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One Piece: 2023 Mid-High Tier Redux

Damage3245 said:
I can see how it could be seen that way, but I think it's not drawn in the right place if that was what Oda intended. It looks like it drawn as being creating from Luffy's arm, not his fist.
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That just looks like it expanded from his overly exaggerated fist’s impact point, not that it came behind his fist
 
I'm not entirely sure now overall pretty neutral. Both sides between Damage and KingTempest make good points in my eyes.
 
Lemme guess
“Where he currently scales, possibly where KT thinks he should scale?”
 
Damage3245 said:
I can see how it could be seen that way, but I think it's not drawn in the right place if that was what Oda intended. It looks like it drawn as being creating from Luffy's arm, not his fist.
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The uncolored manga doesn't even show the shockwave BEHIND the fist like the colored version seems to imply. It shows the shockwave between the sword and the fist, with the fist being more faint for being obscured behind said shockwave, rather than ahead of it like it would be if uncompressed.
Once that fist fully shot out, the actual shockwave was at luffy's bicep
 
Eseseso said:
Nice catch, that seems about right.
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Plus iirc doffy says it raises his power several times "beyond it's LIMIT", meaning the limit of what Luffy could previously output with direct hits (maybe excluding G3 since Doffy never took direct blows), so it should scale above G2's maximum.
 
SnookB said:
Plus iirc doffy says it raises his power several times "beyond it's LIMIT", meaning the limit of what Luffy could previously output with direct hits (maybe excluding G3 since Doffy never took direct blows), so it should scale above G2's maximum.
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We went over this before and that's not what Doflamingo meant.
 
Also the only way for Luffy's attack being already uncompressed makes sense is if Luffy has TWO levels of compression. There's no reason a second shockwave would be behind his arm unless he retracted and shot out again, which is obviously not the case.
His fist never left its compressed state UNTIL it one shot the Cracker soldier.
 
SnookB said:
Also the only way for Luffy's attack being already uncompressed makes sense is if Luffy has TWO levels of compression. There's no reason a second shockwave would be behind his arm unless he retracted and shot out again, which is obviously not the case.
His fist never left its compressed state UNTIL it one shot the Cracker soldier.
Click to expand...
Nobody said there was a second shockwave.
 
We know Cracker's pretzel attack alone generates that impact shockwave
Screenshot_41.png


Whereas Luffy's Kong Gun showed its shockwave after the fist launched out.
Either the impact was from the pretezel attack, or Luffy generated two shockwaves all by himself, which has never once occured before or after.
 
SnookB said:
Whereas Luffy's Kong Gun showed its shockwave after the fist launched out.
Either the impact was from the pretezel attack, or Luffy generated two shockwaves all by himself, which has never once occured before or after.
Click to expand...
Looking at the black-and-white panel, the shockwave doesn't look like a generation of their clash to me and it's the same shockwave as seen in the next page; all coming from Luffy's decompression.

I've given other evidence in the form of the anime version of the scene and Luffy's fist looking like it isn't recessed into its body.

While the staff who have commented have been neutral or leaning towards my side, I would prefer to settle this with a compromise with KT.
 
Damage3245 said:
I've given other evidence in the form of the anime version of the scene and Luffy's fist looking like it isn't recessed into its body.
Click to expand...
Can we stop talking about the anime? We've already made it clear that the anime can contradict instances in the manga and isn't MUCH reliable outside of timeframes for the most part.
Damage3245 said:
Looking at the black-and-white panel, the shockwave doesn't look like a generation of their clash to me and it's the same shockwave as seen in the next page; all coming from Luffy's decompression.
Click to expand...
By your logic Cracker's attack magically lost its shockwave when it generated it previous times consistently, then. If that shockwave is Luffy's decompression.
And again, if that's Luffy's shockwave then Cracker stopped a decompression and Luffy had to restart or stacked another, because the second shockwave is drawn different/consistent with Luffy's other compression attacks with the hole in the center.

Saying Luffy's fist wasn't decompressed includes the gymnastics of:
Cracker generated no shockwave whereas he does everytime before
Luffy generated 2 shockwaves and can stack compressions
Their clash had literally NO IMPACT which Oda draws every damn time

Whereas saying it wasn't fully compressed includes nothing but:
Cracker clashed with it, then it compressed and overpowered him.

I'll take the option with less leaps than a compromise for Ifs.
 
SnookB said:
Can we stop talking about the anime? We've already made it clear that the anime can contradict instances in the manga and isn't MUCH reliable outside of timeframes for the most part.
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I don't think this is a case where it contradicts the manga though.

SnookB said:
I'll take the option with less leaps than a compromise for Ifs.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, but I'll stick with my preferred option for now.
 
Tangentially related note but, can someone sort out which calcs on the Verse page are used for scaling and put the rest in a Supporting Calcs tabs?
 
ElajRuengies said:
Tangentially related note but, can someone sort out which calcs on the Verse page are used for scaling and put the rest in a Supporting Calcs tabs?
Click to expand...
vsbattles.fandom.com

One Piece

For detailed information about this series from the One Piece Wiki you can click here. One Piece is the world's most popular manga series of all time.[1] It is published in Shonen Jump and is written and drawn by Eiichiro Oda. It is an Action Adventure story about Monkey D. Luffy, a pirate who...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

There's a scaling section
 
MonkeyOfLife said:
vsbattles.fandom.com

One Piece

For detailed information about this series from the One Piece Wiki you can click here. One Piece is the world's most popular manga series of all time.[1] It is published in Shonen Jump and is written and drawn by Eiichiro Oda. It is an Action Adventure story about Monkey D. Luffy, a pirate who...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

There's a scaling section
Click to expand...
That still doesn't change how the Calcs Section is cluttered with Secondary Calcs that don't scale to anyone...
 
Damage3245 said:
Can we settle on "At least 2.74, possibly 7.4" for WCI G4 Luffy so we can see about getting these revisions applied?
Click to expand...
How exactly would this even look on the profile?

I'm guessing you'll only have one 6-C tiering for WCI G4 Luffy, so will you explain the possible differential in the explanation itself or...?
 
Deceived3596 said:
How exactly would this even look on the profile?

I'm guessing you'll only have one 6-C tiering for WCI G4 Luffy, so will you explain the possible differential in the explanation itself or...?
Click to expand...
If you mean in the AP section itself, something like:

At least Large Mountain level (At least as strong as before), possibly Island level (It is possible that Gear 4 Luffy's strength briefly matched the force of Cracker's attack prior to his Kong Gun decompressing and overwhelming Cracker's biscuit soldier)

A note could be appended onto it explaining it further.

SnookB said:
The manga's been contradicted with less. If it showed a sequence that the manga didn't then it's unreliable
Click to expand...
What I'm arguing uses both the manga and anime.
 
SnookB said:
Again, the anime interpertation pretty much adds the decompression whereas the manga doesn't until the fist is out. That's not the same
Click to expand...
I get that perspective, which is why I'm happy with a "possibly" rating, but that's also not the way I see the manga panel.
 
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