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One Piece General Discussion: Egghead

SlendVeny said:
Long post warning, sorry.

There's a very interesting thing I've been thinking about. I feel like Ace might be able to beat Kizaru. Marineford Kizaru for sure, since he wasn't as strong. However, Kizaru in general is at a huge disadvantage.

I don't think he can coat light in Haki, and fire isn't weak to light, nor light to fire. They both have fairly similar fighting styles, centered around overwhelming their opponent with speed, range, and mobility, while also creating constructs, but there's an issue. Ace has better physical tactics, and Kizaru uses ranged attacks, so Ace's fighting style is more relevant here.

First off, there's the question of power. Kizaru could hold his own against G5 Luffy, albeit only though his hax abilities. I don't think Ace could beat Luffy. Now, here's the issue about Ace's power. The only feats we have are clashing with Whitebeard for a small amount of damage while he was Oldbeard, and before Ace joined the crew fully, fighting Blackbeard(nearly beating him, with Blackbeard winning because Ace let him get back up every time he went down, and because Ace had no prior knowledge, and without us seeing the end. For all we know, Ace wrecked his shit, then everyone else jumped him with Haki on.), fighting Aokiji and Akainu(After being imprisoned, barely fed or given water, kept in stamina-draining seastone cuffs, etc.), and even then, he lost because the guy with an elemental advantage targeted his brother(Akainu lost his arm, too, iirc, and idk why). I think they might be pretty even here, especially considering Kizaru was only fighting G5 with pretty much no Haki, and never fought Boundman, which should be superior to no-Haki G5 in terms of Anti-Logia AP, just off the fact that he has Haki on in that state.

Next up is speed. Kizaru fought G5 Luffy, and the speed he showed is pretty much the only reason he kept up. Ace easily intercepted Akainu's punch(while weakened, as I said before), and could accelerate enough to dodge out casual Oldbeard when he joined the crew a long time ago. I don't really see much of an advantage either way, and the only guy who directly upscales off Ace's feats is Sengoku iirc, but that doesn't mean anything in terms of scaling. Weakened Ace was also roughly comparable to Aokiji in speed with normal attacks, so Egghead Kizaru and him should be even at full power. However, Ace's normal attacks are all very much FTL, and Kizaru's ranged attacks are almost all LS or just a little FTL.

Now, we get to the LS conversation. Kizaru wins there.

Next up is Durability. I'll give Kizaru this one, but it shouldn't be that much different.

Stamina is here to save the day, woo-hoo. I'll give it to Kizaru, but it should be noted that Ace scaled off fighting Jinbe for 5 days in his first fight with Whitebeard, he did it 100 times, then he got even stronger.

Range! Ace has 10km, he wins.

Equipment: Den Den Mushi vs knife, pretty even, but the Den Den Mushi not being fireproof means Ace has better gear.

Buso: Kizaru

Kenbun: Ace is really good with it, and Kiz has no feats.

Hao: Ace

Experience: Kizaru has more, but Ace has been in more fights where he actually had to try.

Skill: Unknown, we can't really quantify either.

Intelligence: Kizaru.

Basically, I think this is a really close fight, but Ace has the advantage in terms of powers, and his Haoshoku would give him time to actually land a hit in the middle of the fight.
Click to expand...
Kizaru destroys wtf

He has far better AP: Clashing with Gear 5 Luffy and KOing Gear 4 Luffy with a single attack
Far better speed: Easily outmaneuvering Whitebeard, faster than Snakeman Luffy.
Better Buso
Relative Kenbun
Hao is a non-factor due to the lack of Advanced Hao from Ace
Far better durability: Nearly having his neck broken by a non-amped punch form Blackbeard, nearly getting knocked out by a Gura punch from Whitebeard vs easily blocking hits from Gear 4 and Gear 5 Luffy, and taking a Star Gun without much external injuries (seems to be unable to move because of Saturn?)
Far better Hax: Clones??? Danmaku??? Heat???

It's really not close here. Ace doesn't have a single stat above Kizaru, let alone a viable wincon.
 
