• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

One Piece Post-Timeskip Scaling and Calcs #2

Status
Not open for further replies.
Damage3245

Damage3245

He/Him
VS Battles
Administrator
Calculation Group
31,208
27,406
Quite a few calcs have been remade in the light of certain errors being discovered in previous calcs, this means that a lot of the current scaling chains for Post-Timeskip characters are obsolete and require a thorough examination. Here is a rough list of all the calcs to take into consideration.

So, based on these calcs (and any others if anyone has any available), we need to figure out a new scaling chain for quite a lot of Post-Timeskip characters.

This is the second iteration of the thread due to the length of the first thread, which can be found here: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2324440

Rough Suggestion so far:

Characters who are City level:

  • Base Luffy, Elizabello, Bartolomeo, Doffy's Black Knight, Cavendish, Kyros, Diamante, Trebol (and most of the weaker Doflamingo Pirates).
Characters who are at least City level (as in, At least City level, or Mountain level):

  • Zoro (His calced finishing move on Pica was this strong), Vergo, Pica, Sanji, Smoker, Don Chinjao, Gear 2/3 Luffy, Trafalgar Law.
Characters who are At least Mountain level or Large Mountain level:

  • Doflamingo, Sabo, Burgess, Fujitora without meteors, Gear 4 Luffy, Aokiji, etc.
Characters who are At least Large Mountain level, possibly Island level:

  • Kaido, Whitebeard, Big Mom, Shanks, etc.
 
City level+ Gear 2/3 Luffy would probably make more scence. Scaled from ferocious tiger.
 
And about the scaling, specifically Fujitora and Doflamingo.

1) I personally think that Fujitora should be put at the same level of other Admirals, it doesn't make sense for him to get promoted to that rank without the necessary level of strength, this is not like be a Shichibukai, if he had be promoted it must mean because he should be at least comparable to Kizaru.

2) While for an extend agree i agree that the Birdcage should not scale to Doffy's standard attacks and that is likely one of his strongest technique, i personally his Awakening and his Durability should still scale.

A. Awakening because not only it his strongest ability (making it superior to the Birdcage), but because logically it should be, since he can turn the landscape intro massive columns made of strings, as many as he had used to create the Birdcage, with the major difference is that he can use them to directly attack his opponents, and all of that without adding Haki intro the mix.

B. Durability because Gear 4th Luffy had be capable to physically break and shatter Awakening Strings and Doffy is able to survive multiple blows, even the King Kong Gun.
 
I was wrong when I said that there are no difference in power before and after fight with Katakuri.

At first, Katakuri overwhelmed Luffy that is widely recognized. He harmed Luffy in Fourth Gear with Strength mochi. When Luffy came back, he equally matched Strength Mochi with only Third Gear in chap 891. Sorry for being not able to scan the image.

I know that it is hard to accept that huge jump in power in real life, but that is how mangas work. Rayleigh said Haki grow stronger in tough battle. I believe it includes all kind of Haki. It is proof for the increase in Luffy power.

Hope it is useful.
 
That's already accepted as proof.

But it's okay. Good to see I'm not the only one who remember that.
 
Glad to see that. It can be used to argue post-Kata Third Gear is comparable to pre-Kata Fourth Gear. As the result, post-Kata Fourth gear is much more powerful since the relative difference between forms remain the same.
 
I don't think that is the case.

Luffy's Gear 3 could briefly match Katakuri's own version of 'Gear 3' before being overwhelmed. Katakuri is clearly putting in some effort here, even if he is stronger.

And in the next clash between them, Luffy's Gear 3 matches Katakuri's attack... but Katakuri kicks Luffy in the face instead of just continuing with the clash. I don't doubt Luffy got a bit stronger over the course of the fight, but he didn't get 'much more powerful'.

It is entirely possible Katakuri could have just overpowered him in that clash but instead took advantage of it to kick him in the face.
 
