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One Piece: Planet Size Discussion
- Thread starter KingTempest
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- one piece (verse)
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That kind of method sounds bad no matter what values your using. A slightly better one would be using the distance between Roguetown and Reverse Mountain and using about 12 hours travel time, but that no doubt conflicts with sizes for Alabasta and other islands. And it's not great because it's not a reliable timeframe to begin with.
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- #163
No staff care about this enough, people just need to stop derailing.
As this is now a revision based thread, I’m moving this to content revision. I won’t hesitate removing people from the thread if they fail to stay on track
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- #164
just checked something
the percentage of water on the OP planet doesn't appear to be that much different from the irl earth, since the earth's surface area also ***** on the amount of land, so water density doesn't need to be used. we can just use earth density
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Why was water density even an option? The Earth is only two percent-of-a-percent water by mass since the oceans are shallow puddles compared to the interior layers' thickness. And if the One Piece world is several dozen times Earth's diameter (at least), then even if it's oceans were a hundred kilometers deep, they'd still pale to the mass of everything solid.
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I wouldn't use watery density for the OP world. I just wouldn't use a higher value for gravity unless we had some direct implications of that.
GodlyCharmander
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The planet is clearly bigger, but Oda is obviously not applying the consequences of said size on the planet in a scientifically accurate scale.
We're updating the size of the planet, and nothing else.
We're updating the size of the planet, and nothing else.
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- #168
I'm sorry but what?
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
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I agree with the OP, but the repercussions of having a bigger planet (such as higher atmosphere pressure, higher gravity, etc) are likely not taken into consideration by Oda.
You make me feel like I said something absurd.
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- #171
How do you write "higher gravity" and "higher atmosphere pressure" into the story?
Make everybody crawl on the ground for the entire series?
Make everyone who goes to skypiea shrivel up?
You do know if we accept the planet and ignore the gravity, we'd get things like 18 kg/m3 density of the planet. The planet would be big and light. You'd have water denser than the planet. You'd have paper and flesh denser than the planet.
What about the repercussions of having a lighter planet?
I don't think we can ignore that because "Oda ain't show us". Oda doesn't show the planet being that light either.
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OP planet would be a gas ^ if that were the case
I haven’t read OP since the last chapter released but I don’t think it’s a gas
GodlyCharmander
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By calling attention to it in any meaningful way. Either by the infrastructure of the planet, or by how it functions.
An example would be a planet written to have a higher gravity is that "normal plants can't grow high/are extra tough because the gravity is so strong"
Obviously this is just an example.
Just because you can't particularly think of a way to introduce the concept in a series, doesn't mean it's not possible. If Oda was taking this higher-than-normal gravity into consideration, he would, and should, have called attention to it.
Real Life consequences that don't necessarily apply to a fictional setting? Yes, we would.
There's a whole topic on why you shouldn't limit, or rule fiction because "oh dude, it would be so crazy in real life, that's impossible".
And this also applies to the opposing side, don't worry. I can't just say "Well, the gravity can't be that strong because flowers exists" (which is not what I did earlier, btw). But the difference is, you're the one that has to prove the gravity is scientifically accurate to the larger proportions of the planet.
I don't have to prove a negative, and I am in an advantage considering every adaptation so far portrayed gravity as being normal.
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If the planet was actually as dense as a "nearly 3 times the size of the Sun" calc would suggest, then the rocky ball would have collapsed inwards under its own gravity to form a star.
No matter how we look at it, there are physics problems everywhere with this.
Which is why it makes the most sense to me to just assume Earth-like conditions unless directly told or implied otherwise.
The Toriko Earth is canonically 220,000 km in circumference but it uses normal Earth stats aside from that. (Not trying to spin this off into talking about other verses, just giving an example that it is not unprecedented)
No matter how we look at it, there are physics problems everywhere with this.
Which is why it makes the most sense to me to just assume Earth-like conditions unless directly told or implied otherwise.
The Toriko Earth is canonically 220,000 km in circumference but it uses normal Earth stats aside from that. (Not trying to spin this off into talking about other verses, just giving an example that it is not unprecedented)
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Well not really, the reason Rocky planets don’t get much larger than earth irl, is that they can’t compete with the gravity of their star they orbit during planetary formation to get that big. Stellar formation has more so to do with fostering temperatures high enough to facilitate fusion. I don’t think we know anything about the OP solar system to comment much on the logistics of forming a planet that large. We also, on both sides of this argument, need to be wary of appealing too much to reality.
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- #176
So I need to prove that the planet isn't denser than water for my argument to hold any value?
This sounds a lot like the atmospheric pressure issue I'm seeing right now.
You can't bring up the issues of having a large dense planet and then ignore the planet's properties
It's literally "Oda didn't show it, so it can't be used", but we didn't say this for the opposite.
Stars don't form via rock collapse
Assuming earth like conditions would then make a paradoxical planet that's somehow bigger than the sun and less dense. So unless the OP planet isn't a planet and it's a bigass cloud, idk.
The Toriko earth has spaces with higher gravity than others.
Heck, doesn't the atmosphere issue get supported by the grand line's climate alone?
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That's sort of the consequence of us headcanoning planet sizes into existence. We end up with ridiculous results like the planet being many times bigger than a star, but with zero implication of any of the physical side-effects of that.
