Nasuverse Mega CRT Part 3: God Tiers

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Let me think about this for a few minutes (still way too tired lol)

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

“Oh excuse me. Now, let me tell you about your holy spear. It isn’t meant to overcome external threats but to keep the planet in place, or rather, it’s its anchor. You just spoke of Avalon, but Avalon isn’t so much as a different world. It’s beneath your very feet. On the other side of the world, separated by a thin layer.

“Beneath my feet…below the ground you say?”

“So to speak. Below the foundation that is ‘the world of your kind’ is the gap that is ‘Avalon’, and below that is the surface of the planet. Avalon and your world are but layers, its texture. Both are “outer appearances” sticking to the surface of the planet.

“….Texture…you mean Britain?”
“Not just Britain, but the entire world of mankind. Britain, actually, happens to be a bit unique. Artoria, the world you see with your eyes is not everything. The fairies knew the moment your species ascended to the seat of the Prime Ones that the nature of the planet was changing, and they accepted it. What had once been an era filled with mana ended by you humans becoming the greatest of forces and gradually declined. Personified gods was reduced to mere natural phenomenon, and the ether in the air cleared. The decline of mystery accelerated since the demise of Solomon the King of Magic. And then five hundred years before today, the age of gods ended completely.
This planet became the possession of animals who could survive on their own even when they’re no longer apart of the cycle of nature.
To put it simply, I mean you and your species. The intelligence that humanity gained, their mentality strove to illuminate the darkness of ‘uncertain laws’. And because of that, the laws of the planet changed to laws most suitable for humans to live.
The dragons and the fairies weren’t compatible with those rules. That’s why they moved to the other side of the world on their own. They left this land to your people.”
And what remained in this land were those who didn’t have the power to move and those who could not accept their end.
The former were harmless but the latter would be dangers to humanity. The powerful ones could live even without the mana in the air, so it was likely they would continue to dwell for hundreds of years and threaten humanity.

“In any case, your species have become the representatives of the planet. But that can be undone with just a peel of a layer. When a piece of cloth is going to be blown away by the wind, what would you do? Would you leave it be? Of course you wouldn’t. If it looks like it’s going to come off, you’re going to sew it back. The texture of the world you live in, the anchor that is going to keep it to the planet is your holy spear,the spear that shines to the ends of the world, the pillar that protects the Prime Ones, the Holy Spear Rhondowhatever.”

"My apologies. I'll move on to the topic of the holy lance now. Its purpose is not to strike down foreign invaders; it exists to ensure the world's stability. Put simply, it's the planet's anchor. You brought up the land of fairies earlier, and I should tell you that it is not an entirely different realm. Right beneath your feet, only a thin layer separates us from the other side of the world."

"Beneath my feet...? Do you perhaps mean the planet's surface?"

"It's fine if you want to think of it that way. With 'Your world' at the bedrock of your thinking, the land of fairies is but a gap in it. Yet, to them, your world is likewise nothing more than a blanket, it's but a texture over the world. However, both are mere facades that cling to the planet's surface."

"Are you...... saying that Britain is a texture?"

"Not just Britain, the entire world that you humans inhabit. Rather, Britain is actually quite special. Artoria, what you can see does not constitute all that is. When humans took the mantle of superior beings, the state of the world underwent a change, and the fairies, having realized that, accepted that change. The surface changes its physical laws to suit that of the lifeforms living atop it. The age that brimmed with mysteries and prana welcomed its passing when humans completely came into power, gradually declining since. Nature, though once possessing its own ego, became but a phenomenon, and the ether that filled the air began to dissipate. When Solomon, the very king of magecraft, passed on, the decline hastened until finally, 500 years ago, the age of gods came to an end. The planet became independent from nature. But while having broken out of nature's cycle and being capable of living on their own, there were creatures that came to take nature as their own possession, and just to be clear, I am talking about you humans here. A special trait of human intelligence is that you tend to desire a light to shine on the darkness that is the 'uncertain laws' of spiritual phenomenon. The result of that was the planet's rules changing to being 'optimized for human life.' Dragons and fairies, their existence violates the rules of humanity, so those beings left to the other side of the world and relinquished this surface world to you humans."

