NNT AP Revision

[speedster352]

That’s not what I was really saying. Also, the attack exploded against the cube and was reflected, so the forces is the explosion (I was never saying the blast didn’t represent 100% of the energy).

As you said here, it struck back at them. The fact that the repelled power hits both of them is proof that neither took the full brunt of the attack.

Oh, ok.

Pushed to the max would really just indicate that it’s above the other forms.

Yeah but let’s just keep the AM multipliers for all versions of Meliodas for consistency sake. Past Assualt mode Meliodas or/and post purgatory Meliodas should get a 3x amp.

Why? If anything, Meliodas had 3,000 years to become more accustomed to Assault Mode, and even used it against Escanor in the past.

Are you claiming it's stronger AP wise, or a larger amp?

Why though?

You mean to say they suddenly got a friendship amp that skyrocketed them from being vastly inferior to Chandler to surpassing Demon King, despite none of the Sins except Ban, King, Meliodas and Escanor actually doing any harm to DK throughout the entire fight?

Nice head canon. Not the stuff you like to call head canon either, actual head canon.

Also, by your logic, wouldn't Meliodas of people have gotten a friendship amp?

No he didn't. That's just called hitting someone. They were equal.

I guess PDK can blitz Escanor now, huh?

What you failed to include in that scan was the fact that PDK's arm was literally stuck inside Escanor and he couldn't move.

In fact, Escanor would have got tagged if Meliodas didn't counter vanish an attack, and was still getting hits on Escanor while stuck.

I literally showed the scan of him not getting blitzed by Escanor, just outsped while moving at a pace inferior to all the Sins.

Bruh, you were literally doing that. Yet when I do it, it's downplay.

I am talking about the larger amp. It doesn’t matter PDK couldn’t break out of Escanor hold and couldn’t block or take any of his attacks Here Here how it goes 2nd demon mark Meliodas<~PDK~the one Escanor< UTO Escanor~<Am Meliodas stop bringing the sins into this they downscale from PDK.

Yeah i think we already will apply it to profiles but it won’t really help the scaling chain

(Goated PFP)

I need some help here

 

[speedster352]

He should, and it's fine to do so.

My argument is just that this just applies to forms of Mael that were very close to noon, since he's weaker than Elizabeth, comparable to 2nd Mark and only a bit above Zeldris in the series.

This is already on the profiles, btw.

Anyway, I'm off to bed.

That would mean he scales above indura giving him a 2x amp above Elizabeth

 

[speedster352]

He should, and it's fine to do so.

My argument is just that this just applies to forms of Mael that were very close to noon, since he's weaker than Elizabeth, comparable to 2nd Mark and only a bit above Zeldris in the series.

This is already on the profiles, btw.

Anyway, I'm off to bed.

PDK was surprised by Escanor speed just as UTO Escanor was surprised by AM Meliodas speed

 

[speedster352]

I'd just say use 2x as a baseline.

3 times is the high ball right can that be used?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

3 times is the high ball right can that be used?

Better to lowball

 

[speedster352]

Better to lowball

Why exactly? I mean he clearly says 2 or 3 times so it makes no sense to just write of the 3x amp.

 

[speedster352]

Also, by your logic, wouldn't Meliodas of people have gotten a friendship amp?

I was just trying to explain the others sins keeping up it could be power of friendship. It’s just a hypothesis. Clearly AM Meliodas is compostable to UTO Escanor no matter how you put it and far surpasses him with true magic form.

 

[Majinere566]

Why exactly? I mean he clearly says 2 or 3 times so it makes no sense to just write of the 3x amp.

And it's best to use 2× since its a safer assumption until statements that allows us to use 3×

I'd also suggest a middle ground but it's safer to use the lower end

 

[speedster352]

And it's best to use 2× since its a safer assumption until statements that allows us to use 3×

I'd also suggest a middle ground but it's safer to use the lower end

Would 2.5 work?

 

[Deceived3596]

No, that wouldn't work Speedster. We can't assume some arbitrary rating like 2.5x, it's either 2x or 3x and everyone seems to want the 2x multiplier compared to the 3x multiplier, so unless you can convince others to choose the 3x multiplier we're using the 2x multiplier. Not some rando ass 2.5x multiplier you made up.

 

[speedster352]

No, that wouldn't work Speedster. We can't assume some arbitrary rating like 2.5x, it's either 2x or 3x and everyone seems to want the 2x multiplier compared to the 3x multiplier, so unless you can convince others to choose the 3x multiplier we're using the 2x multiplier. Not some rando ass 2.5x multiplier you made up.

