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One Piece Discussion Thread

@Damage Madara was stabbed by Zetsu and by a sword. Goku was hurt by a bullet when as a kid, he could tank them without visible damage. Naruto was brought down by a punch from his daughter. Bleach has many inconsistencies as well. It's fiction. They use fiction logic. To downplay One Piece because it does what most other mangas do is hypocritical. Also, you forget the fact that Haki could have been applied to the bullets.
 
Sword guy Z said:
@Damage Madara was stabbed by Zetsu and by a sword. Goku was hurt by a bullet when as a kid, he could tank them without visible damage. Naruto was brought down by a punch from his daughter. Bleach has many inconsistencies as well. It's fiction. They use fiction logic. To downplay One Piece because it does what most other mangas do is hypocritical. Also, you forget the fact that Haki could have been applied to the bullets.
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It would only be hypocritical if I had no problems with other series.

And the use of Haki on bullets isn't something I'm ignoring, it's just that nobody in-verse has been stated to do it yet (except likely Ben Beckman).
 
@Damage Haki was stated to be able to be applied to weapons. And if you are thinking of projectiles, Haki has been shown to be applicable to them as well with the Kuja and their Haki imbued bows and arrows. Those were the Kuja. Big Mom is a Yonko and Sanji recognized the people gathered as all being fighters. To be considered more than fodder to Sanji, they'd at least need Haki. So Haki on bullets isn't really that unbelievable.
 
When was this ?

In Dragon Ball Super, when Goku was getting mugged.

Filler, Bullets are not a threat in DBS like they are in One Piece by any stretch of imagination, also bullets having an effect on a 4D being is just strange.
 
Sword guy Z said:
@Damage Haki was stated to be able to be applied to weapons. And if you are thinking of projectiles, Haki has been shown to be applicable to them as well with the Kuja and their Haki imbued bows and arrows. Those were the Kuja. Big Mom is a Yonko and Sanji recognized the people gathered as all being fighters. To be considered more than fodder to Sanji, they'd at least need Haki. So Haki on bullets isn't really that unbelievable.
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I didn't say it was unbelievable, and I accept that Haki can be used on bullets; I'm just noting that nobody in the series yet has been noted to do it and saying that any random fodder can apply Haki to bullets is a bit of stretch.
 
I said this in another thread, but it's more like One Piece characters are mostly weak to piercing and slashing damage without some form of defense mechanism, as is the case with verses like Naruto (and many others). Except with things like Tekkai / Busoshoku Haki, and chakra cloaks / defenses like lightning armor and Ribcage Susanoo. I don't think it should be used as a reason to downgrade the verse. In Bleach, something like this isn't possible due to reiatsu, except the characters are caught off-guard.

What confuses me is why Oda still makes guns somehow relevant when he tries to put out light speed stuff. Does he think bullets are comparable in speed to light or something? I don't even know. Either way, the characters from early on in the series have been shown to react to, dodge and deflect bullets easily, so it might be more like Oda doesn't know what he's doing in this case? It'd make sense if Haki was applied to the bullets though.
 
When was this ?

In Dragon Ball Super, when Goku was getting mugged.

Filler, Bullets are not a threat in DBS like they are in One Piece by any stretch of imagination, also bullets having an effect on a 4D being is just strange.

Ok, first of all it wasn't a filler. You could have just called it inconsistent or PIS. Second, everyone needs to stop with this notion that Goku or anyone in DBS is a 4D being. Goku cannot control, manipulate, or interact with time in any way. People are just taking Jiren barely moving through a hax time skip ability too far. Whis, an angel stronger than Jiren, Goku, and Beerus could only rewind time for a limited amount of time (5 minutes if I remember correctly) and can't do it again. A true 4D being would beat Goku and Jiren. They made it to low 2C with just physical power and energy alone.
 
I already stated that we can not use KE. and the current calc is wanked anyways. The mid tiers will be downgraded to 7-B soon enough.
 
@cin: What do you think about merging all of the profiles from fishman island to dressrossa as no significant increases could have happened in the space of 3 days ?
 
It is also quite silly that Luffy only went from 7-c to high 7-c in the space of years but became low 6-b in a matter of hours.
 
CinCameron20 said:
1) It's not just One Piece that does this with guns... Dragon Ball Super, Jojo, and many other verses that are FTL still have guns as a threat in some regard.
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The best example would be Star Wars where 7-c starfighters are portrayed as serious threats to characters we consider 4-A.
 
LordWhis said:
It is also quite silly that Luffy only went from 7-c to high 7-c in the space of years but became low 6-b in a matter of hours.
Click to expand...