Quite reasonable if we assume Kata used the same techniques or at least it shared the same power. But remember, Strength Mochi siriously harmed Gear 4 Luffy. I mean, he could hold such power attack by Gear 3 is impressive feats and it is worth to consider as a huge jump in attack potency.
 
7-B

  • Base Hody.
  • Majority of Strawhats.
At least 7-B or 7-A

  • Base Luffy (at least 7-B).
  • Majority of Vice Admirals (Bastille, Doberman, etc).
  • Caesar Clown (Durability).
  • Hody (Monster scaling to Red Hawk).
  • Vander Decken (Durability for survive for a brief moment to Overdosed Hody's attack).
  • Pica with Armament (pushed Zoro to use Armament in order to defeat him). And Zoro for one-shot him.
  • Overdosed Hyouzou (clashed swords with Zoro but got stomped so At least 7-B should be fine).
  • Robin (restrained Hakuba and sustained several injuries from Diamante's attacks).
At least 7-A or High 7-A

  • Yonko Commanders (but it depends on who are we talking about).
  • Admirals (High 7-A).
  • Gear 4th will depend but I'm leaning towards High 7-A scaling from Doflamingo and Katakuri.
  • Oven (for his feat) and Sanji for kicking him.
At least High 7-A, possibly 6-C:

  • Prime Roger and Whitebeard.
  • Prime Shiki.
  • Prime Garp and Sengoku.
  • Kurohige Pre Gura Gura. For Post Gura Gura I'd put Unknow.
  • Chopper (Durability with Guard Point).
 
Whatever Robin's new tier is, IMHO, I think potentially/possibly/likely higher should be added to it. People mention all the time how Zoro hasn't gone full power yet after the timeskip, but the same could be said about Robin (and also Sanji). Since the crew reunited, Oda has yet to make her go all-out. Even when she was helping Bartolomeo and the others use his Barrier to try and push back the Birdcage, he had her holding back for some odd reason. The two giant hands she was pushing with weren't nearly as large as she could make them, and she also could've sprouted more hands for added strength.

I apologize in advance if it wasn't okay to bring this up in this thread.
 
Doflamingo be should be ranked above Oven, he could stomp Dressrosa Sanji with minimum effort, while Oven couldn't do the same with Whole Cake Island Sanji, and also because the Birdcage should still scale his AP/Dura which would put him above Oven, that would turn the scaling intro something like this:

7-B:

  • Base Hody
  • Nami and Usopp
At least 7-B to 7-A:

  • Pre Katakuri Fight Luffy (At least 7-B in Base)
  • Franky and Brook (At least 7-B, possible higher)
  • Monet (At least 7-B)
  • Dolfamingo's Black Knight (Likely 7-A)
  • Monster Hody (At least 7-B)
  • Pica (At least 7-B, possible 7-A. 7-A with Stone Golem)
  • Chinjao and Kyros (7-A)
  • Nico Robin (At least 7-B, likely 7-A)
  • Carrot (At least 7-B, higher with Sulong)
  • Chopper (At least 7-B, higher with Monster Point)
At least 7-A to High 7-A:

  • Charlotte Oven (High 7-A)
  • Pre Katakuri Fight Luffy (At least 7-A to Likely High 7-A with Gear 2nd)
  • Sanji and Zoro (At least 7-A to Likely High 7-A)
  • Doflamingo (At least High 7-A)
High 7-A+:

  • Doflamingo with Awakening
6-C:

  • Gear 4th Luffy and variations
  • Charlotte Katakuri, Cracker, Smoothie
  • Jack, Queen, King
  • Marco, Jozu, Ace, Vista
At least 6-C:

  • Fujitora, Kizaru, Ryokugyu
  • Mihawk
  • Akainu, Sengoku
  • Big Mom, Kaido, Blackbeard, Shanks
  • Whitebeard, Roger, Garp
 
Okay, it looks like the main points of contention currently are where Doflamingo's Birdcage and Awakening fits into the grand scheme of things.