But 2.5 works for everyone it’s the middle ground

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Speedster chill.. it's better than nothing.

 

[speedster352]

Anyway what’s left for the crt?

 

[Majinere566]

Anyway what’s left for the crt?

Enchantment stuff and whatnots

 

[Makai641001]

No, that wouldn't work Speedster. We can't assume some arbitrary rating like 2.5x, it's either 2x or 3x and everyone seems to want the 2x multiplier compared to the 3x multiplier, so unless you can convince others to choose the 3x multiplier we're using the 2x multiplier. Not some rando ass 2.5x multiplier you made up.

I want 3x to be used

But factually it’s better to use 2x for now

It’s not about what we want but what is consistant and safe

 

[Makai641001]

Speedster chill.. it's better than nothing.

Exactly

 

[speedster352]

Exactly

Should the 2x AM Multipliers apply for all versions of Meliodas or just one?

 

[ByAsura]

Yeah but let’s just keep the AM multipliers for all versions of Meliodas for consistency sake. Past Assualt mode Meliodas or/and post purgatory Meliodas should get a 3x amp.

Consistency is not really a solid reason. I just used it as support previously. What allowed Demon multipliers to be used was the fact that there's a statement.

I am talking about the larger amp.

Ok, then properly explain why it's a larger amp.

It doesn’t matter PDK couldn’t break out of Escanor hold

It wasn't a hold. His arm was stuck inside his chest. This is like saying that a sink is faster than someone because their arm got stuck in it.

couldn’t block or take any of his attacks Here

Yes, because his arm was stuck inside him and he only had one arm to do anything/very limited overall mobility, while Escanor could spam punches as he pleased.

Also, what do you mean he couldn't take any attacks? He took a **** ton with some relatively light bleeding even after losing his power to recover instantly, and his punch actually caused the side of Escanor's lip to bleed. The physical gap between them isn't huge.

Here how it goes 2nd demon mark Meliodas<~PDK~the one Escanor< UTO Escanor~<Am Meliodas stop bringing the sins into this they downscale from PDK.

PDK upscales from them, actually. Also, Gowther and Diane certainly don't.

I brought in the Sins because it outright debunks your argument, and you still haven't given a valid counterargument to it. What else do you expect, especially when you yourself did so previously to explain it away for Meliodas? The double standards and hypocrisy are real.

That would mean he scales above indura giving him a 2x amp above Elizabeth

No it wouldn't. Did you actually listen to what I said? It was the exact opposite of that.

I was just trying to explain the others sins keeping up it could be power of friendship. It’s just a hypothesis.

So head canon that makes little sense and would apply to Meliodas, killing your whole argument.

Clearly AM Meliodas is compostable to UTO Escanor no matter how you put it and far surpasses him with true magic form.

Comparable for just outspeeding him once while he was at a low level of speed. You've given me nothing but easily debunkable non-sense.

 

[speedster352]

Consistency is not really a solid reason. I just used it as support previously. What allowed Demon multipliers to be used was the fact that there's a statement.

Ok, then properly explain why it's a larger amp.

It wasn't a hold. His arm was stuck inside his chest. This is like saying that a sink is faster than someone because their arm got stuck in it.

Yes, because his arm was stuck inside him and he only had one arm to do anything/very limited overall mobility, while Escanor could spam punches as he pleased.

Also, what do you mean he couldn't take any attacks? He took a **** ton with some relatively light bleeding even after losing his power to recover instantly, and his punch actually caused the side of Escanor's lip to bleed. The physical gap between them isn't huge.

PDK upscales from them, actually. Also, Gowther and Diane certainly don't.

I brought in the Sins because it outright debunks your argument, and you still haven't given a valid counterargument to it. What else do you expect, especially when you yourself did so previously to explain it away for Meliodas? The double standards and hypocrisy are real.

No it wouldn't. Did you actually listen to what I said? It was the exact opposite of that.

So head canon that makes little sense and would apply to Meliodas, killing your whole argument.

Comparable for just outspeeding him once while he was at a low level of speed. You've given me nothing but easily debunkable non-sense.

Double standards really your bringing the sins to debunk AM Meliodas. He blitz UTO Escanor who was jumping to PDK he was even surprised by it. Next it’s necessary to keep the multipliers consistent you said that yourself.

 

[speedster352]

Consistency is not really a solid reason. I just used it as support previously. What allowed Demon multipliers to be used was the fact that there's a statement.

Ok, then properly explain why it's a larger amp.

It wasn't a hold. His arm was stuck inside his chest. This is like saying that a sink is faster than someone because their arm got stuck in it.