Those that remained on the surface were those who did not have the strength required to leave and those unable to accept their end had come. The former are of no threat, but the latter are very much so. Even if they were to lose the prana in the atmosphere, they could continue to exist for hundreds of years out of the sheer will to live and possibly endanger mankind.

"Whatever the case, you all came to be the representatives of the surface world. That said, it's still only a thin layer that can be rolled up with just a bit of effort. If the time comes that the blanket is to be blown away by the wind, what would you do? Would you ignore it? No, you wouldn't, would you? If it's going to be blown away, then all you must do is sew it down. The texture that you humans live on is secured to the planet by an anchor, the holy lance—The Spear that Shines to the Ends of the Earth. A pillar that exists to protect the superior beings: the Holy Lance Rhongomyniad. "

"That's not the problem. This island is poor to begin with. The people of Britain are falling into darkness because the Radiant Tower can no longer be seen."

"The Radiant Tower? You mean Rhongomyniad, the Holy Lance?"

"Yeah. Speaking of which, I still haven't explained the difference between the Holy Sword and the Holy Lance.

The Holy Sword was born within the planet -- a god-made weapon forged by the planet's hands. It was created by this planet in anticipation of a foreign enemy that would destroy the planet.
It's a sword to protect the planet, not a weapon to protect humans. Of course, you can use it against barbarian tribes, but it was originally meant to defeat 'Destruction.' That's why--"

"Its true power cannot be used outside of a battle to save the world, right? There's no need for such concern. Caliburn aside, Excalibur is simply far too powerful. You mistake my priorities to think that I would use it to scorch a few barbarians."

"Exactly. The planet's light is meant to be used at the opportune time. Remember this, for there may come a time when you must fight not as a king, but as a lone hero. Reckless use of the Holy Sword will absolutely come back to bite you. You're probably tough enough to get away unscathed, but the people around you aren't so sturdy."

"Merlin. I tolerate you because you speak the truth unvarnished, but please stop talking about people as if they're lumps of iron."

"My apologies. Next is the Holy Lance. Instead of a weapon to defeat a foreign enemy, it's something that stabilizes the planet... or rather, it acts as an anchor for the planet.
Earlier, you mentioned fairyland. It isn't some in some completely different world. It's beneath your feet -- in the reverse side of the world, separated from us by a thin film."

"Beneath my feet... underground?"

"You can think of it that way. Put another way, beneath the foundation we call your world, there exists a gap called fairyland, and the earth's surface is below that.
Both your world and fairyland nothing more than layers. Textures. Each of them are aspects attached to the earth's surface."

"Textures... Britain, you mean?"

"Not just Britain. The entire human world. In fact, Britain is a tad special.

Artoria, there's more to the world than just what you can see. When you humans reached the Throne of Primacy, the fairies saw that the state of the planet was changing, and accepted this fate.
The planet changes its physical laws based on the activity of life on its surface. The era of abundant mystery and mana gradually began to decline when you humans became the greatest power.
Nature
The gods
with personalities became natural phenomena, and atmospheric ether dispersed.
The decline of mystery had been accelerating since the death of Solomon, the King of Magic. Then, five hundred years ago, the Age of Gods finally, completely, came to an end.
This planet became independent of nature, now that it was owned by animals who could manage to survive on their own even if they were removed from the natural cycle.

Yes, it would be simplest to say that humanity caused this. The inclination of the intelligence that humans acquired -- their mentality -- was a desire to illuminate the darkness of uncertain laws. Consequently, the planet's rules were altered to to become laws best suited to human life. Both dragons and fairies broke humanity's laws, so they moved to the reverse side of the world. They yielded the surface to you."