I don't think that Awakening necessarily increases his AP/durability; it seems mostly to increase his attack volume, its range, and area of effect (allowing him to make strings from the surrounding area rather than just himself).

I think it is pretty clear that Birdcage is above every other attack he has shown aside from possibly his finishing God Thread attack against Luffy.

It took the efforts of countless Dwarves, marines, civilians, colloseum fighters, Zoro, Kinemon, Kanjuro, Franky, Robin, and Fujitora, etc to even slow down the Birdcage let alone stop it. This is seemingly way above anything else that Doflamigno has thrown out.

So instead I would suggest that Doflamingo be High 7-A normally (including his ordinary and Awakened attacks), with his Birdcage at High 7-A+.

Luffy's Gear 4 as of the Dressrosa Arc should be At least High 7-A. Possibly 6-C after the Whole Cake Island Arc.
 
Don't forget about Charlotte Daifuku, he's should be at least comparable in strength to Charlotte Oven and was able to overwhelm Sanji with raw force (well his genie all of the work). Making him Unknow physically, High 7-A with genie.

Carrot's Sulrong Form was able to manuver around Daifuku pretty easily, and could be at least comparable to him, making her rating be Likely High 7-A
 
I don't think Fujitora had ever use his full strength during the entire arc, honestly if Fujitora really wanted to stop the Birdcage he could had go and defeat Doflamingo right away and he could had won, and even if he was focus in saving lifes and fighting Sabo he would know that Doffy defeat was the priority.

But instead he decided to take a bet and leave it to Luffy and i think it was a premeditated move, he really wanted Luffy to defeat Doffy so to make harded for the marines to cover up the crisis, so that he could get more support in abolishing the Shichibukai's system.

For the Birdcage, while the Birdcage shouldn't scale Doffy's standard attacks, i really doubt that its superior to even his Awakening, not when the latter supposed to be his strongest ability which should make it above every other techniques in Doffy's arsenal.

And it does make sense by even how they work, since the amount of strings that Doffy's can generate by trasmutating the landscape seen to be on a scale comparable with the creation of the Birdcage, with the difference that Doffy can use such power to directly attack.
 
If we have no clear evidence of Sulong Carrot being comparable to Daifuku's Genie we can't grant her the High 7-A rating. At most we can say that she's faster than him.
 
We might be able to calc the Knock Up Stream that lifted up half of Jaya in the past. Blackbeard's crew took a good strike of it and they were unscathed about it despite they had their ship destroyed.
 
When is it stated that Awakening is his strongest ability? It is clearly a level that his Devil Fruit / himself has reached that let's him do new things that are impossible to do normally with just the String-String fruit but the showings of it are not very impressive.

Gear 4 mostly just dodged all of his Awakened attacks, and when he used Awakened attacks against base Luffy it didn't seem to do much damage.

And you're right that Fujitora wasn't using his full power; he only relief on physical strength and not his Devil Fruit - but there are quite a lot of other people there that I mentioned that were also trying to stop the Birdcage alongside him.
 
Awakening threads were clearly much thicker than his ones that were used to make Birdcage, which wasn't even an attack. Logically, his Awakening attacks should be equal or stronger than the ones he used in Birdcage. Which was brought up by a Black Knight with ease.
 
Damage3245 said:
When is it stated that Awakening is his strongest ability?
Click to expand...
http://www.************/uploads/chapters/5404/791/08.png

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-7ed19c864765d7ecd3f61daa9a057a06

https://pm1.narvii.com/5787/0b5e593346cd4b7dfda58f0781966b1e8159ae5a_hq.jpg

All versions basically say the same thing, that Awakening allow the Devil Fruit user to reach a whole new level of power that normally wouldn't be possible, and in a few versions it also mention that the Awakening affect also the body's user, likely making it stronger as well.

Meaning Awakening Devil Fruit > Standard Devil Fruit in general, including all abilities/techniques, if it wasn't the case (and Awakening only give one extra ability that doesn't make the user stronger) then it wouldn't be a big deal as Doffy suggested.
 