Which means the safer approach is just to ignore that side of things. I brought this up on my first post in the thread. I could foresee inevitable revisions being fought for over this issue like "Potential Energy is way, way higher on the One Piece planet" or "Character's Lifting Strength is over 50 times higher than on Earth."
Certain spaces yeah, which isn't a product of the planet's mass but a special effect of those areas.
The Grand Line's climate is weird and varies quite a lot. I don't think that addresses the atmosphere issues though.
Probably not, but there'd be a lot of noticeable effects to a planet that massive which are absent in the story.
PrinceofPein
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A planet 2.7 times bigger than the sun would mean
1. It becomes the new center of the solar system, which means the sun would be orbiting round the earth not the other way around
2. Time will flow a lot more slower, way slower than the norms
3. Chad mentioned them above but I decided to add those two cause that’s kind of the biggest effect of a planet that big
And while we are at saying what Oda is implying, I’m F—ing sure Oda did not imply or ever implied to make a earth 2.7 times bigger than the sun.
There are other calcs that can be used or just turn a blind eye to the physics side of things. This thing goes for both sides
1. It becomes the new center of the solar system, which means the sun would be orbiting round the earth not the other way around
2. Time will flow a lot more slower, way slower than the norms
3. Chad mentioned them above but I decided to add those two cause that’s kind of the biggest effect of a planet that big
And while we are at saying what Oda is implying, I’m F—ing sure Oda did not imply or ever implied to make a earth 2.7 times bigger than the sun.
There are other calcs that can be used or just turn a blind eye to the physics side of things. This thing goes for both sides
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- Thread starter
- #179
Let me sum up the atmosphere of One Piece then since some people forgot it.
- People can fly to space solely by wind and air.
- The grand line's climate is drastically different, climate is heavily based on atmosphere
- The grand line has 16 seasons which
- People can breathe on much higher altitudes than earth
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Do you think Physics matter in fiction? The planet could be the size of the solar system and still be normal.
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Sounds like a good idea.
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Not knowledgeable on One Piece but I feel that people are getting overly pedantic on the physics issues with an overly large planet. Personally, I feel that if there's consistent implication to a larger size than normal within the setting (like stated distances and large travel times) then it should take precedent over "but the atmosphere's composition would change" type arguments but that's just me.
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- #184
The atmosphere is the cause for stuff like this
And we're gonna act as if the conditions of the planet are regular
And we're gonna act as if the conditions of the planet are regular
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Well, it should have been obvious at how deep the ocean is, how strange some phenomena are in the verse...or how there are islands that are in the sky and more crazy stuff.
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I mean the Ocean isn't even that deep at least compared to the insanity of the rest of the planet. Looking at how big some creatures are I would expect it to be dozens of kilometers deep
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- #187
"Earth like conditions" yeah no
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That's true but wouldn't that just be the amount of water? Not about the planet itself?
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- #189
Average depth of the Ocean is 3.7 Kilometers and the deepest part is 10.9 Kilometers
35 km Zunesha walks around the world with its body half submerged in water, 17.5 km
The world is big
Hasty12345
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I disagree FRA
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- #191
(Disagree with what? We have like 8 different points)
GodlyCharmander
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I feel like you're all attacking a strawman.
Never did I even remotely imply that the atmosphere argument was trying to debunk the size of the planet.
My argument isn't, "Atmosphere normal therefore no big planet",
my argument is,
That.
And I don't know why it was framed like I was arguing against that, when that's literally my argument.
Yes, the planet is big as ****, does that mean we can assume the gravity is physically accurate to it's proportions? Absolutely not.
Never did I even remotely imply that the atmosphere argument was trying to debunk the size of the planet.
My argument isn't, "Atmosphere normal therefore no big planet",
my argument is,
^
That.
And I don't know why it was framed like I was arguing against that, when that's literally my argument.
Yes, the planet is big as ****, does that mean we can assume the gravity is physically accurate to it's proportions? Absolutely not.
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- #193
Nobody said you were trying to attack the size of the planet.
We said that your argument about it not being realistically accurate gravity wise based on things like atmospheric pressure is an unrealistic standard, and even with that being an unrealistic standard, One Piece has support for it.
We said that your argument about it not being realistically accurate gravity wise based on things like atmospheric pressure is an unrealistic standard, and even with that being an unrealistic standard, One Piece has support for it.
GodlyCharmander
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The higher atmosphere pressure, and higher gravity points are not intertwined at all.
Lol.
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Maybe @DemonGodMitchAubin can help, since he himself just finished doing a gravity-related calc for Fairy Tail's world, which is also larger than Earth by a sizable margin.
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- #197
Atmospheric pressure point then is cut out
Unless you want there being scans of things weighing more, nada.
Let's remember. In this universe, there is nobody who's gonna come and say "this is denser than my other planet on earth!"
You want there to be something that will never be there, and since it's not there, we just cut out a large aspect of planet sizes?
You can't eat your cake and have it. You can't say the planet is bigger and ignore the gravity portion without any antifeats except "Oda didn't show bigger gravity".
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I'm with this.
This is about the planet, not the solar system. For all we know the rest of the planets are just as big and the sun of the verse is just ridiculously huge as well.
Stop trying to apply real world logic to a fictional verse. The arguments just don't work.
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Sorry, I misinterpreted your feat for Deus Sema.
But since you still analyzed stuff like the planet's GPE and other qualities of a planet larger than Earth, maybe you can provide some aid to this chaotic thread?
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