NNT AP Revision

[ByAsura]

Now we're just repeating another argument that we already had.

What absolutely suggests this attack must be comparable to his punches? Weaker shit has hurt stronger characters before.

 

[speedster352]

Now we're just repeating another argument that we already had.

What absolutely suggests this attack must be comparable to his punches? Weaker shit has hurt stronger characters before.

That’s not the context of the fight he is trying everything he can to beat Meliodas saying otherwise is headcanon

 

[ByAsura]

That implies he's desperate and forking everything out, so why wouldn't he be launching numerous slashes to even delay/harm Meliodas when he'd literally not even got a hit at that point?

 

[speedster352]

That implies he's desperate and forking everything out, so why wouldn't he be launching numerous slashes to even delay/harm Meliodas when he'd literally done no damage at that point?

He also took Elizabeth hostage showing that his is desperate. You have to prove that his attack is weaker than himself

 

[ByAsura]

Cool, that just substantiates my point above.

I already have evidence that it's weaker than himself, and you haven't proved the negative there.

 

[speedster352]

Cool, that just substantiates my point above.

I already have evidence that it's weaker than himself, and you haven't proved the negative there.

I have it’s the same ap as him. You just have your headcanon saying that his attack was weaker than himself with no proof. What’s the proof anyway? Anyway Meliodas scales above the FC attack so what does the scaling chain look like.

 

[ByAsura]

The entire argument we had before that attacks barely stronger than himself can harm him, which you said was fine.

Why should I even have to give more than that? Characters can (and do) launch attacks weaker than themselves in the series.

 

[speedster352]

The entire argument we had before that attacks barely stronger than himself can harm him, which you said was fine.

Why should I even have to give more than that? Characters can (and do) launch attacks weaker than themselves in the series.

Yeah but you need to prove it was weaker than itself or that point is moot. It still has the same ap as himself and Meliodas scales above it.

 

[ByAsura]

So contradictory evidence doesn't matter, I guess.

 

[speedster352]

The entire argument we had before that attacks barely stronger than himself can harm him, which you said was fine.

Why should I even have to give more than that? Characters can (and do) launch attacks weaker than themselves in the series.

After Hendrickson got hit by Godeses magic he became 2x weaker

• Hendrickson can make close-range Dark Nebulae as well (context - Meliodas punched through it, and Hendrickson was likely weakened due to tanking a ton of Goddess magic beforehand)

So contradictory evidence doesn't matter, I guess.

Pretty much if it’s head canon of course. So Godeses magic can nerf a demon by 2x. Also what would the scaling chain look like now?

 

[ByAsura]

Firstly, it doesn't matter because Zeldris was continuously absorbing magic and getting his strength, magic and body recovered by the lake.

Secondly, that wasn't Hendrickson becoming 2x weaker. That was Meliodas gaining a rage amp (something you've said multiple times), at which point he was still capable of very casually damaging Meliodas, being virtually unaffected by gravity that floored him, and tanking all of the Sins' attacks without so much as a scratch (whereas Mel was half-dead).

It's not even head canon. You conceded to that part already, and are now claiming that an attack being weaker than themselves (something that exists in the series already) is head canon.

By this logic, Rhitta must be as strong as Escanor's Divine Sword just because he used it against the same opponent in the same circumstances.

The scaling chain wouldn't change because your logic is BS.

 

[speedster352]

Firstly, it doesn't matter because Zeldris was continuously absorbing magic and getting his strength, magic and body recovered by the lake.

Secondly, that wasn't Hendrickson becoming 2x weaker. That was Meliodas gaining a rage amp (something you've said multiple times), at which point he was still capable of very casually damaging Meliodas, being undamaged by gravity that floored him, and tanking all of the Sins' attacks without so much as a scratch (whereas Mel was half-dead).

It's not even head canon. You conceded to that already, and are now claiming that an attack being weaker than themselves (something that exists in the series already) is head canon.

By this logic, Rhitta must be as strong as Escanor's Divine Sword just because he used it against the same opponent in the same circumstances.

The scaling chain wouldn't change because your logic is BS.

False equivalence. Like I said Dk zeldris scales to his FC attack period and Meliodas scale above this. That’s a solid 2x multiplier. Swallow your pride and add this.

 

[ByAsura]

Not a false equivalence, at all. If it is, actually give an explanation.

Again, never said he didn't scale to the FC'd attack itself, I just said it's obviously a weaker attack than his physical abilities.

There's no pride about this (it's literally an online wiki about powerscaling). I just don't think the multiplier is correct.

Swallow your craving for any NNT upgrade and concede to my logic.

 

[Deceived3596]

The hellblaze attack that Demon King Zeldris' used against Meliodas was obviously weaker than Meliodas's punches, even after it was full countered since that didn't damage DK Zeldris while Meliodas's punches did damaged DK Zeldris before and after getting slapped up by Elizabeth's Ark.

It's quite literally shown to us and the fact Speedster's acting like it isn't is beyond dishonest on his part.

Just drop this point Speedster, you're objectively wrong about it.