Yes, because his arm was stuck inside him and he only had one arm to do anything/very limited overall mobility, while Escanor could spam punches as he pleased.

Also, what do you mean he couldn't take any attacks? He took a **** ton with some relatively light bleeding even after losing his power to recover instantly, and his punch actually caused the side of Escanor's lip to bleed. The physical gap between them isn't huge.

PDK upscales from them, actually. Also, Gowther and Diane certainly don't.

I brought in the Sins because it outright debunks your argument, and you still haven't given a valid counterargument to it. What else do you expect, especially when you yourself did so previously to explain it away for Meliodas? The double standards and hypocrisy are real.

No it wouldn't. Did you actually listen to what I said? It was the exact opposite of that.

So head canon that makes little sense and would apply to Meliodas, killing your whole argument.

Comparable for just outspeeding him once while he was at a low level of speed. You've given me nothing but easily debunkable non-sense.

Since the multipliers are accepted again can you apply it to the op now?

 

[ByAsura]

Double standards really your bringing the sins to debunk AM Meliodas.

Yes, because it shows your point is bad. You're not really saying anything here, and you even said the opposite prior.

He blitz UTO Escanor who was jumping to PDK he was even surprised by it.

Bruh, I outright showed you the scan. He saw Meliodas and wasn't blitzed, just outsped.

Surprise doesn't mean Meliodas is faster, it just means he was surprised. He was also still surprised when Meliodas was just in front at normal speed.

Next it’s necessary to keep the multipliers consistent you said that yourself.

Ok, cool, then give the multiplier the remotest amount of consistency.

 

[speedster352]

Consistency is not really a solid reason. I just used it as support previously. What allowed Demon multipliers to be used was the fact that there's a statement.

Ok, then properly explain why it's a larger amp.

It wasn't a hold. His arm was stuck inside his chest. This is like saying that a sink is faster than someone because their arm got stuck in it.

Yes, because his arm was stuck inside him and he only had one arm to do anything/very limited overall mobility, while Escanor could spam punches as he pleased.

Also, what do you mean he couldn't take any attacks? He took a **** ton with some relatively light bleeding even after losing his power to recover instantly, and his punch actually caused the side of Escanor's lip to bleed. The physical gap between them isn't huge.

PDK upscales from them, actually. Also, Gowther and Diane certainly don't.

I brought in the Sins because it outright debunks your argument, and you still haven't given a valid counterargument to it. What else do you expect, especially when you yourself did so previously to explain it away for Meliodas? The double standards and hypocrisy are real.

No it wouldn't. Did you actually listen to what I said? It was the exact opposite of that.

So head canon that makes little sense and would apply to Meliodas, killing your whole argument.

Comparable for just outspeeding him once while he was at a low level of speed. You've given me nothing but easily debunkable non-sense.

Since the multipliers are accepted again can you apply it to the op now?

 

[speedster352]

Yes, because it shows your point is bad. You're not really saying anything here, and you even said the opposite prior.

Bruh, I outright showed you the scan. He saw Meliodas and wasn't blitzed, just outsped.

Surprise doesn't mean Meliodas is faster, it just means he was surprised. He was also still surprised when Meliodas was just in front at normal speed.

Ok, cool, then give the multiplier the remotest amount of consistency.

Just apply the AM multipliers for all versions of Meliodas for the sake of consistency. 2nd demon mark Meliodas<PDK~the one Escanor< UTO Escanor~ AM Meliodas

 

[ByAsura]

I'll apply the Destroyer multiplier and scale Assault Mode to Tristan.

That's all I'll do for now.

Just apply the AM multipliers for all versions of Meliodas for the sake of consistency.

No. For the last time, consistency is not enough.

I would most certainly apply it if I could, but there's rules against it.

2nd demon mark Meliodas<PDK~the one Escanor< UTO Escanor~ AM Meliodas

You really love repeating this.

Also, the claim itself doesn't even make sense because (even if Escanor wasn't very obviously not at full speed) why would AM Meliodas be comparable in AP just for being faster?

 

[ByAsura]

There OP changed.

 

[speedster352]

I'll apply the Destroyer multiplier and scale Assault Mode to Tristan.

That's all I'll do for now.

No. For the last time, consistency is not enough.

I would most certainly apply it if I could, but there's rules against it.

You really love repeating this.

Also, the claim itself doesn't even make sense because (even if Escanor wasn't very obviously not at full speed) why would AM Meliodas be comparable in AP just for being faster?

Because becoming more powerful and faster means that you are stronger or comparable to your enemy as shown with Meliodas vs Galand

 

[ByAsura]

No it doesn't. Meliodas just received his unsealed power from a Goddess Amber, restoring power that was already taken from him.