Then, all that remained on the surface were those who lacked the power to move, or who refused to accept their end.
The former were no danger, but the latter posed a grave threat to humans. These powerful individuals could survive despite the loss of atmospheric mana, so they might have lived on for centuries as threats to mankind.

"Anyway, you've become the representatives of this planet. Still, it's just a thin layer that could easily peel away. When a cloth is going to be carried away by the wind, what do you do? Do you leave it alone? Of course not! You pin it in place, lest it be torn asunder. The texture of the world that you humans live in is anchored to this planet by the Holy Lance. It is the lance that shines at the World's End. The pillar that protects humanity. Rhongomyniad."

Artoria's eyes went wide, but not because the mage described something too massive to imagine.

Rather... the lance had already been given to her.

"B-But why give me something of such import!?"

"Because you're the king of Britain. Listen, this island is special. The continent is firmly part of the human world. There, countries are connected by land, so the rewriting of the physical laws proceded quickly.
But here, things are different. The air and mysteries of the Age of Gods still persist. It's the quirk of a small island kingdom -- the more isolated it is from the mainland, the easier it is for mystery to remain.
Britannia in particular is key. It's like the navel of the planet. To those who live in mystery, it's a holy land that may as well be our heart.

So, if... let me think. If someone wanted to fill the planet with ether once more, he'd undoubtedly build his workshop here on this island. This place is the final relic of the Age of Gods, so it could be the tipping point to flip the entire world backwards.
The Holy Lance exists to stake the world in place and prevent that from happening. To protect Britain is to seal a world of magic."

She felt weary to the bone. Looking down at her hands which had thoughtlessly accepted the lance, Artoria gulped.

"But, Merlin. I hold the lance. Does that mean it's not anchoring the world?"

"No, the Tower of the End is in place. It's invisible to human eyes because you're holding it. That brilliant, shining tower beyond the horizon rests in your hands. So, are you excited now that you've suddenly become a god?"

"That's absurd! Take it back- Oh no, but I can't leave it to you, either! You'd definitely plant it in some random rock to confuse people for your amusement!"

"Hahaha, you know me so well. You'll just have to take good care of it, then. In any case, the lance that Vivian forced on you is like a shadow of the Tower. It wouldn't be given to someone who'd try to misuse it, anyway. Take Vortigern, for instance."

These came from beast liar. Idk about Goddess Rhongo scaling physically to Low 1-C but at the very least the fullest power of the Holy Spear Rhongo should imo

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

I discussed it a bit with a friend and thought it over a bit, and i agree with a possibly Low 1-C for the Lion King herself.

But, as shown above, even if Rhongo is with Morgan in LB6, the real Rhongo is still mentioned, and i'm pretty sure Mordred Lancer with the actual Rhongo is implied to be the Lostbelt King, so i'd rather just wait for part 2 to come out than anything. Part 2 comes out in just a month, which also fits my schedule because i want to do a "big Lostbelt additions" general thread by that time. I think it just fits the schedule better.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

I discussed it a bit with a friend and thought it over a bit, and i agree with a possibly Low 1-C for the Lion King herself.

Part 2 comes out in just a month, which also fits my schedule because i want to do a "big Lostbelt additions" general thread by that time. I think it just fits the schedule better.

So until then it's gonna be left like now with tier 6 or it's gonna be changed to tier 1 and the specific details will be for later?

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

We'll just leave it at tier 6 until then yeah. It's just one month anyway, wait shouldn't be too painful.

Besides, 70% of the LB is within that second half, so who knows what could happen.

Is there anything left to do here, or should I close this?

I think now we are done.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Wait, actually, about Cu Alter:

Thinking about it more, i don't agree with him having a Low 1-C/1-C boosted Gáe Bolg because... using Currid Corrighen seals Gáe Bolg lol. It being capable of destroying the world feels like either hyperbole or a "over time" thing.

The Scáthach thing also doesn't make much sense because Cú said that, but Scáthach is still a Servant, just really immortal. How would that even work anyway? You need God level AP to negate her regen? How strong even are the Gods Cu is talking about?

