New 4KoA/7DS Revisions

[ByAsura]

AP Revisions​

The Ocean Calculation​

Unfortunately, Tarmiel's calculation is flawed because Aether and KLOL used 40 km for the radius instead of 20. The actual value is just under 2.6 teratons.

But, we have another way to get a higher value.

Behemoth/Demon King Scaling​

Behemoth has 5-C feats just via his howls and size alone.

During a rebellion ~9,000 years before the start of the series, 50% Demon King used his strength to subdue Behemoth, and Post-Purgatory Ban, Full Wings King, 2nd Mark Meliodas/CBL Zeldris, etc are quite a bit inferior, but they were still able to fight 100% DK in his prime and withstand his attacks.

Setting aside the fact that the Demon King, Post-Purgatory Ban and Meliodas, Full Wings King, Escanor, etc being millions to hundreds of millions times stronger than almost everyone else in the top 5% of the verse completely annihilates any form of credulity (at least to the people who've read the series), we do have some (admittedly kind of shaky) scaling.

Firstly, Demon King Zeldris states the Ten Commandments are the only Demons under his thrall with power anywhere near the EoS Sins, and suggests they would've been capable of slowing them down. Full Wings King and Escanor probably wouldn't count in this scenario, since they were weakened or off the board by the time Demon King possessed Meliodas, but it'd most certainly include Ban and Meliodas himself.

Secondly, weakened Demon King Zeldris states that his magic is still flowing smoothly and notes that his vessel's compatibility is not far inferior to Meliodas', which he previously used to match Post-Purgatory Ban. DKZ then gains a significant amount of power and compatibility by absorbing magic from Lake Salisbury. We previously had that as a <4x downscale from DK via Mael since he expended huge amounts of power at Camelot (prior to gradually restoring his power with Lake Salisbury), and I think that's completely reasonable. However, 'my magics are reasonably adequate' are not the private musings of a person who's down to 0.011% of their previous strength.

Elizabeth could easily curbstomp this version of Demon King, despite the extraordinarily high degree of resistance to Goddess magic that Zeldris, Cusack and Chandler displayed. While Elizabeth is significantly stronger than the Archangels (barring Noon Mael), it's obvious that Elizabeth isn't hundreds of times more powerful than they are, and the Archangels' true bodies in turn had some difficulty beating the Ten Commandments.

As for how much everyone downscales, we can reverse the old verse figures (barring the BoS stuff) since the reasonings from here don't change. However, these are not accurate figures, and shouldn't go on the verse page. For example, 41.22 teratons to 412.2 teratons was due to Escanor absolutely tanking Assault Mode Meliodas' amplified attacks.

New Combo Scaling​

The Ultimate One Escanor already scales above Prime Demon King Zeldris, making him alone >378 exatons prior to Merlin's limit breaking spell. Even pretending all the other Sins didn't contribute, the number of Full Counters would bolster Escanor's attack to over 1.5 yottatons (aka Planet level+). Adding in everyone would increase this value to Large Planet level, albeit close to baseline.

DK and SD's Creation Feats​

Thanks to Makai for the translation.

Demon King and Supreme Deity's creation feats were previously removed because they occurred in an incredibly vague span of time, but the CBL novel confirms that both of their worlds and species were created in a relatively short amount of time (at least when compared to the following 9 millennia).

Additionally, it's implied/shown that at least the Demon World has a starry sky beyond its miasma layer. So 4-A for DK and Chaos.

Speed Revisions​

There's a number of perception blitzing calculations. From what I can find, this kind of stuff is now acceptable.

• Omnious Nebula's speed.

The first calculation is slightly contentious, since it's only kind of confirmed that 2nd Mark's attacks are faster than Flash. However, there's a point where something is so obvious (see the scans in the blog) that muddying the waters can be disregarded by Death of the Author.

• Meliodas blitzes Galand.