Stamina is here to save the day, woo-hoo. I'll give it to Kizaru, but it should be noted that Ace scaled off fighting Jinbe for 5 days in his first fight with Whitebeard, he did it 100 times, then he got even stronger.
Click to expand...
Ace should have the better stamina between them
 
Kachon123 said:
Clashing with Gear 5 Luffy and KOing Gear 4 Luffy with a single attack
Click to expand...
Never happened
Kachon123 said:
faster than Snakeman Luffy.
Click to expand...
With acceleration
Kachon123 said:
vs easily blocking hits from Gear 4 and Gear 5 Luffy, and taking a Star Gun without much external injuries (seems to be unable to move because of Saturn?)
Click to expand...
Only blocked gear 4 attack, and it wasn't easily... Kizaru view them as quite powerful

He got one shot by gear 5, he didn't tank anything and saturn himself said it was because of luffy/nika fruit

Otherwise everything else ok
 
MonkeyOfLife said:
Never happened
Click to expand...
Yes it did.
MonkeyOfLife said:
With acceleration
Click to expand...
He was easily reacting to and blocking attacks from Snakeman Luffy, and was even able to dodge hundreds of meters away before Luffy noticed (this was without acceleration).
MonkeyOfLife said:
Only blocked gear 4 attack, and it wasn't easily... Kizaru view them as quite powerful
Click to expand...
Just because Kizaru acknowledged Luffy as strong, that doesn't mean he wasn't doing so easily. Also, he did block attacks from Gear 5 Luffy.
MonkeyOfLife said:
He got one shot by gear 5
Click to expand...
This is a cope. He got PUT DOWN by an amped attack from Gear 5 Luffy. He clearly is not done. Especially when we compare Luffy and Kizaru's current conditions, it's clear that at the very least, Kizaru is better off. He's not bleeding anywhere, and is literally just sitting down.

This is also ignoring the fact that Kizaru was nerfed this entire time (stating that he can't go all out in fear of destroying Vegapunk's tech, his mission being to go after Vegapunk and not necessarily defeat Luffy while Luffy was actively trying to take Kizaru out, stating that he's having mental troubles since he has to take down people he cares about like Sentomaru, Bonney, and Vegapunk)


Regardless of if you think Luffy is stronger than Kizaru or not (I personally do), it's impossible to argue that Kizaru is far inferior to any form of Luffy that isn't named Gear 5, and that alone puts him way above Ace.
 
Kachon123 said:
Yes it
Click to expand...
Luffy vs lasers
Kachon123 said:
did.
Click to expand...
1092-017.png

Luffy himself said it only pushed luffy away and also only states that the barrier damaged him... So no
Kachon123 said:
He was easily reacting to and blocking attacks from Snakeman Luffy
Click to expand...
By standing still and shooting...
Kachon123 said:
and was even able to dodge hundreds of meters away before Luffy noticed (this was without acceleration).
Click to expand...
Luffy did notice, just was confused why he flew away... And of course turning to something as small as photons and running away will be insanely hard to hit... And still luffy didn't even try to, he stopped the attack and didn't continue attacking once he flew away
Kachon123 said:
Just because Kizaru acknowledged Luffy as strong, that doesn't mean he wasn't doing so easily.
Click to expand...
1092-010.png

He called his gear 4 punch very powerful stuff and we're seen him shaking from it... So no he wasn't easily blocking it at all
Kachon123 said:
This is a cope. He got PUT DOWN by an amped attack from Gear 5 Luffy.
Click to expand...
One shot and left him immobilized/Actual KO
Kachon123 said:
He clearly is not done. Especially when we compare Luffy and Kizaru's current conditions, it's clear that at the very least, Kizaru is better off. He's not bleeding anywhere, and is literally just sitting down.
Click to expand...
getting concussed has nothing to do with bleeding and he's sitting because he can't do anything else as he's still recovering from the attack... That's how concussions work
Luffy is tired and exhausted, kizaru is hurt... Not comparable
Kachon123 said:
This is also ignoring the fact that Kizaru was nerfed this entire time (stating that he can't go all out in fear of destroying Vegapunk's tech, his mission being to go after Vegapunk and not necessarily defeat Luffy while Luffy was actively trying to take Kizaru out, stating that he's having mental troubles since he has to take down people he cares about like Sentomaru, Bonney, and Vegapunk)
Click to expand...
I'm going to view this as cap until I've seen proof

It's viewed as an actual match up between luffy and kizaru from an outside source
dlHwOok_-_Imgur.png

四皇〝麦わら〟VS海軍大将〝黄猿〟!!
———————————
Fourth Emperor "Mugwara" vs Navy General "Yellow Monkey"!
Click to expand...
so until proof saying he's nerfed or holding back and shit will just cap, especially when he used a charged up acceleration attack as well
 
Last edited:
No one is biased towards Kizaru 😭 I literally said that I believe that Luffy is stronger than he is.

