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New 4KoA/7DS Revisions

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Pekiodas said:
Almost all=2
Click to expand...
Almost all the calcs is based on. This dude could keep up with someone that was light speed or blitzed the person so another person blitzing that person you can be able to use light speed as the bare minimum for the person that was blitzed. That's still hiding calcs.
 
Deceived3596 said:
Has someone already made a calc for the feat using this timeframe?
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I had done it, but I was told that I didn't need a time limit so I removed it, but I think the arguments for the time limit weren't good, so it doesn't change much.

I still have it saved here if you want to take a look.
 
karo_senpaii said:
Almost all the calcs is based on. This dude could keep up with someone that was light speed or blitzed the person so another person blitzing that person you can be able to use light speed as the bare minimum for the person that was blitzed. That's still hiding calcs.
Click to expand...
Obviously not, Gilthunder uses lightning to move around, indura is a Blitz on a character who is said to literally move like a Flash of light, The omnious nebula is said by Ryudoshel himself to be faster than his Flash.
 
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ByAsura said:

AP Revisions​

The Ocean Calculation​

Unfortunately, Tarmiel's calculation is flawed because Aether and KLOL used 40 km for the radius instead of 20. The actual value is just under 2.6 teratons.

But, we have another way to get a higher value.

Behemoth/Demon King Scaling​

Behemoth has 5-C feats just via his howls and size alone.

During a rebellion ~9,000 years before the start of the series, 50% Demon King used his strength to subdue Behemoth, and Post-Purgatory Ban, Full Wings King, 2nd Mark Meliodas/CBL Zeldris, etc are quite a bit inferior, but they were still able to fight 100% DK in his prime and withstand his attacks.

Setting aside the fact that the Demon King, Post-Purgatory Ban and Meliodas, Full Wings King, Escanor, etc being millions to hundreds of millions times stronger than almost everyone else in the top 5% of the verse completely annihilates any form of credulity (at least to the people who've read the series), we do have some (admittedly kind of shaky) scaling.

Firstly, Demon King Zeldris states the Ten Commandments are the only Demons under his thrall with power anywhere near the EoS Sins, and suggests they would've been capable of slowing them down. Full Wings King and Escanor probably wouldn't count in this scenario, since they were weakened or off the board by the time Demon King possessed Meliodas, but it'd most certainly include Ban and Meliodas himself.

Secondly, weakened Demon King Zeldris states that his magic is still flowing smoothly and notes that his vessel's compatibility is not far inferior to Meliodas', which he previously used to match Post-Purgatory Ban. DKZ then gains a significant amount of power and compatibility by absorbing magic from Lake Salisbury. We previously had that as a <4x downscale from DK via Mael since he expended huge amounts of power at Camelot (prior to gradually restoring his power with Lake Salisbury), and I think that's completely reasonable. However, 'my magics are reasonably adequate' are not the private musings of a person who's down to 0.011% of their previous strength.

Elizabeth could easily curbstomp this version of Demon King, despite the extraordinarily high degree of resistance to Goddess magic that Zeldris, Cusack and Chandler displayed. While Elizabeth is significantly stronger than the Archangels (barring Noon Mael), it's obvious that Elizabeth isn't hundreds of times more powerful than they are, and the Archangels' true bodies in turn had some difficulty beating the Ten Commandments.

As for how much everyone downscales, we can reverse the old verse figures (barring the BoS stuff) since the reasonings from here don't change. However, these are not accurate figures, and shouldn't go on the verse page. For example, 41.22 teratons to 412.2 teratons was due to Escanor absolutely tanking Assault Mode Meliodas' amplified attacks.

New Combo Scaling​

The Ultimate One Escanor already scales above Prime Demon King Zeldris, making him alone >378 exatons prior to Merlin's limit breaking spell. Even pretending all the other Sins didn't contribute, the number of Full Counters would bolster Escanor's attack to over 1.5 yottatons (aka Planet level+). Adding in everyone would increase this value to Large Planet level, albeit close to baseline.

DK and SD's Creation Feats​

Thanks to Makai for the translation.

Demon King and Supreme Deity's creation feats were previously removed because they occurred in an incredibly vague span of time, but the CBL novel confirms that both of their worlds and species were created in a relatively short amount of time (at least when compared to the following 9 millennia).