I may be biased here, since it's my calc, but I see no problems with the second calculation. BoS Meliodas can keep up with someone who's as fast as lightning via statements, Galand was way, way faster than Demon Meliodas, Arthur and Ban in every capacity, and Unleashed Meliodas only ever stomped him like it was nothing. Whether it's reaction time or perception time, this works.

• Macduff blitzes Percival.

As long as Percival retained his previous levels of power (which I'm still not sure about, but Makai made a convincing argument for it), I see no reason to dismiss this.

For reference, Percival is superior to Fiddich (the leader of the Dark Talismans), who attacks at the speed of light.

• Meliodas blitzes Arthur.

I don't think this calculation works, since Arthur is about as fast as Meliodas. There have also been attempts to do this calculation with Percival and Tristan, but A) we literally see them react in some form before Meliodas actually reaches Arthur, and B) their vision cones likely don't even cover the full distance between themselves and Arthur.

• The Induras blitz Ludoshel.

I see no problems with this, personally.

• Hendrickson blitzes Gilthunder

I don't think there's enough information to classify this as a perception blitz.

4KoA Profiles/Profile Changes​

TBC.

I had them all done, but things are starting to go wrong (like broken links). So I'll post this stuff later.

This is just to keep the people in the 4KoA discussion thread notified while I fix the issues.

 

[Demon_Lord18]

I agree, if you want I already have a calculation ready.

 

[Demon_Lord18]

Shouldn't the Supreme Deity also scale to DK?

 

[ByAsura]

Shouldn't the Supreme Deity also scale to DK?

She does. Maybe not in terms of creation, though.

I agree, if you want I already have a calculation ready.

Sure.

 

[Majinere566]

I disagree because byasura is from Australia

 

[Demon_Lord18]

She does. Maybe not in terms of creation, though.

Sure.

DK creates the demon world

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Makai641001]

AP Revisions​

The Ocean Calculation​

Unfortunately, Tarmiel's calculation is flawed because Aether and KLOL used 40 km for the radius instead of 20. The actual value is just under 2.6 teratons.

Unfortunate but i agree w the downgrade

But, we have another way to get a higher value.

Behemoth/Demon King Scaling​

Behemoth has 5-C feats just via his howls and size alone.

During a rebellion ~9,000 years before the start of the series, 50% Demon King used his strength to subdue Behemoth, and Post-Purgatory Ban, Full Wings King, 2nd Mark Meliodas/CBL Zeldris, etc are quite a bit inferior, but they were still able to fight 100% DK in his prime and withstand his attacks.

Setting aside the fact that the Demon King, Post-Purgatory Ban and Meliodas, Full Wings King, Escanor, etc being millions to hundreds of millions times stronger than almost everyone else in the top 5% of the verse completely annihilates any form of credulity (at least to the people who've read the series), we do have some (admittedly kind of shaky) scaling.

Firstly, Demon King Zeldris states the Ten Commandments are the only Demons under his thrall with power anywhere near the EoS Sins, and suggests they would've been capable of slowing them down. Full Wings King and Escanor probably wouldn't count in this scenario, since they were weakened or off the board by the time Demon King possessed Meliodas, but it'd most certainly include Ban and Meliodas himself.

Secondly, weakened Demon King Zeldris states that his magic is still flowing smoothly and notes that his vessel's compatibility is not far inferior to Meliodas', which he previously used to match Post-Purgatory Ban. DKZ then gains a significant amount of power and compatibility by absorbing magic from Lake Salisbury. We previously had that as a <4x downscale from DK via Mael since he expended huge amounts of power at Camelot (prior to gradually restoring his power with Lake Salisbury), and I think that's completely reasonable. However, 'my magics are reasonably adequate' are not the private musings of a person who's down to 0.011% of their previous strength.

Elizabeth could easily curbstomp this version of Demon King, despite the extraordinarily high degree of resistance to Goddess magic that Zeldris, Cusack and Chandler displayed. While Elizabeth is significantly stronger than the Archangels (barring Noon Mael), it's obvious that Elizabeth isn't hundreds of times more powerful than they are, and the Archangels' true bodies in turn had some difficulty beating the Ten Commandments.