No. This are different arcs, during Fish Man island Luffy was extremely casual. Same for Punk Hazard, it's Dressrosa which is where the low 6-B feat came from. This is where Luffy really had to try hard which justifies his rating. Pretty simple.
 
Well that proves my point, if his strength was the same throughout and he was simply not trying, what is the point of separate profiles ?
 
Because they're separate arcs. Whis, in Punk Hazard and Fish Man island there wasn't any low 6-B feat. Again Luffy was holding back.
 
But, if he was holding back that means he could have performed a low 6-b feat in FI and PH, which makes those 2 keys superfluous ?
 
Luffy didn't have to do much to justify his rating... It's only down from saying Doflamingo's Birdcage is Low 6-B therefore his Black Knight is Low 6-B (something I personally disagree with) therefore Luffy is Low 6-B for destroying the Black Knight with a Jet Gatling.

The reason for why I disagree with it, is because though the Birdcage did originate from the remains of Doflamingo's earlier Black Knight, that doesn't mean that all of Doffy's strings are the same strength and have the same power behind them. The Birdcage appears to me to be a very special technique with incredibly cutting power (enough even cut through the signals of the Den-Den Mushi). I don't think every single one of Doffy's attacks has the same power behind them as the Birdcage (something which took hundreds of fighters working together to even slow down).

When Doflamingo shoots a String Bullet, does that String Bullet have Low 6-B attack potency just because his ultimate technique the Birdcage does?

The meteors falling onto the Birdcage is a bit sketchy as well. The strings only tank a small portion of the overall meteorite since they slice cleanly through it; I don't know how to explain it exactly but it's not like the meteor struck it and was deflected and bounced off. The meteor was just sliced seemingly without slowing down. This seems to be to be dure to the incredible cutting power it has; not its overwhelming durability.

To put it another way; if Fujitora did bring down a meteor on top of a Black Knight; would the Black Knight just tank it and be completely unharmed? That seems off to because Law and Doffy both had to defend themselves from a much smaller meteor earlier in the arc.
 
@damage: God threads are certaintly more durable than the birdcage and g4 Luffy broke them, we can backwards scales base Luffy to low 6-b from that.
 
LordWhis said:
@damage: God threads are certaintly more durable than the birdcage and g4 Luffy broke them, we can backwards scales base Luffy to low 6-b from that.
Click to expand...
What makes you think they're more durable than the Birdcage? Just because they're the last attack Doflamingo used? That doesn't mean they're more powerful than the island-spanning Birdcage.
 
1: Black Knight is made from Doffy, Black Knight put up that birdcage easily and Doflamingo is superior to the Black Knight. Luffy can destroy said Black Knight and harm Doffy himself. The justification is more than enough, don't try to downplay..


2: Whenever Doffy can create a Black Knight like nothing and said Black Knight can bring up the birdcage like nothing then yes, they'd all be low 6-B threads. Simple logic.


3: Yes.


4: You clearly don't know how calculations work. Not gonna explain this to you.


5: Likely so, Occams Razor comes into play here. If the Birdcage can tank the KE of those Meteorites then so can Doffy and his Black Knight. This is blatant downplay and it's enough.
 
LordWhis said:
Awakened strings > base strings.
Click to expand...
The proof of which is absolutely zero...

> Luffy can destroy said Black Knight and harm Doffy himself.

So Kyros, Jeet and Abdullah are all Low 6-B as well then. And Bellamy is Low 6-B for harming Luffy, got it.

And Cavendish is Low 6-B for blocking Doflamingo's String Bullets, right?

And it goes on and on... It's just inconsistent scaling.

Just because Doflamingo made the Birdcage from the Black Knight's remains, doesn't make the durability of the Black Knight itself Low Country level.

> Don't try to downplay..

Somebody has to be the Devil's Advocate to make sure there is some balance. Otherwise we could just throw everything out and say everyone in One Piece is country-level.

> Likely so, Occams Razor comes into play here. If the Birdcage can tank the KE of those Meteorites then so can Doffy and his Black Knight.

The Birdcage 'tanked' it by cutting through the meteor. The Black Knight wouldn't be able to do that.
 
Doflamingo's ultimate technique isn't Bird-Cage lol wtf.

Not to mention how his bird-cage clearly doesn't have Haki imbued into it unlike his God-Thread attack.

And yes, Bullet String should have Low 6-B AP since it pierced straight through Law, who can take hits from both Doffy and Fuji. Someone like Cavendish blocking them is an outlier, sadly.