Ban vs Meliodas shows that faster =/= stronger.

 

[speedster352]

I would most certainly apply it if I could, but there's rules against it.

Isn’t there rules against only using a multiplier once for a form that a character consistently has? It like super saiayan only being scaled to 50 times in the Frieza arc because that was when It was shown and there are rules against using it for other super saiyan.

No it doesn't. Meliodas just received his unsealed power from a Goddess Amber, restoring power that was already taken from him.

Ban vs Meliodas shows that faster =/= stronger.

Actually that’s different when Meliodas gets faster his is also more powerful as shown when he blitzed and one shotted amped ban.

 

[ByAsura]

Isn’t there rules against only using a multiplier once for a form that a character consistently has? It like super saiayan only being scaled to 50 times in the Frieza arc because that was when It was shown and there are rules against using it for other super saiyan.

Super Saiyan multiplier keeps it because there's a statement, not a showing in the Frieza Saga.

The showing in the Frieza saga is just why we regard the Super Saiyan multiplier statement as acceptable when the stated multipliers for SS2 and 3 are inconsistent.

Super Saiyan multipliers actually work against you here because we don't have the same multipliers from calcs and other statements for SS2 and 3 in other keys.

Actually that’s different

It's not at all different. My point was that being faster than a character doesn't simply mean they're stronger because the other character may not even have the same ratio of speed and power.

Escanor can be slower than Meliodas but stronger.

when Meliodas gets faster his is also more powerful as shown when he blitzed and one shotted amped ban.

That's just a speed/power multiplier surpassing Ban's level of speed and power, so that really has no bearing on my point and is just a sweeping generalisation.

Also, the Ban he surpassed had higher speed and power than Meliodas due to absorbing all of his power. So this isn't a case of lopsided statistics being equalised.

 

[speedster352]

Super Saiyan multiplier keeps it because there's a statement, not a showing in the Frieza Saga.

The showing in the Frieza saga is just why we regard the Super Saiyan multiplier statement as acceptable when the stated multipliers for SS2 and 3 are inconsistent.

Super Saiyan multipliers actually work against you here because we don't have the same multipliers from calcs and other statements for SS2 and 3 in other keys.

It's not at all different. My point was that being faster than a character doesn't simply mean they're stronger because the other character may not even have the same ratio of speed and power.

Escanor can be slower than Meliodas but stronger.

That's just a speed/power multiplier surpassing Ban's level of speed and power, so that really has no bearing on my point and is just a sweeping generalisation.

Also, the Ban he surpassed had higher speed and power than Meliodas due to absorbing all of his power. So this isn't a case of lopsided statistics being equalised.

I want 3x to be used

But factually it’s better to use 2x for now

It’s not about what we want but what is consistant and safe

I need some help here. Shouldn’t the 2x amp of assualt mode apply to all forms of Meliodas? Also shouldn’t AM Meliodas scale to UTO and PDK. Assualt mode scale far above 2nd demon mark since he was able to fight PDK way better than before.

No it doesn't. Meliodas just received his unsealed power from a Goddess Amber, restoring power that was already taken from him.

Ban vs Meliodas shows that faster =/= stronger.

Also where does true magic Meliodas scale above DK Britannia.

 

[ByAsura]

He doesn't scale above DK Britannia.

 

[speedster352]

He doesn't scale above DK Britannia.

Why not? Zeldris sensed his power and said he had no chance of winning. Then true magic comes up and he makes this statement

Here's the raw and the translation. The Kanji just means more than that, not well beyond.

He said that right after using Ruler, and wasn't even swinging.

Where?

That's fair, but who I was referring to in that 75% post was True Magic.

Actualy いや can be written 弥 And mean extremely which would translate to something like « extremely/Very beyond » beyond = 以上 Here

Super Saiyan multiplier keeps it because there's a statement, not a showing in the Frieza Saga.

The showing in the Frieza saga is just why we regard the Super Saiyan multiplier statement as acceptable when the stated multipliers for SS2 and 3 are inconsistent.

Super Saiyan multipliers actually work against you here because we don't have the same multipliers from calcs and other statements for SS2 and 3 in other keys.

It's not at all different. My point was that being faster than a character doesn't simply mean they're stronger because the other character may not even have the same ratio of speed and power.

Escanor can be slower than Meliodas but stronger.

That's just a speed/power multiplier surpassing Ban's level of speed and power, so that really has no bearing on my point and is just a sweeping generalisation.