As for how much everyone downscales, we can reverse the old verse figures (barring the BoS stuff) since the reasonings from here don't change. However, these are not accurate figures, and shouldn't go on the verse page. For example, 41.22 teratons to 412.2 teratons was due to Escanor absolutely tanking Assault Mode Meliodas' amplified attacks.

New Combo Scaling​

The Ultimate One Escanor already scaled above Prime Demon King Zeldris, making him alone >378 exatons. Even pretending all the other Sins didn't contribute, the number of Full Counters would bolster Escanor's attack to over 1.5 yottatons (aka Planet level+). Adding in everyone would increase this value to Large Planet level, albeit close to baseline.

I agree w all of this

DK and SD's Creation Feats​

Thanks to Makai for the translation.

Demon King and Supreme Deity's creation feats were previously removed because they occurred in an incredibly vague span of time, but the CBL novel confirms that both of their worlds and species were created in a relatively short amount of time (at least when compared to the following 9 millennia).

Additionally, it's implied/shown that at least the Demon World has a starry sky beyond its miasma layer. So 4-A for DK and Chaos.

Makes sense, SD could scale i don’t think her creation Would be inferior so maybe a possibly rating could be fine

Speed Revisions​

There's a number of perception blitzing calculations. From what I can find, this kind of stuff is now acceptable.

• Omnious Nebula's speed.

The first calculation is slightly contentious, since it's only kind of confirmed that 2nd Mark's attacks are faster than Flash. However, there's a point where something is so obvious (see the scans in the blog) that muddying the waters can be disregarded by Death of the Author.

It’s attraction Is faster than flash, for it to be the case the slashes are waaaay faster than just Lightspeed.

• Meliodas blitzes Galand.

I may be biased here, since it's my calc, but I see no problems with the second calculation. BoS Meliodas can keep up with someone who's as fast as lightning via statements, Galand was way, way faster than Demon Meliodas, Arthur and Ban in every capacity, and Unleashed Meliodas only ever stomped him like it was nothing. Whether it's reaction time or perception time, this works.

Agreed

• Macduff blitzes Percival.

As long as Percival retained his previous levels of power (which I'm still not sure about, but Makai made a convincing argument for it), I see no reason to dismiss this.

For reference, Percival is superior to Fiddich (the leader of the Dark Talismans), who attacks at the speed of light.

Agreed

• Meliodas blitzes Arthur.

I don't think this calculation works, since Arthur is about as fast as Meliodas. There have also been attempts to do this calculation with Percival and Tristan, but A) we literally see them react in some form before Meliodas actually reaches Arthur, and B) their vision cones likely don't even cover the full distance between themselves and Arthur.

Neutral, Arthur seemed to be blitzed though when fighting seriously he was able to defend himself even though he admitted he was inferior.

• The Induras blitz Ludoshel.

I see no problems with this, personally.

Agreed

• Hendrickson blitzes Gilthunder

I don't think there's enough information to classify this as a perception blitz.

Gil really seems to be looking at Hendy’s starting point his eyes aren’t pointing at his current position so i think we could accept it as a perception blitz

4KoA Profiles/Profile Changes​

TBC.

I had them all done, but things are starting to go wrong (like broken links). So I'll post this stuff later.

This is just to keep the people in the 4KoA discussion thread notified while I fix the issues.

Australian WIFI

 

[ByAsura]

It’s attraction Is faster than flash, for it to be the case the slashes are waaaay faster than just Lightspeed.

Oh, right. That's a good point.

Neutral, Arthur seemed to be blitzed though when fighting seriously he was able to defend himself even though he admitted he was inferior.

He implied that he was inferior to 2nd Mark Meliodas.

Arthur is easily on par with base Mel, if not a fair bit faster.

