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To be noted, he has to take off his pseudo-shell first to emit the passive heat. If we go by SBA, he should start in that form (as it is his strongest), but nevertheless.
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Nuova Shenron vs Beerus
- Thread starter pineappleman
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #42
i'd like to point out that beerus has only ever pointed and erased people standing still right next to him. You've got Zamasu who Beerus had already grabbed before-hand, and the Arale episode ghost who straight up thought he was immortal and wouldn't be affected.
Nova is going to 'dodge' that
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He grabbed Zamasu's hand because he used it to attack. In both instances the effect was instant and seemingly unavoidable, they couldn't do anything to escape it.
Saying he is doesn't mean he is when it realistically wouldn't work. Evidence please. Beerus senses that Nova is stronger, Nova can't sense Beerus and stays back wearily, Beerus points at Nova, he gets confused, Beerus says Hakai, GG.
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If that's the starting form this is bordering on a stomp in Beerus' favor kekw.
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It doesn't matter if he can't touch Beerus, which he can't. Being hotter than the Sun doesn't mean he is a star, the range of the heat isn't that massive, and these kinds of characters/abilities have always been overrated.
Beerus definitely resists that level of heat, but it isn't needed for him to win this anyways.
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Bruh, he literally doesn't have feats near this level.
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Again, for Nova to have a chance would require assumptions of how both characters will act, assumptions that don't line up with how they act in canon.
Beerus is gonna Hakai almost instantly, whereas Nova isn't just going to charge right in either, and doesn't know what Hakai is.
Beerus is gonna Hakai almost instantly, whereas Nova isn't just going to charge right in either, and doesn't know what Hakai is.
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Nova is gonna stand still and observe Beerus or attack from range, Beerus is gonna use Hakai and win, or dodge then use Hakai and win.
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- Thread starter
- #50
Both cases were against people uncountably weaker against him and point blank.
There isn't even proof that Beerus can use that move in long range, seeing as he's only used it at point blank range.
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- Thread starter
- #51
How is that off-topic? If he can't resist that heat, he isn't even Hakaing in the first place which is your argument
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Why it's off topic?
I mean,if Beerus gets hit by Nouva's heat he dies, lol
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And Beerus is going to use it even faster against an opponent uncountably stronger than him.
He's going to use it when they get closer to each other but still keep his distance as much as needed. The proof that he can use it long range is that blatantly inferior GoD's have used a weaker version of the same technique at a longer range.
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- Thread starter
- #54
You yourself said that Nuova would begin by attacking from range, and any of his attacks potentially one-shot Beerus.
What are you refering to? Sidra nuking the city?
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It's off-topic because he doesn't need to be able to tank Nova's heat to win and was addressing a topic unrelated to this thread. Because what's important to these threads is what's on the profiles, not actual logic and what can be proven. If a character has soul hax but it isn't listed on the profile it can't be applied to a versus thread. Anyways, you overestimate his heat's passive range. Do you think Beerus is gonna melt just being within viewing distance or something?
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If Beerus points at Nova and says a word he dies lol.
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The same we can say about Beerus's Heat resistance to the Sun
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If Hakai is too short range, Beerus is going to get closer. I said Nova would start by either standing still and defensively waiting, or attacking from range, if not a mix of both. Any of his attacks potentially one-shot Beerus, whereas Beerus has one attack that WILL one-shot Nova when he uses it.
Sidra nuking the city, Toppo's many Hakai blasts that travel across the entire tournament arena.
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Which was my point.
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Again, the only argument for Nova has to assume the mindsets of the characters is in a specific state. Without that assumption it's virtually impossible for him to win this due to Hakai.
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Nuova is not hotter than the sun lol. 6,000 C is surface star level.
Well, if you want to be generous and disregard the profiles for a second, at best you could say Beerus fully resists the hottest region of the core, the Bullen discontinuity, where temperatures reach 6,000 C.
Beerus' heat resistance would also by default scale far above post SSG BoG Goku in SSJ1/Base who pushed back a high energy mass which that was going to evaporate anything that comes near it, for example the Earth, which would come out to above 1800 C.
I'll just vote inconclusive tbh. Nuova can one shot with literally anything, and can apparently fry Beerus, while Beerus can sense his intent and Hakai him with a gesture.
Well, if you want to be generous and disregard the profiles for a second, at best you could say Beerus fully resists the hottest region of the core, the Bullen discontinuity, where temperatures reach 6,000 C.
Beerus' heat resistance would also by default scale far above post SSG BoG Goku in SSJ1/Base who pushed back a high energy mass which that was going to evaporate anything that comes near it, for example the Earth, which would come out to above 1800 C.
I'll just vote inconclusive tbh. Nuova can one shot with literally anything, and can apparently fry Beerus, while Beerus can sense his intent and Hakai him with a gesture.
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It really isn't. Your argument is based on Nuova standing by idly waiting for Beerus to kill him.
Beerus' wincon here is either hitting Nuova with a Hakai energy blast, or doing the Hakai point thing. To do the Hakai point thing he actually has to get close, and to get there he'd just get one shot by heat AoE or just regular ki blasts.
As for the Hakai energy balls, they've been shown in the show to be overpower by attacks sufficiently more powerful than them. Vegeta's attack was not near 2-C when he overpowered Toppo's Hakai ball with his ki, so the Hakai balls would just get dealt with
Voting for Nuova
Beerus' wincon here is either hitting Nuova with a Hakai energy blast, or doing the Hakai point thing. To do the Hakai point thing he actually has to get close, and to get there he'd just get one shot by heat AoE or just regular ki blasts.