I just think that it's disingenuous to say that Kizaru is far below Luffy, and even worse to put him in the same discussion as Ace.
 
Kachon123 said:
Kizaru destroys wtf

He has far better AP: Clashing with Gear 5 Luffy and KOing Gear 4 Luffy with a single attack
Click to expand...
He has better AP, but typically just with his light techniques. Also, he didn't KO Luffy, he sent him flying through the barriers, and then Luffy came back through the barriers. Besides, you provided 2 examples. One was of Luffy not hitting him, and one was of him kicking a blinded Luffy(btw, why does launching a guy with a kick count as an AP feat for Kizaru, but not Marco?)
Kachon123 said:
Far better speed: Easily outmaneuvering Whitebeard, faster than Snakeman Luffy.
Click to expand...
Outmaneuvering Sickbeard is not that much better than scaling off Kuzan while weakened, or intercepting Akainu's attack at a speed that is absolutely comparable or higher.
Kachon123 said:
Better Buso
Click to expand...
Yes.
Kachon123 said:
Relative Kenbun
Click to expand...
No. He has no Kenbun feats, and Ace is shown to be very good with Kenbun.
Kachon123 said:
Hao is a non-factor due to the lack of Advanced Hao from Ace
Click to expand...
It's enough to slow him down from a split instant.
Kachon123 said:
Far better durability: Nearly having his neck broken by a non-amped punch form Blackbeard
Click to expand...
Didn't BB yank him over with Gravity beforehand?
Kachon123 said:
nearly getting knocked out by a Gura punch from Whitebeard
Click to expand...
Years before his peak
Kachon123 said:
vs easily blocking hits from Gear 4
Click to expand...
Through speed
Kachon123 said:
and Gear 5 Luffy
Click to expand...
No he wasn't, G5 is explicitly superior
Kachon123 said:
and taking a Star Gun without much external injuries
Click to expand...
He literally got knocked out, Luffy won, cope.
Kachon123 said:
Far better Hax: Clones??? Danmaku??? Heat???
Click to expand...
Proof lasers can damage fire?
 
SlendVeny said:
Bro, you acted like Kizaru took the White Star Gun completely fine while Luffy got onetapped by a single kick.
Click to expand...
Kizaru didn’t one tap luffy at all he got knocked back heavily and was damaged boy the barriers doubt kizaru kick did much too luffy.
 
I genuinely think people underestimate the Whitebeard Commanders. I don't think most of them are Yonkou level, or can beat Kizaru, but the best among them aren't just getting annihilated by him.

Jozu was fighting Aokiji, he only last because he got taken by surprise and doesn't have resistance to being frozen(Idk why people treat Aokiji freezing people as him AP stomping them)

Vista doesn't really have much to scale off, we don't know what was going on with Mihawk. We do know he can cut Akainu, but that was one hit, we didn't see much.

Marco isn't someone I want to bring up, because I am very tired of hearing about Queen's bullet scaling.

And I genuinely believe Ace to be the strongest commander to ever be in the force. Except one.

Because the strongest WB commander is KOZUKI ODEN!! My mans is among the best of the best swordsmen. This guy is top 10 commanders in any pirate crew ever, and Kizaru certainly isn't clearing half of that top 10 list. I mean, could he beat Oden? Maybe, but he's dying afterward imo.
 
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MonkeyOfLife said:
Hmm? It doesn't need to be condensed?

If kizaru shoots a laser at a random logia, he'll get hit

It's kinda similar to how zoro cut monet with the flying slash
Click to expand...
Flying slashes are different, that's physical matter, the air, coming directly out of the solid sword. I suppose you could argue that he can just override the Logia Power solely through having that level of Haki without coating anything in it, though.
 
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