 

[speedster352]

The hellblaze attack that Demon King Zeldris' used against Meliodas was obviously weaker than Meliodas's punches, even after it was full countered since that didn't damage DK Zeldris while Meliodas's punches did damaged DK Zeldris before and after getting slapped up by Elizabeth's Ark.

It's quite literally shown to us and the fact Speedster's acting like it isn't is beyond dishonest on his part.

Just drop this point Speedster, you're objectively wrong about it.

That’s not evidence. Your just saying that oh since Meliodas attacks did more damage his attack was weaker. Cool but that’s still not evidence it’s just headcanon why would he just use a weaker attack than himself all of a sudden and don’t just say because other media does it that’s a strawman. Ad hominem. Also he was weakened by the ark that he got hit by which is shown to weaken the demon clan. At this point all your doing is using the appeal to ignorance fallacy and as hominem. Next he took his FC attack and Meliodas wrecked him that’s more proof than anything but of course you would head canon it. Can 2nd for dk Zeldris at least be 2x stronger for overpowering base Meliodas who was stronger than his FC attack?

Not a false equivalence, at all. If it is, actually give an explanation.

Again, never said he didn't scale to the FC'd attack itself, I just said it's obviously a weaker attack than his physical abilities.

There's no pride about this (it's literally an online wiki about powerscaling). I just don't think the multiplier is correct.

Swallow your craving for any NNT upgrade and concede to my logic.

That’s fine just scale Meliodas above it that’s all. Is it that hard to believe Meliodas is 2x stronger than 1st form demon king? Suppressed or not isn’t a factor since we don’t know how much he held back it could be 20 percent for all we know since Meliodas didn’t want to hurt his brother. Your reasoning as to why the multiplier is wrong is weak and based on head canon and strawman. And the sad thing is that everyone will agree with you because of appeal to authority. It’s always about pride since you can’t seem to accept this but your own head canon.

 

[ByAsura]

That’s fine just scale Meliodas above it that’s all.

A weaker attack.

Is it that hard to believe Meliodas is 2x stronger than 1st form demon king?

Yes.

Suppressed or not isn’t a factor since we don’t know how much he held back it could be 20 percent for all we know since Meliodas didn’t want to hurt his brother.

Suppressed is a factor, since those same attacks could harm DK. Again with the obfuscation from the actual points I made.

Your reasoning as to why the multiplier is wrong is weak and based on head canon and strawman.

Your counter-evidence is the only thing that's weak.

Where's the strawman? You haven't actually pointed anything out.

Also, you haven't even addressed a fraction of what I've actually said in these last several comments, so it's pretty obvious what's happening here.

And the sad thing is that everyone will agree with you because of appeal to authority.

Literally nobody has said that, and your entire argument has just been this one giant appeal to incredulity about how you can't possibly believe DK Zeldris would use an attack weaker than himself against Meliodas.

It’s always about pride since you can’t seem to accept this but your own head canon.

The only one here that's unwilling to swallow their pride is you; more people, based on what they have read and nothing else, disagree with your logic.

Also, where was that appeal to authority when basically everyone who wasn't involved in the thread disagreed with massive chunks of it? You're only saying that now because it suits your own narrative.

 

[Majinere566]

When are you going to update the new chain in the op?

 

[ByAsura]

I was going to do it after this argument was concluded, but I don't see the point at this juncture.

 

[speedster352]

A weaker attack.

Yes.

Suppressed is a factor, since those same attacks could harm DK. Again with the obfuscation from the actual points I made.

Your counter-evidence is the only thing that's weak.

Where's the strawman? You haven't actually pointed anything out.

Also, you haven't even addressed a fraction of what I've actually said in these last several comments, so it's pretty obvious what's happening here.

Literally nobody has said that, and your entire argument has just been this one giant appeal to incredulity about how you can't possibly believe DK Zeldris would use an attack weaker than himself against Meliodas.

The only one here that's unwilling to swallow their pride is you; more people, based on what they have read and nothing else, disagree with your logic.

Also, where was that appeal to authority when basically everyone who wasn't involved in the thread disagreed with massive chunks of it? You're only saying that now because it suits your own narrative.

I am convinced as it stands out now DK scales to his FC attack and Meliodas scales above it. Then second form DK Zeldris is at least 2x stronger.

 

[Majinere566]

Outliers: Just because, for example, Demon King's Destroyer-amplified slashes did even less damage than his and (notice the hole in his stomach) Escanor's punches, does this mean a character shouldn't have Destroyer amps in general? No, that just means it's inconsistency, and DK should still have a 10x amp on his AP.

I don't know about him demonstrating weapon enchantment in the scans you linked here, it's like Meliodas Hellblaze against Drole, it's kind of Darkness launched out of the blades and we don't see darkness imbueded on the blade

But I'm still confused on how their normal punches did more damage. From the looks the Enchanted sword stuff spilled way more blood than the punches

 

[ByAsura]

I thought it would be, since the blade itself made contact. But I can see your logic. It doesn't really matter that it's wrong, anyway, since this is just an example (one among many, tbh).

Those were only skin deep cuts. As I showed, he punched a hole in Escanor's stomach barely after it was noon.