Damage3245 said:
Well, to slightly correct you the official version has a bit of a different interpretatio. It's not a matter of raw power, but just a stage of the Devil Fruit where it can affect things beyond the user's body.
Click to expand...
That should still permit Doflamingo to utilize attacks that surpass everything other techniques he had before, since he can utilize just as many strings as (if not more than) the ones needed to create the Birdcage to directly attack the opponents instead of trapping them.
 
Yes, it is technically possible but I don't think we have enough info to say that Luffy's Gear 4 scales directly to the Birdcage.

What if we say for now that Doflamingo's durability is High 7-A, and we can attribute the length of time he lasted against Gear 4 to be primarily down to his insane endurance and stamina. He did only take 5 hits directly from G4 IIRC, and even before the last one of those (the King Kong Gun), he was practically down for the count from just those 4 hits on top of the accumulated damage from his fight with Law.

Gear 4 should be At least High 7-A. In the Whole Cake Island Arc, it could be Possibly 6-C.
 
On top of that it's slightly above baseline High 7-A. Calling it outlier ignores the power progression a shonen do.
 
Rin and Calaca are right; Oven may very well be one of the strongest of Big Mom's pirates that's not an actual commander. There's nothing inherently wrong as far as I can see right now with him being just above baseline High 7-A.
 
Yeah, Nami with Zeus has only had a Town level feat so far... we gotta wait till later for her to do something impressive to her to receive an upgrade.
 
Doflamingo be should be ranked above Oven, he could stomp Dressrosa Sanji with minimum effort, while Oven couldn't do the same with Whole Cake Island Sanji, and also because the Birdcage should still scale his AP/Dura which would put him above Oven, that would turn the scaling intro something like this:

7-B:

  • Base Hody
  • Nami and Usopp
At least 7-B to 7-A:

  • Pre Katakuri Fight Luffy (At least 7-B in Base)
  • Franky and Brook (At least 7-B, possible higher)
  • Monet (At least 7-B)
  • Dolfamingo's Black Knight (Likely 7-A)
  • Monster Hody (At least 7-B)
  • Pica (At least 7-B, possible 7-A. 7-A with Stone Golem)
  • Chinjao and Kyros (7-A)
  • Nico Robin (At least 7-B, likely 7-A)
  • Carrot (At least 7-B, higher with Sulong)
  • Chopper (At least 7-B, higher with Monster Point)
At least 7-A to High 7-A:

  • Charlotte Oven (High 7-A)
  • Pre Katakuri Fight Luffy (At least 7-A to Possible High 7-A with Gear 2nd)
  • Sanji and Zoro (At least 7-A to Possible High 7-A)
  • Doflamingo (High 7-A)
High 7-A+:

  • Doflamingo with Awakening
6-C:

  • Gear 4th Luffy and variations
  • Charlotte Katakuri, Cracker, Smoothie
  • Jack
  • Marco, Jozu, Ace, Vista
At least 6-C:

  • Fujitora, Kizaru, Ryokugyu
  • Mihawk
  • Akainu, Sengoku
  • Big Mom, Kaido, Blackbeard, Shanks
  • Whitebeard, Roger, Garp
I'll concede to these tiers.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Nami_Kami
  • Locked
Slight Alabasta revisions:
Replies
12
Views
1K
Damage3245
Damage3245
HakutoRei000
WEAKEST CHARACTER FOR EVERY TIER FIGHT EACH OTHER.
Replies
1
Views
872
HakutoRei000
HakutoRei000
MasqueTLDF
  • Locked
DxD Issei AP Revision 2
Replies
34
Views
2K
LephyrTheRevanchist
LephyrTheRevanchist
TheRustyOne
  • Locked
MHA: Attack Potency and Lifting Strength Upgrades
2
Replies
45
Views
5K
Damage3245
Damage3245
DemiiPowa
  • Locked
Most POWERFUL character of EACH TIER
2
Replies
53
Views
4K
Colonel_Krukov
Colonel_Krukov
Back
Top