Additionally, it's implied/shown that at least the Demon World has a starry sky beyond its miasma layer. So 4-A for DK and Chaos.

Speed Revisions​

There's a number of perception blitzing calculations. From what I can find, this kind of stuff is now acceptable.
The first calculation is slightly contentious, since it's only kind of confirmed that 2nd Mark's attacks are faster than Flash. However, there's a point where something is so obvious (see the scans in the blog) that muddying the waters can be disregarded by Death of the Author.
I may be biased here, since it's my calc, but I see no problems with the second calculation. BoS Meliodas can keep up with someone who's as fast as lightning via statements, Galand was way, way faster than Demon Meliodas, Arthur and Ban in every capacity, and Unleashed Meliodas only ever stomped him like it was nothing. Whether it's reaction time or perception time, this works.
As long as Percival retained his previous levels of power (which I'm still not sure about, but Makai made a convincing argument for it), I see no reason to dismiss this.

For reference, Percival is superior to Fiddich (the leader of the Dark Talismans), who attacks at the speed of light.
I don't think this calculation works, since Arthur is about as fast as Meliodas. There have also been attempts to do this calculation with Percival and Tristan, but A) we literally see them react in some form before Meliodas actually reaches Arthur, and B) their vision cones likely don't even cover the full distance between themselves and Arthur.
I see no problems with this, personally.
I don't think there's enough information to classify this as a perception blitz.

4KoA Profiles/Profile Changes​

TBC.

I had them all done, but things are starting to go wrong (like broken links). So I'll post this stuff later.

This is just to keep the people in the 4KoA discussion thread notified while I fix the issues.
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Let me make myself clear by using Macduff blitzing percival as an example.

The justification here is percival is superior to fiddich who attacks at light speed. This is true but it should just be rated as ftl as attempting to calc Macduff feat would be hiding calc.

In the scan percieval is able to contend with him and later on defeat him. He'd have the same speed rating as him but you can't use it in a calc. The correct thing to do is to make a calc on percieval feats against the actual canonical light speed dude. But you know if you do so then you can't make a calc on Macduff blitzing him so you avoid doing that and just rate percieval as at least same speed as fiddich . This is textbook definition of hiding calcs. The actual reasoning makes sense but it's not the wiki rules.

Almost all the speed calcs here follow this same principle
 
Pekiodas said:
Obviously not, Gilthunder uses lightning to move around, indura and a Blitz on a character who is said to literally move like a Flash of light, The omnious nebula is said by Ryudoshel himself to be faster than his Flash.
Click to expand...
The only calc here fine is indura blitzing ludociel as ludociel himself is canonical light speed.

That's all. The rest are hiding calcs. I said almost all not all
 
karo_senpaii said:
Almost all the speed calcs here follow this same principle
Click to expand...
No, man, did you even read what I sent?

Pekiodas said:
Obviously not, Gilthunder uses lightning to move around, indura and a Blitz on a character who is said to literally move like a Flash of light, The omnious nebula is said by Ryudoshel himself to be faster than his Flash.
Click to expand...
Ryudoshel's speech is a little different from what I remember

 
karo_senpaii said:
The only calc here fine is indura blitzing ludociel as ludociel himself is canonical light speed.

That's all. The rest are hiding calcs. I said almost all not all
Click to expand...
Gilthunder also has confirmed speed, he even uses lightning to move around
 
Pekiodas said:
Gilthunder also has confirmed speed, he even uses lightning to move around
Click to expand...
So ? If the calc was on someone blitzing Gilthunder I would fully agree. But the calc is scalling someone to Gilthunder speed and then using it to calc someone blitzing him. That's what i just explained as hiding calcs.


In fact ominous nebula calc is even more acceptable than most of the others done here
 
karo_senpaii said:
So ? If the calc was on someone blitzing Gilthunder I would fully agree. But the calc is scalling someone to Gilthunder speed and then using it to calc someone blitzing him. That's what i just explained as hiding calcs.
Click to expand...
I don't understand, but in any case MHS+ perception is used in the calculation for the simple reason that Gil moves at the speed of lightning, there is no hidden calculation here
 
Pekiodas said:
I don't understand, but in any case MHS+ perception is used in the calculation for the simple reason that Gil moves at the speed of lightning, there is no hidden calculation here
Click to expand...
Are you talking about the Hendrickson blitzing gil calc? I'm talking about Mel blitzing gaaland
 
karo_senpaii said:
Let me make myself clear by using Macduff blitzing percival as an example.

