Nipponverse general discussion #2

[OverlordDonnelly]

I haven't seen that DLC, so I'll ask. Does the dialogue at all give us an idea of how Zed scales to pre-D4 Valvatorez?

 

[Dragonstitch]

I haven't seen that DLC, so I'll ask. Does the dialogue at all give us an idea of how Zed scales to pre-D4 Valvatorez?

Well from the DLC it Zed seems below Pre-D4 Valvatorez (Note that this is pre disgaea 6's main story). As he does talk about how even in his weakened state Valvatorez is very strong and Valvatorez says Zed as wonderful Strength. So this does put Zed of the same track of being stronger than Laharl as Zed could fight Pre-D4 Valvatorez on his own. While Laharl needed the help of Flonne, etna, and sicily to fight the same Pre-D4 Valvatorez.

 

[Jimmy.robinson.5099]

For anybody interested, Prinny Classic Presents Vol 2 was announced. It has Makai Kingdom (the PSP version) and Zettai Hero Project.

 

[Dragonstitch]

For anybody interested, Prinny Classic Presents Vol 2 was announced. It has Makai Kingdom (the PSP version) and Zettai Hero Project.

The fact we are getting the PSP version is great, combed with Z.H.P that is a solid set. I am hoping we get a vol 3 with La Pucelle PSP and we will be set for the PSP ports we never got.

 

[Jesterofgames]

A few months late here…

but Yeah I think the word “universe” means greater multiverse and “world” means universe in disgaea 6.

especially since they refer to Disgaea 2’s World as a world when we know it’s in it’s own seperate universe to other netherworlds.

though I’m just checking we sure Zed in the DLC’s is Pre story Zed?

Edit:.

Spoiler: Zed vs Laharl

Also I feel like Comparing Axel to Laharl at full power to say Laharl isn’t as strong as Zed is… not the best argument.

don’t get me wrong I can’t justify the scaling (as much as I’d love to because Laharl is my favorite.)
However as a reminder Axel wore KILLIA and ADELL out and got them to surrender in Disgaea 5’s Adell, Rozalin and Axel DLC.

 

[Dragonstitch]

most of the DLC does mention he was fighting the god of destruction and with the fact that he was the only person going through super reincarnation. the only time this could possible fit is pre-main story. Though since super reincarnation let's the user time travel uncontrollably would explain why he fights a Pre disgaea 4 Valvatorez, post disgaea 2 Adell, and Rozalin, and a post disgaea 4 Desco. though honestly using the DLC of 6 for scaling might not be the best idea as it has Zed's power all over place.

As well Axel would still be higher on the scaling chain than Laharl seeing as he is still at least somewhat comparable Adell who got bored fighting Laharl Etna, Flonne, and sicily and saw the fight as a waste of his time.

Also I said the PC version of disgaea 2 looks to have retconned Gig's title as a god of destruction, so the best scaling the Disgaea 6 God of Destruction has is being stronger than Alexander which would makes Zed's spot on the chain around the same place as dd2 Laharl is.

As well we see this Laharl Etna, and Flonne are all still in the D1 designs would mean they are pre-DD2, this is backed up by sicily not even being talked about.

 

[Jesterofgames]

so…
disgaea 6 scaling is basically just an absolute headache is what your saying?
Well more so then the usual disgaea scaling with character’s powers fluctuating to extents (not large but noticable unless your names gig) in scope based on the whims of the devs.
With I think the only consistant one being Mao and Laharl being equals in power (which Makes sense baring Adell and his odd age they are the youngest protagonists.)

 

[Dragonstitch]

Yeah it is by far the most headache inducing scaling the verse has gotten. So it is likely best to just label the main characters of Disgaea 6 as stronger than Laharl, Etna, and Flonne.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

what is nipponverse?

 

[Jesterofgames]

Games made by nipponichi. Disgaea for example.

also what about the regeneration bit?

 

[Dragonstitch]

I still think it could be low-godly. I will be trying to get the revision I have been planning together in the next week or 2.

 

[Dragonstitch]

so JP disgaea rpg showed off there seconds year anniversary characters. which is a Valvatorez, and Artina. the first skill they previewed for Valvatorez looks to have gravity manipulation.
Edit: and possibly absorption for Artina as her preview skill has her absorbing the angelic centaur from her Goddess Artemis skill.

 

[Dragonstitch]

so I will be cutting the CRT into 2 parts one for the disgaea 6 evilities the other will be for char world, Super reincarnation, killia's training. and possible a higher speed rating do to more overlord multipliers and taking the hoursmen's turbo boost evility into account.