As for the Hakai energy balls, they've been shown in the show to be overpower by attacks sufficiently more powerful than them. Vegeta's attack was not near 2-C when he overpowered Toppo's Hakai ball with his ki, so the Hakai balls would just get dealt with
Voting for Nuova
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I'm also voting for Nova FRA, for my reasons stated above
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Ok, let's assume for a moment Beerus feels Nova power and activates his hakai Aura. Then... what can Nova do? Because he has no resistance to EE so his attacks, his flames and everything will get erased as soon as they come near to Beerus
You can't overpower Hakai by AP alone, it was already accepted that you can't in a not so long time ago CRT.
That's not an argument. Hakai is EE and Vegeta has resistance by overpowering it.
You can't overpower Hakai by AP alone, it was already accepted that you can't in a not so long time ago CRT.
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Maaan, that's too straightforward IMAO
..I don't wanna end up downgrading Super indirectly, but..
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This was already used and discussed to downgrade Super's resistance to EE. It failed.
..I don't wanna end up downgrading Super indirectly, but..
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My guy, Nova is not going to blindly charge at an opponent he can't sense the strength of, Beerus can sense not just his strength but also his emotions, and I have never said Nova would "wait for Beerus to kill him", I said that he doesn't know what Hakai is and wouldn't try to dodge the point version, even if he could.
"he actually has to get close" How close are you trying to suggest Beerus needs to be? A few feet?
"As for the Hakai energy balls, they've been shown in the show to be overpower by attacks sufficiently more powerful than them. Vegeta's attack was not near 2-C when he overpowered Toppo's Hakai ball with his ki, so the Hakai balls would just get dealt with" I don't see that mentioned anywhere on Beerus' page. Not sure if you are aware, but in Versus Threads, what can be applied is only what is said on a profile, as we've been over in this thread. That weakness is not actually listed anywhere on the wiki, it isn't applicable here. The energy balls, in this instance, will easily kill Nova and overpower his attacks. The ironic thing is that this rule is the reason why the debate is limited to what it is, if it was an actual open discussion I'd be arguing Beerus farts and Nova gets Thanos snapped.
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Irrelevant to this thread. Make a CRT.
..I don't wanna end up downgrading Super indirectly, but..
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Anyways I vote Beerus FRA. In the end it all comes down to the votes.
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Aren't they both 2-C?
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I just wanna say that GoDs doesn't really need to get close to the Hakai gesture or point thing since we literally saw Sidra hakai an entire city from miles away. I know it's just an assumption but since Beerus has done the same exact move before just on 1 singular person and we see a similar (if not below) level GoD doing the move on a larger scale, I'd say it wouldn't be too far fetched to say he could
MrKerf
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Voting Nuova FRA.
Going by what was shown in anime, Beerus can only do Hakai up close. And while Sidra did use it on a whole city, we still don't know if Beerus can do that. Yes, he is stronger than Sidra, but it isn't about strength but about range. Otherwise, if we'd start speculating, I would've argued that, since orbs of destruction can be overpowered, hakai would simply not work on someone stronger that GoD.
Going by what was shown in anime, Beerus can only do Hakai up close. And while Sidra did use it on a whole city, we still don't know if Beerus can do that. Yes, he is stronger than Sidra, but it isn't about strength but about range. Otherwise, if we'd start speculating, I would've argued that, since orbs of destruction can be overpowered, hakai would simply not work on someone stronger that GoD.
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If it's not clear, I vote Nuova FRA
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It is the exact same technique, using the exact same source of energy, by two beings of the same class, trained by two beings of the same race, with Beerus being portrayed as vastly superior to Sidra and literally blowing away one of his Hakai balls like it was nothing. And there is no contradictory evidence at all.
I don't see why it's an "assumption" to say Beerus could also Hakai a city if a low-tier God of Destruction can. By this logic the GoD's that haven't used Hakai shouldn't even have it. It's a technique they all have by nature. It is literally their signature move. If anything, I'd say the burden of proof leans towards the other side.
I don't see why it's an "assumption" to say Beerus could also Hakai a city if a low-tier God of Destruction can. By this logic the GoD's that haven't used Hakai shouldn't even have it. It's a technique they all have by nature. It is literally their signature move. If anything, I'd say the burden of proof leans towards the other side.
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2-C is a tier in which a small detail can create a virtually infinite gap. Nuova scales to 3 universes, Beerus is at the baseline of 2-C, which is 2 universal space-time continuums. That alone makes what is practically an infinite gap in power between them due to the gap in distance between 2 universal space-time continuums and 3.
Obviously this is ludicrous from a more standard perspective and the reality is Nuova would die if he was in the path of Beerus sneezing, but that's besides the point.
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If Nuova's heat is greater than what Beerus can resist, how long will it take to kill Beerus? Since beerus just needs to say the word so unless the heat will insta kill him I am not sure how is that going to do much.
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Pretty much instantly. But his heat isn't an instant AoE kill radius thing if I remember correctly. He needs to touch Beerus with a heat attack, or just himself.
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I'm still looking for something which could counter Beerus' passive destruction aura
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Well he's never used it in character to be fair. But if he did then Nuova has no chance of winning. If that's being included Beerus stomps. Anything Nuova does as an attack is worthless as it would be destroyed on contact and if he touches Beerus it's over. Heat is irrelevant in that instance because heat, while not a visible or solid substance, is still physical energy and would be destroyed by a skin-suit energy of destruction aura on contact. If it doesn't touch Beerus directly it can't hurt him. And Nuova using melee attacks wouldn't work as Beerus wouldn't let Nuova touch him to begin with, though if he did hit him it'd be a draw. The Hakai aura would kill him and the melee attack would still kill Beerus.
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