 7-C+' from Blueno tanking Base Luffy's attacks back during the Water Seven's incident easily... well, only Blueno and those above him (Jabra, Kaku, Lucci), weaker members like Kalifa should be 7-C+. The 'likely higher' added for their use of Tekkai for both AP, Striking Strength and Durability as Blueno and Jabra demonstrated the ability to go on the offensive despite it being a stationary, defensive technique. The weaker trio of the SH definately bump up to 7-C+ for fighting weaker CP9 agents and winning (with the exception of Usopp and Robin but they still scale to them). The monster trio obviously scale to the stronger member of CP9, with Luffy Gear 3rd being a 'far higher' for nearly one-shotting Rob-Lucci while he was using Tekkai.

Unsure about Thriller Barks and the other arc still need to be discussed. So does this sound.

 

[Js250476]

I think calc wise what needs to be discussed is Moriah splitting Thriller Bark and Kumas Ursus Shockwave now that we have an accepted size of the ship

 

[The_Calaca]

Alabasta Saga: Everybody is downgraded to 8-A with the weaker members of both SH and Baroque Works being around baseline due to Mr._4_Explosion_(One_Piece) with the stronger members being 'At least 8-A' like Sanji, Zoro, Daz, Bon-chan and Crocodile by being stronger than the other by a unquantifiable amount. Luffy scales to 'At least 8-A+' due to his own Gomu_Gomu_no_Storm~ feat.

GGNS's feat isn't valid. Also Damage and I were discussing about how legit is the 8-A explosion for Lassoo. The rest of the explosions were severely smaller in comparison.

Skypeia Saga: Enel is 7-C+ via his own feat Enel El_Thor, with being theortically 6-C with preparation and Arc Maxim through Enel's second Raigo, only Luffy's electricy resistance also scales to this. The Monster Trio should scale to this, with Luffy only becoming High 7-C+ via his Golden Pelony (Luffy_Disperse_Raigo). I am not confident about the others.

Also, Damage stated that he'll attempt to calc some other feats of Enel's lightning in order to be as consistent as possible. And I don't know if Enel should be upgraded to 6-C with prep. Isn't something he can do without Maxim and Deathpiea which isn't his standard equipment. I'm not dismissing it as outlier but it shouldn't be applicable to Enel's AP.

Water Seven/Enies Lobby: Don't have cal for these yet, so I don't know, but the CP9 should be around 'At least 7-C+' from Blueno tanking Base Luffy's attacks back during the Water Seven's incident easily... well, only Blueno and those above him (Jabra, Kaku, Lucci), weaker members like Kalifa should be 7-C+. The 'likely higher' added for their use of Tekkai for both AP, Striking Strength and Durability as Blueno and Jabra demonstrated the ability to attack despite it being a stationary, defensive technique. The weaker trio of the SH definately bump up to 7-C+ for fighting weaker CP9 agents and winning (with the exception of Usopp and Robin but they still scale to them). The monster trio obviously scale to the stronger member of CP9, with Luffy Gear 3rd being a 'far higher' for nearly one-shotting Rob-Lucci while he was using Tekkai.

Golden Peony is a rapid-fire attack and the golden ball shouldn't play a major role in Luffy's strength so all of those attacks should be High 7-C+ or at least High 7-C+ (if Low End is accepted because there're two ends with 2.9 and 4.2MT).

So depending on the result of Stefano's calc and which end gets accepted the verse'd probably get upgraded to High 7-C or Low 7-B.

>Thriller Bark

Moriah's feat should use the Low End (2.2km) since it's the vissible part that was cracked while Kuma's feat probably should used adding both the Low and Mid End to find the total diameter of the island (which would be around 5.3km).

 

[Cmue0312]

I agree with KobsterHope07 on East Blue and top tiers Alabasta scaling.

I found a few explosions to calc: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

Comaparison between Mr.4, Miss Merry Christmas, Usopp and Chopper: 1, 2, 3

Usopp is 174cm and Chopper (small form) is 90 cm

Enel should be 6-C with Maxim and Deathpiea and would only count as Enviromental Destruction.

As for Golden Peony I think it should be considered a special attack or an outlier. As the lowest end for the calculation (which still needs to be evalulated) is 849 Kilotons which is way higher than any other attack in the arc or even pre-timeskip: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Stefano4444/Luffy_Disperse_Raigo

Ugarik already has a calc of Moria's feat and the high end is 544 Kilotons it just needs to be evalulated: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Ugarik/Moriah's_'Island_Splitter'

Has anyone recaled Kuma's attack using the accepted size of Thriller Bark?

Also does Zunisha's trunk attack apply entirely to Jack because he survived it or would only a portion apply?