(Nasuverse Upgrade) High 6-A rating for Characters with A+ (and above) Noble Phantasms?

[Lucis=the=Lumenian]

So, I just read this post on obd : https://www.narutoforums.org/threads/type-moon-nasuverse-tier-list.911658/page-139#post-58787286

Which calced the passive energy released by Pashupata. its 25-425 petatons.

Arjuna also held back Pashupata's AoE in the fight against Demon Gods. he restrained Pashupata's power so much that he died. Which means Arjuna should also have comparable physical strength to Pashupata.

And Nasuverse being Nasuverse, I think it'd be safe to put anything above A+ rating in '6-A'.

So, why is Arjuna not in 6-A? Is there some downgrade/debunk thread I'm not aware of?

 

[Lucis=the=Lumenian]

Bump.

 

[Antvasima]

You can use the Knowledgeable Members List to find people to ask to comment here.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

I think this has been brought up before. It was considered outlier I believe because NPs aren't that strong before.

 

[Lucis=the=Lumenian]

I think this has been brought up before. It was considered outlier I believe because NPs aren't that strong before.

the reason because it wasn't that strong is because Arjuna tried very hard to limit its Area of Effect so it wouldn't... you know... actually raze continents?

 

[RegisNex1232]

Or perhaps using attack animations as feats is wrong when it contadicts the attack's definition and the plot? As far as we know, Pashupata hasn't been shown to do this sort of damage and it is said to work as a stat check. This is exactly like using Gil's NP animation in CCC as a feat, despite it not meshing with our previous knowledge. Game animations aren't all that reliable and it would be better to use an actual, quantifiable feat

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

If NP animation isn't reliable, why we use Kiara's NP animation for 5-A Gil and pals?

 

[RegisNex1232]

That is also wrongly used as well and will be discussed in a separate, larger CRT by me. For now, Pashupata has no DC feats outside of attack animations and is explicitly said to work off hax, hence the calc can't be used.

 

[GilgaArcuied]

This upgrade seems legit to me. narutoforums is usually pretty reliable from my use of it.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

I'm kind of skeptical about 5-A Kiara feat as well. If CCC NP animation isn't reliable, then why we use it at all? I really want to see the CRT. It's possible to have AP via Hax though like Spearboi for example.

 

[GilgaArcuied]

I don't see the issue with Kiara's NP. We clearly see her growing to the size of a planet and it is backed up by other planet level feats in the series.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Planet level you mean BB's CCC? It's Hax definitely. And NP should be separated from actual tier of the character.

 

[GilgaArcuied]

so does that count as attack potency for BB or not? if not then what do we do?

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

It's either Reinhard case which is just Hax or Emperor case which isn't even AP at all. Also Ea has 4-A feat in both Extella and Link, they both created space-time rip for countless stars to spin around like EE. And they say it's inconsistent.

 

[Antvasima]

You should probably ask Qliphoth and Ramesses to comment here.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

@Regis Pashupata actually has a DC feat in his Interlude and in Link he cancelled Vasavi Shakti with it.

I don't think the 6-A Pashupata calc is usable until we get more information from the story and Link Mats if that's going to be a thing.

 

[RegisNex1232]

That was him using his bow, not Pashupata. He never actually uses Pashupata, just changing his chants for his Agni Gandiva to increase its power.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

Yeah but I don't think you can cancel Vasavi Shakti with a Insta kill check. I don't see why he would do Shiva chant for Agni's Bow either.

 

[Sage_God_Slayer]

@Ram Yea. He switches to Pashupata cause while it is related heavily to hax it is still his most destructive NP.

The animation doesn't contradict Pashupata's output since it's in relatively same tier as Vasavi Shakti.

 

[RegisNex1232]

@Ram For releasing more power? The interlude was all about how he's been sandbagging the whole time and only been using 10% of his bow's power and Shiva is a stronger god to call upon than Agni in terms of destruction.

@Sage Again, no one writing Arjuna mats has mentioned any DC output for Pashupata, so unless you have actual evidence of that, this animation calc shouldn't be used.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

@Regis Still doesn't make sense because Shiva isn't connected to Agni Gandiva and chanting a God's name for more power is speculation. If you could do a God chant for more power then why didn't Karna do that for more power against Cuzilla?