 

[Dragonstitch]

so going though more disgaea RPG story. Barbra can withstand fire that burns at 1 trillion degrees. and seems dimension slash has the power of 99% of the universe. So possible massive heat resistance feat for 2-As, and upgrade for 3-B

 

[Dragonstitch]

guys need some back up here.
QuasiYuri is trying to get the verse nuked do to not following their downplay of the verse.

 

[OverlordDonnelly]

I just wanted to point out that the verse needs a minor CRT to remove Hellfire Manipulation since it no longer exists on the Wiki.

Also should we eventually try to source and screenshot the many powers and abilities that each character has? Despite having so many things listed, the profiles could do with more expansion and explanation on them

 

[Dragonstitch]

I was planning to get rid of hellfire on the pages that still have it when the RPG keys would be added. Though the games content slowed delaying that. As for the evilities used on the pages i already have them linked on this blog.

As for explanations, and game sources I have been adding them with the newer pages i make. and since most of the stuff is generic it would be easy to copy paste those.

 

[OverlordDonnelly]

Okay, that's good to know! I just wanted to be sure that the information was presented properly. If there's anything in the works for the verse, do keep me in the loop.

 

[Dragonstitch]

Will do. right now the only ideas i have right now are possible splitting the laharl etna and flonne's late game key into D1 late game and DD2 late game this there is a notable power gap. and possibly splitting up Baal into separate keys for his appearances differences.

 

[Dragonstitch]

So i am working Prier's page and while looking for scaling for her demon form. I think it would be best to scale her to her d5 appearance. and a fun fact i found reading her dd2 dialog. it looks like she is warpped from part way through the demon route's final chapter. so i want your opinion considering the weakened dark prince can fight her, and the maiden of light shown being somewhat on par with the full power dark prince. do you think it is a good idea to scale them to 2-A as well?

 

[Dragonstitch]

Well Gig is coming to JP DRPG.

 

[Dragonstitch]

Okay, that's good to know! I just wanted to be sure that the information was presented properly. If there's anything in the works for the verse, do keep me in the loop.

So i was wanting some input. going by translations of the latest JP DRPG event the leads of d1-6, DRPG Ash. and DRPG Prier were able harm a gig that was using less they 50% of his power. do you think this would be enough to push them into low end god tier or should we treat this as an outlier?

 

[OverlordDonnelly]

So i was wanting some input. going by translations of the latest JP DRPG event the leads of d1-6, DRPG Ash. and DRPG Prier were able harm a gig that was using less they 50% of his power. do you think this would be enough to push them into low end god tier or should we treat this as an outlier?

Well, all of DRPG has taken place well after the events of their main games, right? So, as long as they have keys for specifically their DRPG scaling, I don't think it's unfair to say they're stronger by now.

Even Val has surpassed his original Tyrant self in power while in his weakened state, if I remember correctly. Downscaling seems fine to me.

 

[Dragonstitch]

yeah for Val he has surpassed his old tyrant powers on top of the leads getting super form (I don't know if those were used in the gig fight). So the leads, DRPG ash, DRPG prier and possible DRPG Dark Eclair, Drpg Makai Kingdom cast, the DRPG d5 cast, DRPG King Krichevskoy (seems to be stronger then base DRPG Laharl), Base renya, the dark amped version of Vulcanus, and Aurum would downscale from below 50% Gig.

I think the supporting casts should be at the top of high tier since it shows that they do need either external power ups, or transformations to keep up with the leads' base forms, and Generics downscale from the supporting cast (Do to PC training them the same way they trained the leads and supporting casts)

 

[Dragonstitch]

Well it is a sad day. Global DRPG is getting put into maintenance mode

 

[OverlordDonnelly]

Well it is a sad day. Global DRPG is getting put into maintenance mode

Yup. That means that we'll have to rely on somehow finding footage of all of the JP only events, and then translate them.

Otherwise, it'll all become lost information

 

[Dragonstitch]

Yup. That means that we'll have to rely on somehow finding footage of all of the JP only events, and then translate them.

Otherwise, it'll all become lost information

yeah. though as long as the discord stays open we can still get the translations, and summaries there. since there is a dedicated translation team there. and i did save the summary for the gig event, and the stuff for the super forms. I will also be saving the translated scans of the xeno faction stories ending.

which does support low end god tier for the leads, and xeno characters. as Fallen Vessel Flonne's armor was had a part of Xeno Zenon's power in it and the 2 laharls with a combo attack were able to break it. (Though solo they could only chip the armor)

 

[Jimmy.robinson.5099]

Well it is a sad day. Global DRPG is getting put into maintenance mode

Is it getting shut down?