Also, even if it did do more damage, he still used a genuine sword to inflict those cuts. So, if he could already harm him, why are the wounds so tiny if they were amplified 10-fold? We've seen that comparable characters will at least injure characters this heavily, or even cut each other to pieces.

 

[Majinere566]

Okay that makes sense. My main concern was the whole enchantment thing

Would it be helpful if we complied a list that shows a character in 7ds using the weapon enchantment?

 

[speedster352]

I thought it would be, since the blade itself made contact. But I can see your logic. It doesn't really matter that it's wrong, anyway, since this is just an example (one among many, tbh).

Those were only skin deep cuts. As I showed, he punched a hole in Escanor's stomach barely after it was noon.

Also, even if it did do more damage, he still used a genuine sword to inflict those cuts. So, if he could already harm him, why are the wounds so tiny if they were amplified 10-fold? We've seen that comparable characters will at least injure characters this heavily, or even cut each other to pieces.

In other words? Does Escanor durabity go up tenfold?

 

[ByAsura]

In other words? Does Escanor durabity go up tenfold?

No.

Okay that makes sense. My main concern was the whole enchantment thing

Would it be helpful if we complied a list that shows a character in 7ds using the weapon enchantment?

Sure.

 

[speedster352]

No.

Sure.

Your going to make the list and the sandboxes right?

 

[ByAsura]

Yes. But I have to go to work today, so later.

 

[speedster352]

Yes. But I have to go to work today, so later.

Should dk zeldris second form at least be 2x stonger by overpowering base Meliodas and for wing him to use second demon mark?

 

[ByAsura]

No. He should just be stronger than his first form to some extent.

 

[speedster352]

No. He should just be stronger than his first form to some extent.

But he scales above base Meliodas who scales above his FC attack and probably scales above first demon mark Meliodas.

 

[ByAsura]

Bruh

 

[speedster352]

Bruh

Anyway how’s life? Any progress so far?

 

[speedster352]

Is it applicable?: As I said before, it's imbued within a weapon and increases the weapon's destructive power by imbuing it with magical traits. So, something like this or this isn't applicable. Additionally, this doesn't apply to a character's fists, as Percival could do that in the first few chapters.

Have you found any 2x multiplier in nnt?

 

[speedster352]

Destroyer-type is nearly 10x more powerful. This explicitly applies to the weapon itself when used in conjunction, not the magic imbued within, also meaning that this shouldn't be applicable to Full Counter amps.

First for DK Zeldris has crazy durability since he survived he FC attack which was named so it’s not weaker than him prison gate saber. Then he survived enchant arc and lostavnne combo so you need to up his durability. Here all the scans I have compiled.

 

[speedster352]

Bump

 

[ByAsura]

First for DK Zeldris has crazy durability since he survived he FC attack which was named so it’s not weaker than him prison gate saber.

Named = not weaker, apparently. Where was that stated?

Then he survived enchant arc and lostavnne combo so you need to up his durability. Here all the scans I have compiled.

You conveniently left out the scan where he was severely injured.

Also, magicless punches from Meliodas and Elizabeth's Ark can wreck him, so why would it make sense that he directly scales to Meliodas wielding Lostvayne + an Ark-based Enchanter amp (easily a 4 to 6x amp from those punches)? Clearly he's holding back.

 

[speedster352]

Named = not weaker, apparently. Where was that stated?

You conveniently left out the scan where he was severely injured.

Also, magicless punches from Meliodas and Elizabeth's Ark can wreck him, so why would it make sense that he directly scales to Meliodas wielding Lostvayne + an Ark-based Enchanter amp (easily a 4 to 6x amp from those punches)? Clearly he's holding back.

Still doesn’t a 2x amp still fit?

 

[ByAsura]

It's not about fitting, it's about making sense.

Anyway, there's a thread coming up about multipliers over a hundred-fold, so losing this multiplier also kind of means dodging a bullet for the revisions.

 

[speedster352]

Named = not weaker, apparently. Where was that stated?

In the Sds manga named attacks are stronger than unnamed attacks and you still have to prove it’s weaker since it should still have the same ap as him.

 

[speedster352]

It's not about fitting, it's about making sense.

Anyway, there's a thread coming up about multipliers over a hundred-fold, so losing this multiplier also kind of means dodging a bullet for the revisions.

Since Meliodas was holding back its proof that he was at least 2x stronger than DK Zeldris first form. Next his transformation surpasses base Meliodas and force him to go second demon mark another 2x amp.

 

[ByAsura]

In the Sds manga named attacks are stronger than unnamed attacks

Not stated anywhere. If it is, give proof.

But, I guess Hermit of Moments and Grieving Sage are stronger than DK Meliodas just because they have a name?

Like, just logically, why would an almost magicless Galand's named spam air strikes be comparable, let alone stronger, than his actual weapon strikes?

you still have to prove it’s weaker since it should still have the same ap as him.

I already gave evidence, speaking of which where is it stated that all named attacks are stronger than punches? You're the one making that claim here, so you need to provide some kind of tangible evidence.

Since Meliodas was holding back its proof that he was at least 2x stronger than DK Zeldris first form. Next his transformation surpasses base Meliodas and force him to go second demon mark another 2x amp.

90 billionth time.