I just think it's too much of a stretch. Anyone disagrees?

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

How strong even are the Gods Cu is talking about?

Euryale and Stheno strong

 

[PsychoWarper]

Wait, actually, about Cu Alter:

Thinking about it more, i don't agree with him having a Low 1-C/1-C boosted Gáe Bolg because... using Currid Corrighen seals Gáe Bolg lol. It being capable of destroying the world feels like either hyperbole or a "over time" thing.

The Scáthach thing also doesn't make much sense because Cú said that, but Scáthach is still a Servant, just really immortal. How would that even work anyway? You need God level AP to negate her regen? How strong even are the Gods Cu is talking about?

I just think it's too much of a stretch. Anyone disagrees?

Ngl just sounds like a great regen/immortality neg feat

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

I also disagree with the Low 1-C, to me make more sense that is talking about the America singularity instead of the entire world, and the thing about Scáthach shouldn't be regen negation and/or immortality negation? From what I remeber normal Cu already is dangerous to immortals because of that.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

Honestly "Destroy the World" is kinda too vague on it's own

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Also, regarding the speed thing again of BB the rest of the Sakura Five still need to be added the immerusable combat speed, they just have immesurable reaction.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Thank you for reminding me of that.

 

[RetroWeeeb]

It appears as though Elizabeth hasn't been updated yet.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

she had a 2-A key?

Fixed.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

she had a 2-A key?

Fixed.

as of like a month ago, yes

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

She didn't even have the tier 2 category added. Explains how i missed her.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

she had a 2-A key?

My thoughts exactly, followed by “Why?”

 

[Blueicemonkey]

I see. Still, i'm not sure if the Lion King should scale to Low 1-C and above due to the fact that we don't actually know how much Divinity she has relative to other Divine Spirits. I mean, not every Divine Spirit is supposed to be on this level, after all (Euryale and Stheno come to mind lol).

Although, Rhongo still maintains the Textures of the World, which are the one thing that maintain the laws of physics over it, and Sherlock mentioned in LB5 that space was also part of the Textures iirc, so maybe she could be Low 2-C.

Goddess Rhongo also has the feat of being on the same level as King Hassan.

Divine Spirits and Goddess Rhongomyniad in the same Singularity are stated to be above the Demon God Pillars. From the Babylonia anime, only the representatives of the Demon Gods are Divine Spirit.

Also, nothing indicates that she is a low tier Divnity. The ones who were low tier were explictly so.

And about the spoiler,

Spoiler

I don't see any hints for that. The leading theory seems to go other way, and the thing from Morgan being the LB is confirmed both in her profile and in the LB's history section

.

 

[Regidian]

I'm sure the history section talk only her being the queen of the fairy

 

[Blueicemonkey]

I'm sure the history section talk only her being the queen of the fairy

EDIT: Ops, I mixed things. Yeah, I will need to check the raws on that one.

Here is the profile anyways:

Spoiler

異聞帯・妖精國ブリテンを支配する女王。

通常のモルガンは持たない、異聞帯の王であるモルガンのみが持つスキル。

[JP] 5★ Berserker - Morgan - Profile

Atlas Academy DB - FGO Game Data Navigator

apps.atlasacademy.io

The Lostbelt Queen who rules over the Fairy Kingdom of Britain.

A skill that the regular Morgan does not possess, only the Lostbelt King Morgan.

Also, the implication/theory crafting seems to be

Spoiler

That Caster Artoria is the Lostbelt's Morgan, and that Morgan is the Lostbelt's Artoria. People have been questioning that Castoria is actually Artoria since this line:

Ah... it was as if seeing a dream. Or perhaps it has really been a long dream all this while. I am the one fated to be the protector of Britain. The form which that girl dreamt of but could not reach. The nameless king without a throne, who calls out to the twilight sky.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Goddess Rhongo also has the feat of being on the same level as King Hassan.