Also in Link Pashupata clashed with Vasavi Shakti if it's just a insta kill check then it wouldn't be able to do that.

Regardless I still don't think the High 6-A Pashupata calc is usable because we need more info from Link and Link mats.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

This is pretty legit. We can clearly see Pashupata dispersing a ton of clouds and is consistent with descriptions of it and Brahmanastra.

There's 0 reason not to use animation. Very biased against Nasuverse to do so.

 

[Reppuzan]

Honestly, I'd be willing to ignore the animation this time if only because of Pashupata's effect, which explicitly judges each target individually to see if they're worthy of Moksha.

The storm cloud creation is an aftereffect and has no influence on the attack's actual power.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The calc isn't about Storm Creation though? It has to do with the storm dispersal by the simple act of Pashupata being sent flying.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Except that the NP isn't really mentioned to have any visual damage. It is said to force its targets to achieve Moksha/instant death, which is clearly hax based, not DC based. Hence the animation can't be used as it's misleading to the true nature of the NP. It would be going against written materials given in the FGO materials books.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Is there a description of the ability and visual to compare?

 

[RegisNex1232]

Description is here.

FGO visual and Link visual.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

You are aware that there's no rule saying that an attack can't have ap AND hax right? Rasenshuriken is specifically described as dealing cellular damage as its main method of destruction yet visually it causes a huge explosion, are we supposed to just ignore the damage that attack visibly causes because 'it's hax so it can't deal damage too'

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Rasenshuriken isn't really hax though,it's many micro blades small enough to directly attack the cells.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I agree with Matt here.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

That description and visual do not match like at all,The Link visuals seem over the top and don't actually have much to do with the technique at all from what I'm seeing.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Except that story wise, it's never mentioned that it does any damage. Even when it eliminated the Demon Gods it used hax, not DC because that is how the NP is stated to work. Using false equivalences like the Rasenshuriken doesn't work here Weekly, though it's surprising seeing you here in a verse you don't know. Unless it's shown in the story, we can't just assume that it does what is not mentioned in the NP description.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

There is also a another Noble Phantasm with a High 6-A description.

Also, Regis, the only one who uses false equivalencies is you, who act like all Noble Phantasm visuals are CCC Gilgamesh's Ea. Nothing says that Pashupata can't be hax and also powerful enough to disperse the clouds like that. The visuals show it.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Ok? What does that have to do with this?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Ok? What does that have to do with this?

It makes things consistent. Just like Tier 5 is consistent.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I agree with Regis,many games exaggerate the effects of abilities simply just to do it. In Ultimate Ninja Storm 4 Tailed Beast Bomb can make something that looks like a black hole on impact,but we know that isn't the case.Its easier to trust the source material description of it from what I'm seeing,the visuals don't match.

 

[RegisNex1232]

The visuals are there just for show in games like FGO, Extra and Extella. The onus is on you to show that storywise Pashupata does any damage. We are given the description which shows hax.

It doesn't make Pashupata Tier 6, or anything else Tier 5 apart from deliberate misinterpretation and lack of knowledge.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Ultimate Ninja Storm 4 / The Boruto Game have plenty of legitimate Tier 6 and Tier 5 feats in the special moves. Trusting your eyes when it comes to visual media is simply the easiest thing to do. We accept Attack Animations in literally every series. No reason not to with the Nasuverse.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The visuals are there just for show in games like FGO, Extra and Extella.

No, they are there to depict the attack. And by seeing the attack we can quantify what it does. The same way with every game.

It being hax doesn't mean it can't be AP too.

Also, you know what makes Pashupata High 6-A? An unarguable feat and a calculation. You just want to eliminate everything that's not outright spelled out for you in the Nasuverse.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

"Deliberate misinterpretation"

That's quite the accusation you're throwing. Maybe we simply believe that, since the attack showed a physical side effect of it getting shot, it should scale to it's AP. Because that's what is literally shown as.