 

[Makai641001]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:pekiodas/DK_creates_the_demon_world

In the newest chapters we learned about Percival’s backstory, Arthur’s dimension was already created even before he died.

The timeframe for Neo camelot is between end of NNT (16years ago) and Percival’s birth (Also 16 years ago)

And more precisely Neo Camelot existed a few days after DK’s defeat so Diodra wouldn’t die from the poison like his L mom

 

[Makai641001]

Oh, right. That's a good point.

Couldn’t we use Lightspeed as a timeframe and count the entirety of the slashes distance to get a lowball for this feat btw ?
Cause i don’t think the total slash distance is « only » 25 m

He implied that he was inferior to 2nd Mark Meliodas.

Arthur is easily on par with base Mel, if not a fair bit faster.

Makes sense zaddy Meli stays on top

 

[Demon_Lord18]

In the newest chapters we learned about Percival’s backstory, Arthur’s dimension was already created even before he died.

The timeframe for Neo camelot is between end of NNT (16years ago) and Percival’s birth (Also 16 years ago)

And more precisely Neo Camelot existed a few days after DK’s defeat so Diodra wouldn’t die from the poison like his L mom

I made some additions, it's worth remembering that Ardbeg's daughter had just died from an attack by the demon clan when Arthur went to recruit him to be one of his Knights

 

[Demon_Lord18]

In the newest chapters we learned about Percival’s backstory, Arthur’s dimension was already created even before he died.

The timeframe for Neo camelot is between end of NNT (16years ago) and Percival’s birth (Also 16 years ago)

And more precisely Neo Camelot existed a few days after DK’s defeat so Diodra wouldn’t die from the poison like his L mom

Do you think we could use a value less than 1 year for Low Ball?

 

[ByAsura]

We don't have a size for Neo Camelot yet, and there's no need to divide DK's creation feat by a timeframe.

 

[Makai641001]

Do you think we could use a value less than 1 year for Low Ball?

1 year Is an extreme lowball a few days to a month should be more adéquate though it’s useless for now we don’t know it’s size

 

[Demon_Lord18]

We don't have a size for Neo Camelot yet, and there's no need to divide DK's creation feat by a timeframe.

1 year Is an extreme lowball a few days to a month should be more adéquate though it’s useless for now we don’t know it’s size

I'm talking about the demon world, but it seems like it doesn't need a period of time, so I will remove it

 

[Demon_Lord18]

My calculation gave 75 terafoe

 

[speedster352]

I agree with the op

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

I agree

 

[speedster352]

AP Revisions​

The Ocean Calculation​

Unfortunately, Tarmiel's calculation is flawed because Aether and KLOL used 40 km for the radius instead of 20. The actual value is just under 2.6 teratons.

But, we have another way to get a higher value.

Behemoth/Demon King Scaling​

Behemoth has 5-C feats just via his howls and size alone.

During a rebellion ~9,000 years before the start of the series, 50% Demon King used his strength to subdue Behemoth, and Post-Purgatory Ban, Full Wings King, 2nd Mark Meliodas/CBL Zeldris, etc are quite a bit inferior, but they were still able to fight 100% DK in his prime and withstand his attacks.

Setting aside the fact that the Demon King, Post-Purgatory Ban and Meliodas, Full Wings King, Escanor, etc being millions to hundreds of millions times stronger than almost everyone else in the top 5% of the verse completely annihilates any form of credulity (at least to the people who've read the series), we do have some (admittedly kind of shaky) scaling.

Firstly, Demon King Zeldris states the Ten Commandments are the only Demons under his thrall with power anywhere near the EoS Sins, and suggests they would've been capable of slowing them down. Full Wings King and Escanor probably wouldn't count in this scenario, since they were weakened or off the board by the time Demon King possessed Meliodas, but it'd most certainly include Ban and Meliodas himself.