To be fair i don't think Gaiwan's statement is that realiable, seeing as he's beaten by a casual Hassan, and we never see the full extent of his power until Babylonia.

The other points are fair, but i still think it's fair to wait on this until another CRT, because as said before, Living and Infinity Regend, Zero Musashi, Living and Suigetsu Yagyu, Consort Yu and a few other guys scale to the Lion King for really arbitrary reasons, and i'd rather settle that first than just **** up their entire tier and AP.

 

[Blueicemonkey]

To be fair i don't think Gaiwan's statement is that realiable, seeing as he's beaten by a casual Hassan, and we never see the full extent of his power until Babylonia.

Gawain was also just manhandled by the Lion King who almost killed him (and sent him flying through the city unlike in the movie) from one casual shot, so his point of reference is just being utterly bodied even under his Numeral of the Saint.

The other points are fair, but i still think it's fair to wait on this until another CRT,

I mean, if people are getting scaled on the basis of higher dimensionality and being stronger or comparable to the Demon God Pillars, Goddess Rhongo fits both.

On her status of divinity, we also have a comparison from Artoria's Lancer profile, saying that Artoria Lancer is just 'close to being a Divine Spirit', while Goddess Rhongo 'completely changed into a Divine Spirit':

Although she has the form of a human, this version of Artoria Pendragon can no longer be called a Heroic Spirit of the Man Attribute. Due to the properties hidden within the Holy Lance, she has changed/altered into an existence close to that of a Divine Spirit – a goddess if anything.

Because the “Lion King” held onto the Holy Lance and transformed into “Goddess Rhongomyniad”, completely changing into a Divine Spirit in the process, this version of Artoria is different in the inside compared to the "Lion King".

But well, I guess all the Divine Spirits need an upgrade since they are all explicitly superior to the Demon God Pillars and higher dimensional beings.

Living and Infinity Regend, Zero Musashi, Living and Suigetsu Yagyu, Consort Yu and a few other guys scale to the Lion King for really arbitrary reasons, and i'd rather settle that first than just **** up their entire tier and AP.

Honestly I don't even know what's with that. They are people who are compared to Divine Spirits or are said to be 'Divine Spirits class', but for some reason whoever did their profiles said that because Goddess Rhongo is a Divine Spirit, they must be comparable to her. When there are several categories of Divine Spirit, from the low tier like Euryale and Stheno, or what Isthar would become after crossing some of the Gates in Kur, to the top tier Chief God/Demiurges.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

The arbitrary comparison with Artoria is certainly weird, that need to be changed unless there is some direct statement or something that can relate to her.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

See i already agree that the Lion King scales to them, but she's in a complicated position that makes upgrading her now kind of difficult. Namely that a lot of people scale to both her NP and the Divine Spirit.

I'd rather make another thread to deal with that because as of now it wouldn't really be dealing with the original purpose of this thread. I'd also rather not change the Sword Saint (which would probably be a downgrade) and Yu's (which would be an upgrade) tiers to something else without more imput. Imput that i would get in another thread.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Yeah, better left that to another thread before we derail more. Is there some other character that miss something? If not then better proceed with the next thread (I don't know if would begin now or would be for later, but I'm curious for it).

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

(It would be a bit later. I'm thinking about making an intermission thread to add all the stuff from FGO from like, in between LB1 to no)

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Wait, actually, about Cu Alter:

Thinking about it more, i don't agree with him having a Low 1-C/1-C boosted Gáe Bolg because... using Currid Corrighen seals Gáe Bolg lol. It being capable of destroying the world feels like either hyperbole or a "over time" thing.

The Scáthach thing also doesn't make much sense because Cú said that, but Scáthach is still a Servant, just really immortal. How would that even work anyway? You need God level AP to negate her regen? How strong even are the Gods Cu is talking about?

I just think it's too much of a stretch. Anyone disagrees?

Let's look at the NP description.