The justification here is percival is superior to fiddich who attacks at light speed. This is true but it should just be rated as ftl as attempting to calc Macduff feat would be hiding calc.
Click to expand...
Percival Is narratively stated to be superior to a canonical light timer making his perception at least SOL canonically.

I don’t think scaling Macduff to a canonical light timer is hiding the calc
karo_senpaii said:
In the scan percieval is able to contend with him and later on defeat him.
Click to expand...
Percival Is able to contend 1 entire arc later after getting humongous buffs
karo_senpaii said:
He'd have the same speed rating as him but you can't use it in a calc. The correct thing to do is to make a calc on percieval feats against the actual canonical light speed dude.
Click to expand...
Not if he’s already narratively implied to be able to cook said light speed dude
karo_senpaii said:
But you know if you do so then you can't make a calc on Macduff blitzing him so you avoid doing that and just rate percieval as at least same speed as fiddich . This is textbook definition of hiding calcs. The actual reasoning makes sense but it's not the wiki rules.
Click to expand...
Seems weird
 
Pekiodas said:
No, man, did you even read what I sent?


Ryudoshel's speech is a little different from what I remember

Click to expand...

Another thing that might help is that even though Ryudoshel has light speed perception, he literally can't see the darkness of Zeldris moving, making it clear that she moves far beyond her perception
 
Makai641001 said:
Percival Is narratively stated to be superior to a canonical light timer making his perception at least SOL canonically.

I don’t think scaling Macduff to a canonical light timer is hiding the calc

Percival Is able to contend 1 entire arc later after getting humongous buffs

Not if he’s already narratively implied to be able to cook said light speed dude

Seems weird
Click to expand...
Right there your first line yeah that's the error. If he has a clear cut statement of being faster than the guy then sure you can use it. But if it is just based on the fact he got stronger and could defeat him and is superior to him then that's where the issue lie.

Character A is light speed.
Character B keeps up and defeats Character A
Character be is also light speed by default.

Character C blitzes Character B. If you make a clac saying Character B is light speed that is hiding in calc. You avoided calcing Character B speed in his fight against Character A so as you can make a calc on Character C blitzing B . This is hiding calcs. Avoiding calcing a feat so you can use the scalling for another calc.

Simply calc Character B speed in his fight against Character A . Probably ftl. And then rate Character C as just unquantifiably higher
 
karo_senpaii said:
I didn't argue about ominous nebula. There are other contentions there but it is not hiding calc coz ludociel in question has canonical light speed movement
Click to expand...
It was not directed at you 😔

It was just to complement what I said before, although it was in one of the answers I gave you
 
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karo_senpaii said:
Simply calc Character B speed in his fight against Character A . Probably ftl. And then rate Character C as just unquantifiably higher
Click to expand...
In the fight against Fiddich Percival has no feats that come close to the speed of light, this statement he only obtained much later
 
I asked a calc member about the cross calculation thing for Planet sizes and He said.

At that point it's plausible that they're just using the much larger atmospheric cutoff of up to 10,000 km. It wouldn't necessarily be larger than Earth. It'd be much better if you could get a shot from space to compare the creature to the planet.
Click to expand...
Is there a way to calc it using the troposphere or stratosphere instead ?
 
Majinere566 said:
Don't know tbh. Most we got is a curvature like panel with the Behemoth laying down
Click to expand...
Being on top of the behemoth’s back (1300 km)
and still being able to breathe mean his back doesn’t reach the stratosphere.

I doubt DW has an identifiable troposphere due to the lack of clouds, but we know the DW stratosphere isn’t reached at 1300 km that’s 26x beyond earth’s stratosphere.
 
Majinere566 said:
Did u bring that up with the cgm you talked with?
Click to expand...
Yeah I asked him about using the stratosphere or troposphere he answered:

I don't know specifics here, obviously.

If this is a situation like those Chinese manga things where Earth is billions of miles wide or something, then you can probably try and calculate this in the way you're thinking, yeah.
Click to expand...

Ig we can try this
 
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