Secondly, weakened Demon King Zeldris states that his magic is still flowing smoothly and notes that his vessel's compatibility is not far inferior to Meliodas', which he previously used to match Post-Purgatory Ban. DKZ then gains a significant amount of power and compatibility by absorbing magic from Lake Salisbury. We previously had that as a <4x downscale from DK via Mael since he expended huge amounts of power at Camelot (prior to gradually restoring his power with Lake Salisbury), and I think that's completely reasonable. However, 'my magics are reasonably adequate' are not the private musings of a person who's down to 0.011% of their previous strength.

Elizabeth could easily curbstomp this version of Demon King, despite the extraordinarily high degree of resistance to Goddess magic that Zeldris, Cusack and Chandler displayed. While Elizabeth is significantly stronger than the Archangels (barring Noon Mael), it's obvious that Elizabeth isn't hundreds of times more powerful than they are, and the Archangels' true bodies in turn had some difficulty beating the Ten Commandments.

As for how much everyone downscales, we can reverse the old verse figures (barring the BoS stuff) since the reasonings from here don't change. However, these are not accurate figures, and shouldn't go on the verse page. For example, 41.22 teratons to 412.2 teratons was due to Escanor absolutely tanking Assault Mode Meliodas' amplified attacks.

New Combo Scaling​

The Ultimate One Escanor already scaled above Prime Demon King Zeldris, making him alone >378 exatons. Even pretending all the other Sins didn't contribute, the number of Full Counters would bolster Escanor's attack to over 1.5 yottatons (aka Planet level+). Adding in everyone would increase this value to Large Planet level, albeit close to baseline.

DK and SD's Creation Feats​

Thanks to Makai for the translation.

Demon King and Supreme Deity's creation feats were previously removed because they occurred in an incredibly vague span of time, but the CBL novel confirms that both of their worlds and species were created in a relatively short amount of time (at least when compared to the following 9 millennia).

Additionally, it's implied/shown that at least the Demon World has a starry sky beyond its miasma layer. So 4-A for DK and Chaos.

Speed Revisions​

There's a number of perception blitzing calculations. From what I can find, this kind of stuff is now acceptable.

• Omnious Nebula's speed.

The first calculation is slightly contentious, since it's only kind of confirmed that 2nd Mark's attacks are faster than Flash. However, there's a point where something is so obvious (see the scans in the blog) that muddying the waters can be disregarded by Death of the Author.

• Meliodas blitzes Galand.

I may be biased here, since it's my calc, but I see no problems with the second calculation. BoS Meliodas can keep up with someone who's as fast as lightning via statements, Galand was way, way faster than Demon Meliodas, Arthur and Ban in every capacity, and Unleashed Meliodas only ever stomped him like it was nothing. Whether it's reaction time or perception time, this works.

• Macduff blitzes Percival.

As long as Percival retained his previous levels of power (which I'm still not sure about, but Makai made a convincing argument for it), I see no reason to dismiss this.

For reference, Percival is superior to Fiddich (the leader of the Dark Talismans), who attacks at the speed of light.

• Meliodas blitzes Arthur.

I don't think this calculation works, since Arthur is about as fast as Meliodas. There have also been attempts to do this calculation with Percival and Tristan, but A) we literally see them react in some form before Meliodas actually reaches Arthur, and B) their vision cones likely don't even cover the full distance between themselves and Arthur.

• The Induras blitz Ludoshel.

I see no problems with this, personally.

• Hendrickson blitzes Gilthunder

I don't think there's enough information to classify this as a perception blitz.

4KoA Profiles/Profile Changes​

TBC.

I had them all done, but things are starting to go wrong (like broken links). So I'll post this stuff later.

This is just to keep the people in the 4KoA discussion thread notified while I fix the issues.

Could the half power DK have class z LS?

 

[ByAsura]

I'm not sure if we can scale DK and Behemoth's LS right now.

 

[speedster352]

I'm not sure if we can scale DK and Behemoth's LS right now.