 

[OverlordDonnelly]

yeah. though as long as the discord stays open we can still get the translations, and summaries there. since there is a dedicated translation team there. and i did save the summary for the gig event, and the stuff for the super forms. I will also be saving the translated scans of the xeno faction stories ending.

which does support low end god tier for the leads, and xeno characters. as Fallen Vessel Flonne's armor was had a part of Xeno Zenon's power in it and the 2 laharls with a combo attack were able to break it. (Though solo they could only chip the armor)

That's good. I was extremely worried that all of that information would become hard to translate at some point. It's probably in our best interest to save screenshots soon.

On an unrelated note, has there ever been any explicit statements about the cosmology besides it generally being 2A in size?

I've been trying to wrap my head around its structure. I know that Celestia is supposedly far larger than the average Netherworld, and netherworlds can be universal in size. There's also whatever is going on with the Prism Ranger TV show being a whole universe, yet still a TV Show.

Then there's the Xeno characters who I think come from another dimension, and the Carnage Dimension also exists, which mirrors the regular Cosmos.

Without even getting into possible higher interpretations like Guided Fate Paradox stuff, the Cosmology is larger than baseline 2A from what I can gather.

 

[OverlordDonnelly]

Is it getting shut down?

They haven't officially confirmed it, but the Global version just extended its most recent event throughout the entire month, and plans on redoing old events moving forward.

So there's a 99% chance the global version is dead.

 

[Dragonstitch]

They haven't officially confirmed it, but the Global version just extended its most recent event throughout the entire month, and plans on redoing old events moving forward.

So there's a 99% chance the global version is dead.

Yeah from the staff on the discord there is one dev left on the game. as well the company fired all of it's QA staff, CS staff, and most of the PR staff. so it might be that the company is going under.

 

[Dragonstitch]

for cosmology it is something i do plan on making a blog for. We know there is an unknown number of Celestias, a countless number of Netherworlds ranging from multi-solar system to universal in size, there are the multiple human worlds also ranging from multi-solar system to universal in size, the item world which is another universe that is high 3-A in size, checking again the carnage horsemen call the Carnage Dimension the other side of the world. implying it is a mirrors of that timeline but it still a part of it. there is the X Dimension which is big enough to hold a copy of d4 netherworld, and the disgaea human world. the Xeno Dimension which looks to be a copy of the normal one

so not taking the TV world, and the creator's realm into account.

we have a 2-A number of timelines each timeline holds Countless*2 or 3 space-times ranging from multi-solar system to universal in size, and a few of those can make there own branching timelines.

 

[Dragonstitch]

So i am making a JP account for drpg.

 

[OverlordDonnelly]

I respect your dedication, but losing my progress and all-Desco team was a serious punch in the gut, so my time with the game will likely end here.

By the way, if The Cosmos contain the 2-A Netherworlds, Celestias, and human worlds, then there's a decent chance that The Cosmos might qualify as a low 1-C space by our current standards. At least, that's what I think from our current standards. I could be wrong.

 

[Dragonstitch]

Well nevermind the JP version has DCed 3 times resetting the download each time.

As for the cosmos sadly i don't think we qualify for that method of getting low 1-C. since we only have 2-A timelines, 2-B netherworlds per timeline, an unknown number of human worlds, and an unknown number of Celestias part per timeline.

 

[OverlordDonnelly]

Well nevermind the JP version has DCed 3 times resetting the download each time.

As for the cosmos sadly i don't think we qualify for that method of getting low 1-C. since we only have 2-A timelines, 2-B netherworlds per timeline, an unknown number of human worlds, and an unknown number of Celestias part per timeline.

I have seen arguments for a space being able to qualify if it contains a 4D space within it that is considered extremely small by comparison. From what I remember, a universe with the human world in it is called "as important as a speck of dust" compared to The Cosmos by Pram. I'm not quite sure if that would be enough to qualify, and I might have to check the original Japanese dialogue if I can.

Either way, there seems to be some factors like the Prism Rangers show, that have expanded arguments for the cosmology's size. So, I'm curious to see if I find anything.

 

[Dragonstitch]

honestly we could get tier 1 if it truly is R>F with the tv world. would you be able to grab some of the tv world's scans?

 

[OverlordDonnelly]

honestly we could get tier 1 if it truly is R>F with the tv world. would you be able to grab some of the tv world's scans?

I'll try to do that. Do you just need the english scans, or original Japanese?

 

[Dragonstitch]

I think the english scans should do.

 

[Dragonstitch]

so i am trying to get as many scans from Global drpg. going though nether history stuff. their might be some Abstract Existence (type 2) for malice demons.