Also, the Ban he surpassed had higher speed and power than Meliodas due to absorbing all of his power. So this isn't a case of lopsided statistics being equalised.

It makes no sense for AM to be a 2x multiplier for one instance. That’s a double standard I am quite disappointed in you.

 

[ByAsura]

Why not? Zeldris sensed his power and said he had no chance of winning.

He wasn't even referring to True Magic, and nobody suggested it once throughout the battle.

In fact, Zeldris had no idea that Mel would use it at all, and was insanely surprised about his level of power, which makes sense when DK (who'd potentially be Zeldris' only experience of the form, since possessed vessels retain memories in Cursed By Light) wrongly described it as a form rivalling his own power at a time before DK Britannia even existed.

Then true magic comes up and he makes this statement

Funny how you quoted that part of the discussion, but ignored everything else that came after it.

I know that he actually said well beyond, but Zeldris didn't refer to any form of DK in particular. Everyone agreed that Mel just gets a higher/far higher rating with True Magic just to cut the controversy.

It makes no sense for AM to be a 2x multiplier for one instance.

It's literally wiki rules bro.

I just told you this, but you still insist on pointing the finger at me.

It won't even change scaling the wider scaling outside of one character (that being a miniscule increase to the combo that Britannia DK briefly stopped), btw.

That’s a double standard I am quite disappointed in you.

That's not a double standard.

After all this time, you still don't know what the term means, and that makes me quite disappointed in you.

 

[Majinere566]

Question about Crisis amp, If A character damages him 2 times that would make the original demon stronger by 2 right?

 

[ByAsura]

We don't know how much Crisis increases OG Demon's power.

He's just 2x Cusack and Chandler because he's literally Cusack + Chandler (who both scale above Assault Mode).

Also, he was damaged a lot and still didn't surpass Ludoshel until near the end of their fight.

 

[Majinere566]

I thought with crisis everytime he gets injured his power grows with proportion to the amount of damage he gets

Like the first time ludociel attacked him, he launched an attack and did nothing to ludociel until Ludociel launched a second attack and the original Demon does the same move but it was more effective

Then Ludociel attacked for the 3rd time(bottom of the second attack) and the Original Demon uses the same move and it blows ludociel away knocking him down with merlin

 

[ByAsura]

It's not in proportion to the damage he receives, it's in proportion to how much closer to death he is.

It doesn't really make sense that it'd be proportional to the damage received itself, because his body is continuously breaking down and growing stronger without external damage, and just a single attack from Ludoshel would already make OG Demon stronger than him.

 

[Majinere566]

It's not in proportion to the damage he receives, it's in proportion to how much closer to death he is.

His body functions in a way that when he gets damaged his body breaks down thus his life is shaved away and he gains more power in proportion

I updated my previous message above

 

[ByAsura]

I still don't see your point.

All damage does itself is bring him closer to death due to his body breaking down, so damage actually has nothing to do with it except for activating Crisis by proxy.

Besides, taking twice the damage wouldn't double his power, it'd double the amp he receives from his life draining away. For example, let's say he has a health bar, and receiving 1 damage increases his power 1% (non-exponentially). 2 damage would just increase his power 2%.

Like the first time ludociel attacked him, he launched an attack and did nothing to ludociel until Ludociel launched a second attack and the original Demon does the same move but it was more effective

If anything, this shows how wrong your point is.

He's already damaged at the start of the fight, gets blasted with lightning spree, gets obliterated again, and it takes another attack for him to equal Ludoshel. Then he surpasses Ludo by continuing to break down on his own.

If it is proportional to damage, literally a single attack would have boosted OG Demon to Ludoshel's level.

 

[speedster352]

He wasn't even referring to True Magic, and nobody suggested it once throughout the battle.

In fact, Zeldris had no idea that Mel would use it at all, and was insanely surprised about his level of power, which makes sense when DK (who'd potentially be Zeldris' only experience of the form, since possessed vessels retain memories in Cursed By Light) wrongly described it as a form rivalling his own power at a time before DK Britannia even existed.

Funny how you quoted that part of the discussion, but ignored everything else that came after it.

I know that he actually said well beyond, but Zeldris didn't refer to any form of DK in particular. Everyone agreed that Mel just gets a higher/far higher rating with True Magic just to cut the controversy.

It's literally wiki rules bro.

I just told you this, but you still insist on pointing the finger at me.

It won't even change scaling the wider scaling outside of one character (that being a miniscule increase to the combo that Britannia DK briefly stopped), btw.

That's not a double standard.

After all this time, you still don't know what the term means, and that makes me quite disappointed in you.

My bad for getting mad at you. How life? Can this be applied yet?