They did go head to head so that means they clashed and that can be used for LS. But I might be a bit to vague.

 

[Majinere566]

No

 

[Zezu1995]

agreed

 

[ByAsura]

Couldn’t we use Lightspeed as a timeframe and count the entirety of the slashes distance to get a lowball for this feat btw ?
Cause i don’t think the total slash distance is « only » 25 m

Since the slashes were individual attacks made by separate strands of darkness, I don't think the total distance can be combined.

 

[speedster352]

I'm not sure if we can scale DK and Behemoth's LS right now.

How’s life?

 

[Zezu1995]

speedster i dont think this is the topic to be asking that tbh , not getting at you just saying.

 

[MeliodasDeUzyy]

I agree

 

[Deceived3596]

I'm fine with everything proposed, with exceptions to the 4-A scaling. It's finally nice to have concrete evidence of a short time frame, but the issue with Chaos's, and Demon King's Tier 4 ratings weren't only because they lacked an actual time frame, but they also lacked an assumable time frame.

We now have evidence it was done over a short period of time, but it doesn't provide an actual amount or even a presumable range. Unless we can find evidence that supports a specific range of time for calculation purposes, I don't believe, even with this recent evidence, that Chaos and Demon King should regain their Tier 4 ratings.

I'm personally fine with Tier 4 by that evidence, but I can't argue under my opinion here. I, and the collective, have to abide by rules set by the wiki; and the wiki requires us to have an assumable time frame for calculating finite creation feats.

 

[ByAsura]

The only reason we didn't have an assumable timeframe before was because it could have happened at literally any point before the creation of Original Demon. We now know that's not the case, and that it happened well, well within a few thousand years (like 4,000, since the Demon World is generations older than Drole).

So, yes, we actually do have an assumable timeframe due to this.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

In the Earthquake, why are you assuming the entirety of the planet is shaking at a level that it would all be a Magnitude 9-10 Earthquake everywhere?

Tear the Demon Realm apart doesn't mean the entire planet...

Also disagree with the 4-A stuff for the same reasons I always have... We have no idea what they did to even create them and even then, I still don't believe they ever created more than the planet itself... Like we have zero proof they actually created the stars themselves... I still just see this as a 5-B feat

 

[ByAsura]

In the Earthquake, why are you assuming the entirety of the planet is shaking at a level that it would all be a Magnitude 9-10 Earthquake everywhere?

Because they say it does.

We have no idea what they did to even create them and even then, I still don't believe they ever created more than the planet itself

Frankly, I don't care what you 'believe'. All the scans say they created the realms as a whole, and the entirety of the Demon Realm is an alternate dimension, while Chaos only created the Earth and explicitly not the other realms.

You'd have to make up all sorts of variables in order to justify your far less believable logic.

 

[Deceived3596]

The only reason we didn't have an assumable timeframe before was because it could have happened at literally any point before the creation of Original Demon. We now know that's not the case, and that it happened within a few thousand years (like 4,000, since the Demon World is generations older than Drole).

So, yes, we actually do have an assumable timeframe due to this.

If we have supporting evidence for a specific range, I'm fine with using the feat. It just needs to be calculated using that timeframe before we can assert any values for the feat.

Has someone already made a calc for the feat using this timeframe?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Because they say it does.

Oh that's fine then, that scan and translation wasn't on the calc you posted, so I thought this was entirely based on that one statement of "Tearing the Demon Realm apart"

Frankly, I don't care what you 'believe'. All the scans say they created the realms as a whole, and the entirety of the Demon Realm is an alternate dimension, while Chaos only created the Earth and not the other realms.

You'd have to make up all sorts of variables in order to justify logic that's far less believable.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm... You know what... Fair enough, I still don't agree it scales to their regular stats since it's such a massive outlier compared to every other feat in the entire story, but I should really stop downplaying the creation...