Beast of Crunching Deathtusk Rank: A Type: Anti-Unit (Self) Range: - Maximum Targets: 1 person Curruid Coinchenn. The anger of the raging Cú Chulainn temporarily embodies the exoskeleton of Marine Beast Curruid - the monster of the crimson sea that became the basis for the magic spear Gáe Bolg - and clads it over his body like an armor. Attack-type bone armor. By wearing it, END is Rank UP and STR parameter becomes EX. While this Noble Phantasm is active, he cannot employ the "Gouging Piercing Spear of Carnage".

His knife hands are all made from the same material as Gae Bolg; in fact in the NP animation you can see the thorns created when Gae Bolg stabs a heart. 'Gae Bolg being sealed' means that Cu can't use the thrown version of Gae Bolg.

Scathach explains her nature in her room dialogue:

I am a being who has parted ways with death. Though I have materialized as a Servant, I am not really a Heroic Spirit, neither am I a Divine Spirit. I have lost the opportunity to die, and for that reason I am not of the living nor the dead. I...can no longer die. No poetic death awaits me. I'll continue to exist until everything in and outside this world disappears. The incineration of the world...Even if the world were to burn to cinders, I still do not know if I will die...Though I can't say I'm in any hurry to test that theory. I am not going to drag the whole world down with me just for my personal wish. The incineration of the world was averted... However, the world has turned into a blank slate. Perhaps the Land of Shadows too-- No, I won't return to the Land of Shadows just yet, ya know? After all, I'd like to watch over your journey until the very end, if possible. ...Do forgive my selfishness

Scathach is not actually recorded in the Throne of Heroes, and it seems that the incomplete incineration of humanity and destruction of the Land of Shadows failed to kill her. But due to her no longer being bound to the Land of Shadows, she is summonable as a Servant.

Scathach almost died from Curruid Coinchenn, so I believe there are two ways to interrupt this, which we have to choosse from:

1. Scathach is not immortal as a Servant and can be killed normally, and the statements about wanting to end her immortality are about her still living immortal body.
2. Scathach is still immortal as a Servant, and killing her requires a weapon/technique that can kill even gods, specifically ones with enouh divinity/strength to destroy the world.

---

Sun-amped Gawain was shocked that King Hassan is so much stronger than him that he can casually swat aside his attack with his cape. He has no idea about King Hassan's full strength, but what he demonstrated (swat aside his sun-amped attacks with no effort) convinced him that he can take on the Lion King.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

I mean, even if the bones from Curruid Coinchenn are the same as the bones from Gáe Bolg, it still wouldn't be "1-C with Gae Bolg lol

I don't know how to exactly threat this honestly. She's clearly still immortal as a Servant, but her immortality doesn't really make a lot of sense (why would the AP of the attack even matter to the immortality if you are regenerating from it anyway?)

Curruid Coinchenn would also be stronger than the initial release of AAS with this, which again doesn't really make any sense, seeing as AAS is used as a measuring stick for one of the strongest attacks we've seen, while Curruid Coinchenn is never brought up (in fact, if it was that strong, how did we ever win lmao)

So i think either:

1.Servant Scáthach doesn't share the same extent of Living Scáthach's immortality
2.Cu Alter's immortality negation is on the level that he can bring down a God, not related to AP. Some conceptual bullshit, if you will

Unrelated but i also agree with the King Hassan remark.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

With Cu I would say is the second, he have a crazy strong immortality negation, not AP of god level though should have the AP to destroy America.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Imo its just Immortality Neg rather than AP.

Just say he has Low 1-C Immortality Neg

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

lol, I didn't knew that was a thing.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Does Shirou kotomine join the chain of scaling too?

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Probably noooottt? He explicitly just destroys the parallel worlds, not the World in its entirety, but it is done by a incomplete tree of emptyness.

5.5 will probably answer this whenever it comes out in NA.

 

[Antvasima]

So are you finished here now?

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Yes.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will close this then.