I don't think you understand how the bird-cage calc was handled. If the velocity of the meteorite was slowed down, or even stopped, Doflamingo would fully scale to 6-B. We scale based on how much of the meteorite touched the cage.
 
> Doflamingo's ultimate technique isn't Bird-Cage lol wtf.

In terms of portrayal it is his most far-reaching and destructive technique. In order to simply stop it closing it took the combined efforts of hundreds of fighters.

Yes, it doesn't have Haki imbued into it but it's still got more showing than his God-Thread attack. (Doffy puts Haki on his regular old slashing attacks too, does that make them more ultimate than the Birdcage?)

> We scale based on how much of the meteorite touched the cage.

But since each string is extremely thin, and the meteor was cut into huge chunks (not finely sliced into hundreds of pieces), doesn't that mean only a tiny portion of the meteor actually touched the cage?

> And yes, Bullet String should have Low 6-B AP since it pierced straight through Law, who can take hits from both Doffy and Fuji. Someone like Cavendish blocking them is an outlier, sadly.

That's inconsistent. You can't use a feat to elevate one character while saying it is complete outlier for another character. Either his strings have Low 6-B AP or they don't. Either Cavendish blocked the strings or he didn't. Which is it?

That's like saying Bellamy punching Luffy (who had Haki on) is an outlier. You can't dismiss every single antifeat in the verse.

Are Smoker and Sanji Low 6-B for surviving hits from Doffy? They must be Low 6-B attacks, right? So therefore if they didn't take severe damage from them, they must be Low 6-B too.
 
I'm not bitter; I just don't like being accused of downplaying when from point of view the justifications for some profiles are based on weak evidence.

Like, if I thought that the profiles were being underrated and that the characters were much stronger than they are on the profiles, then I would be arguing for that with the same fervor.

Just because I think some characters should be downgraded doesn't mean I'm against the verse, or biased, or trying to downplay, or I don't know anything.

And I don't know if you're actually concerned or if it's another distraction tactic like "Hey, this guy seems pretty upset, therefore all of his points are invalid."

Not accusing you of that, but I know that many people on this site are resistant to change when it comes to their favorite series or characters. That's why I can find it frustrating sometimes to talk to people about revisions; you understand?
 
Wew


> Using 7-B characters "taking." attacks from Doffy despite them being blatant outliers.


Damage, it's not inconsistent whenever Doffy can stomp those characters. You are making this harder on yourself. Doffy stomped Smoker and Sanji. Cavendish blocking attacks from Doffy is an outlier. I'm not sure if you know how things work here. All of Doffys strings are low 6-B. You really need to stop with the extreme downplay. I won't get into the calc itself since you very Cleary don't understand how they work. It was reviewed and accepted by our calc team, it's legit.
 
I understand how things work here. I disagree that you can dismiss every antifeat as an outlier.

If every single string attack from Doffy is Low 6-B, then someone blocking a string attack must be Low 6-B. That's just extremely basic logic.

Now, if somebody blocks an attack that is Low 6-B but there are obvious reasons why that person can't be Low 6-B there are two options:

1) Pretend it never happened.

2) Accept that the attack wasn't Low 6-B.

I'm just suggesting we should try considering the second option.
 
It's not an antifeat. 7-B's blocking a low 6-B's attack is the text book definition of an outlier. And it's consistent whenever Doffy can stomp them.


I think you forgot about the third and most likely option..


3) It's an outlier.


Simple as that. But since you very cleary don't believe in outliers I'll drop this.
 
Knight, outliers do exist. I do acknowledge that. I'm saying that this particular circumstance is not an outlier for a pretty simple reason: Doflamingo's bullet string does not have Low 6-B attack potency. That immiediately resolves it by explaining how Cavendish was able to block it; the answer is the attack wasn't as strong as you think it is.

EDIT: I also think it's kinda funny that you can instantly dismiss Cavendish blocking Doflamingo's bullet string as an outlier, but Doflamingo's Birdcage cutting through several huge meteors is completely fine. (I suspect it is because the latter is the whole reason why so many characters are rated as Low-Country level).
 
I'm surprised that Sanji beating Luffy up in the early parts of Whole Cake Island hasn't been brought up? Or is that dismissed as an outlier too?
 
It's not an outlier per say, but we don't know how to handle it. That event was entirely situational and it's clear Luffy wasn't trying. So it's plot induced stupidity
 
Bro, those "7-B" characters are still 7-A. >_>

Well, I didn't know the Low 6-B stuff was this controversial. But I do remember the thing with Sanji was rejected because of what Knight said + Luffy wasn't using Haki or something.
 
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