My hate boner for NNT really needs to calm the **** down

 

[ByAsura]

I still don't agree it scales to their regular stats since it's such a massive outlier compared to every other feat in the entire story

It won't. Plus, it only scales to 1 or 2 other characters.

My hate boner for NNT really needs to calm down

Focus it on the characters, plot, and weird bullshit instead of our ratings, and you should be golden.

Btw, what do you think about the perception calcs? I'm heavily unsure of them myself, so I'd like some input from a CGM on the actual methodology used.

Has someone already made a calc for the feat using this timeframe?

I think so, but I might make one myself.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Focus it on the characters, plot, and weird bullshit instead of our ratings, and you should be golden.

I will admit me not liking the story and plot can sometimes make me overlook my own biases

Btw, what do you think about the perception calcs? I'm heavily unsure of them myself, so I'd like some input from a CGM on the actual methodology used.

Perception calcs have been in a weird state of uncertainty for a while now. If the calc is based on someone who is directly stated to be a certain speed getting blitzed, it's fine, but when it comes to scaling, it becomes fickle. Like being faster than someone who is canonically lightning speed should mean you have lightning speed reactions for calcs, but sometimes it becomes a matter of how calcs are done

Personally I think most of these are fine, especially Ominous Nebula, which is balatantly stated to have a speed greater than Flash

 

[MeliodasDeUzyy]

I will admit me not liking the story and plot can sometimes make me overlook my own biases

Perception calcs have been in a weird state of uncertainty for a while now. If the calc is based on someone who is directly stated to be a certain speed getting blitzed, it's fine, but when it comes to scaling, it becomes fickle. Like being faster than someone who is canonically lightning speed should mean you have lightning speed reactions for calcs, but sometimes it becomes a matter of how calcs are done

Personally I think most of these are fine, especially Ominous Nebula, which is balatantly stated to have a speed greater than Flash

Does that mean you accept 4-A and FTL+?

 

[Makai641001]

Since the slashes were individual attacks made by separate strands of darkness, I don't think the total distance can be combined.

Even if we use a global Lightspeed timeframe ?
Okay

 

[Makai641001]

I will admit me not liking the story and plot can sometimes make me overlook my own biases

4kota honestly has better plot maybe u’ll like it better once u read it

Perception calcs have been in a weird state of uncertainty for a while now. If the calc is based on someone who is directly stated to be a certain speed getting blitzed, it's fine, but when it comes to scaling, it becomes fickle. Like being faster than someone who is canonically lightning speed should mean you have lightning speed reactions for calcs, but sometimes it becomes a matter of how calcs are done

Personally I think most of these are fine, especially Ominous Nebula, which is balatantly stated to have a speed greater than Flash

Nice

 

[Lormac_CC]

Following

 

[karo_senpaii]

AP Revisions​

The Ocean Calculation​

Unfortunately, Tarmiel's calculation is flawed because Aether and KLOL used 40 km for the radius instead of 20. The actual value is just under 2.6 teratons.

But, we have another way to get a higher value.

Behemoth/Demon King Scaling​

Behemoth has 5-C feats just via his howls and size alone.

During a rebellion ~9,000 years before the start of the series, 50% Demon King used his strength to subdue Behemoth, and Post-Purgatory Ban, Full Wings King, 2nd Mark Meliodas/CBL Zeldris, etc are quite a bit inferior, but they were still able to fight 100% DK in his prime and withstand his attacks.

Setting aside the fact that the Demon King, Post-Purgatory Ban and Meliodas, Full Wings King, Escanor, etc being millions to hundreds of millions times stronger than almost everyone else in the top 5% of the verse completely annihilates any form of credulity (at least to the people who've read the series), we do have some (admittedly kind of shaky) scaling.

Firstly, Demon King Zeldris states the Ten Commandments are the only Demons under his thrall with power anywhere near the EoS Sins, and suggests they would've been capable of slowing them down. Full Wings King and Escanor probably wouldn't count in this scenario, since they were weakened or off the board by the time Demon King possessed Meliodas, but it'd most certainly include Ban and Meliodas himself.

Secondly, weakened Demon King Zeldris states that his magic is still flowing smoothly and notes that his vessel's compatibility is not far inferior to Meliodas', which he previously used to match Post-Purgatory Ban. DKZ then gains a significant amount of power and compatibility by absorbing magic from Lake Salisbury. We previously had that as a <4x downscale from DK via Mael since he expended huge amounts of power at Camelot (prior to gradually restoring his power with Lake Salisbury), and I think that's completely reasonable. However, 'my magics are reasonably adequate' are not the private musings of a person who's down to 0.011% of their previous strength.

Elizabeth could easily curbstomp this version of Demon King, despite the extraordinarily high degree of resistance to Goddess magic that Zeldris, Cusack and Chandler displayed. While Elizabeth is significantly stronger than the Archangels (barring Noon Mael), it's obvious that Elizabeth isn't hundreds of times more powerful than they are, and the Archangels' true bodies in turn had some difficulty beating the Ten Commandments.

As for how much everyone downscales, we can reverse the old verse figures (barring the BoS stuff) since the reasonings from here don't change. However, these are not accurate figures, and shouldn't go on the verse page. For example, 41.22 teratons to 412.2 teratons was due to Escanor absolutely tanking Assault Mode Meliodas' amplified attacks.

New Combo Scaling​

The Ultimate One Escanor already scales above Prime Demon King Zeldris, making him alone >378 exatons prior to Merlin's limit breaking spell. Even pretending all the other Sins didn't contribute, the number of Full Counters would bolster Escanor's attack to over 1.5 yottatons (aka Planet level+). Adding in everyone would increase this value to Large Planet level, albeit close to baseline.

DK and SD's Creation Feats​

Thanks to Makai for the translation.

Demon King and Supreme Deity's creation feats were previously removed because they occurred in an incredibly vague span of time, but the CBL novel confirms that both of their worlds and species were created in a relatively short amount of time (at least when compared to the following 9 millennia).

Additionally, it's implied/shown that at least the Demon World has a starry sky beyond its miasma layer. So 4-A for DK and Chaos.

Speed Revisions​

There's a number of perception blitzing calculations. From what I can find, this kind of stuff is now acceptable.

• Omnious Nebula's speed.

The first calculation is slightly contentious, since it's only kind of confirmed that 2nd Mark's attacks are faster than Flash. However, there's a point where something is so obvious (see the scans in the blog) that muddying the waters can be disregarded by Death of the Author.

• Meliodas blitzes Galand.

I may be biased here, since it's my calc, but I see no problems with the second calculation. BoS Meliodas can keep up with someone who's as fast as lightning via statements, Galand was way, way faster than Demon Meliodas, Arthur and Ban in every capacity, and Unleashed Meliodas only ever stomped him like it was nothing. Whether it's reaction time or perception time, this works.

• Macduff blitzes Percival.

As long as Percival retained his previous levels of power (which I'm still not sure about, but Makai made a convincing argument for it), I see no reason to dismiss this.

For reference, Percival is superior to Fiddich (the leader of the Dark Talismans), who attacks at the speed of light.

• Meliodas blitzes Arthur.

I don't think this calculation works, since Arthur is about as fast as Meliodas. There have also been attempts to do this calculation with Percival and Tristan, but A) we literally see them react in some form before Meliodas actually reaches Arthur, and B) their vision cones likely don't even cover the full distance between themselves and Arthur.

• The Induras blitz Ludoshel.

I see no problems with this, personally.

• Hendrickson blitzes Gilthunder

I don't think there's enough information to classify this as a perception blitz.

4KoA Profiles/Profile Changes​

TBC.

I had them all done, but things are starting to go wrong (like broken links). So I'll post this stuff later.

This is just to keep the people in the 4KoA discussion thread notified while I fix the issues.

Almost everything here are hiding calcs