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Nasuverse General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter RegisNex1232
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Well in Prisma Illya he used Ea just fine while absorbed into his Dark Self, meaning that he has access to it, but it's more draining on his reserves. He didn't have it on him during later fights since Angelica took them if IIRC.
Illya Gil also fired off NPs from GoB just fine after taking them back, and even grabbed weapons Angelica was firing by shooting Enkidu into all of her GoB portals.
Illya Gil also fired off NPs from GoB just fine after taking them back, and even grabbed weapons Angelica was firing by shooting Enkidu into all of her GoB portals.
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I was wondering something.
It's about the weakest servants. By far, Avenger is the weakest, right?
There has been stated (by him) that even the weakest servant is several times stronger than any human.
So...Shouldn't they be something like Kirei's level? (Not Ciel of course). I mean around Small Building to Building, maybe?
It's about the weakest servants. By far, Avenger is the weakest, right?
There has been stated (by him) that even the weakest servant is several times stronger than any human.
So...Shouldn't they be something like Kirei's level? (Not Ciel of course). I mean around Small Building to Building, maybe?
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Yeah, Avenger (Angra Mainyu) is the weakest, since unlike other Servants, he was just some random villager who got strung up and scapegoated as All of the World's Evils.
I suppose you can, but a closer scaling would be people like Shakespeare and Avicebron since like him, they both have shitty physical stats (save for AM's Agility). AM has E/E/A for Strength/Endurance/Agility. Of course, not all stats correspond exactly to what they usually mean, but it's a general assumption.
Maybe those guys as low/mid end, with Kirei as high end since he does have superior physical stats to some Servants. Though, do you know where does the Small Building Level come from, whether it's his physical attacks or with Black Keys? It's not stated in his profile.
I suppose you can, but a closer scaling would be people like Shakespeare and Avicebron since like him, they both have shitty physical stats (save for AM's Agility). AM has E/E/A for Strength/Endurance/Agility. Of course, not all stats correspond exactly to what they usually mean, but it's a general assumption.
Maybe those guys as low/mid end, with Kirei as high end since he does have superior physical stats to some Servants. Though, do you know where does the Small Building Level come from, whether it's his physical attacks or with Black Keys? It's not stated in his profile.
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Physically (as in punching/kicking) wise, or with the Black Keys? Because if there isn't a good reason for that then it should perhaps be revised and then we can't exactly use him as a benchmark. A better one would be Shakespeare or Avicebron IMO, since they're noted for their absolute lack of physical prowess, and Avenger being the weakest of them all should be on par or below them, with some hax of course.KamiYasha said:
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In terms of Servant vs Servant - Avenger is the weakest. In terms of Servant vs any human... Avenger is only second to the White Beast of Gaia.
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Actually, the statement is that Avenger is the best servant at killing humans...not stronger than any human. He says in Fate/Hollow Ataraxia that he feels comfortable he can kill any human, even very strong ones. I don't know if that is DC or hax or something else.
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He does have Verg Avesta, which inflicts all damage taken onto his opponents, so that might be why he's good at killing humans, even if they can hurt him a lot, it will get reflected back to them, which they can't take due to not being durable enough to survive.
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Not only that... He actualy can disentagrate humans via curse.
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So far who is top tier , mid tier , low tier for any servant ?
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Top Tiers easily: Origin Gilgamesh, Enkidu, Amaterasu, Solomon and maybe a few more.
Mid High Tiers (Top Tiers with a crappy vessel): Cu Alter, Karna, Scathach, Arjuna, Proto Saber and Proto Gil, Ruler, Saber Alter, Saber Alter (Lancer), Normal Gilgamesh, Heracles and Saber (Arturia).
Mid Tiers: Mostly of the servants. (Among them: Sasaki "Dragon Slayer" Kojiro)
Low Tiers: Shackespeare, Hans, Avenger, and probably a few more.
Still mising A LOT of servants.
Mid High Tiers (Top Tiers with a crappy vessel): Cu Alter, Karna, Scathach, Arjuna, Proto Saber and Proto Gil, Ruler, Saber Alter, Saber Alter (Lancer), Normal Gilgamesh, Heracles and Saber (Arturia).
Mid Tiers: Mostly of the servants. (Among them: Sasaki "Dragon Slayer" Kojiro)
Low Tiers: Shackespeare, Hans, Avenger, and probably a few more.
Still mising A LOT of servants.
Heavens_Feel
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Eh, some bits of that list are wrong. Amaterasu isn't even a servant for starters, origin gilgamesh isn't a thing either, and the closest version we've seen of him was CCC. You also put Artoria up there, and without avalon, she really isn't up in those tiers.
Also, no where is it stated origin gil> solomon, but i won't really get into that now. Enkidu, should be somewhere behind arjuna, or so, since enkidu just so happens to be a hard counter to Gilgamesh, doesn't mean enkidu would do great against other enemies. Unless, of course, what was stated in SF, iirc, "If enkidu channels out all thoughts, and becomes a beserker, enkidu would reach a power that surpasses the gods themselves.
That said,
Some of the placements are good, and lol........., Alter c├║ is just being super powered by a grail, whether we can consider that his own actual power or not, eh.
I'll update this post in a bit, or just make a new post with how i figure the listings should be. ^^
Also, no where is it stated origin gil> solomon, but i won't really get into that now. Enkidu, should be somewhere behind arjuna, or so, since enkidu just so happens to be a hard counter to Gilgamesh, doesn't mean enkidu would do great against other enemies. Unless, of course, what was stated in SF, iirc, "If enkidu channels out all thoughts, and becomes a beserker, enkidu would reach a power that surpasses the gods themselves.
That said,
Some of the placements are good, and lol........., Alter c├║ is just being super powered by a grail, whether we can consider that his own actual power or not, eh.
I'll update this post in a bit, or just make a new post with how i figure the listings should be. ^^
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@Heavens Feel
To be fair, it's hard to create a set tier list given that there are so many factors in Servant summoning.
Enkidu should be a top tier since he is literally the only one who can take a full-power Gilgamesh in his prime as the one and true friend and rival of the king. In addition, his Enuma Elish is pretty much the only thing powerful enough to take a full power Ea short of Avalon. Not to mention the fact that he has impeccable stats and sensory abilities.
Gil > Solomon since Gil in his prime is literally the strongest humanity has ever had to offer in terms of sheer power. All of Gil's feats so far have been in crappy Servant vessels imagine what Gil would be like as Grand Archer (considering the fact that he is without a doubt the strongest Servant to be summoned in the Archer class).
To be fair, it's hard to create a set tier list given that there are so many factors in Servant summoning.
Enkidu should be a top tier since he is literally the only one who can take a full-power Gilgamesh in his prime as the one and true friend and rival of the king. In addition, his Enuma Elish is pretty much the only thing powerful enough to take a full power Ea short of Avalon. Not to mention the fact that he has impeccable stats and sensory abilities.
Gil > Solomon since Gil in his prime is literally the strongest humanity has ever had to offer in terms of sheer power. All of Gil's feats so far have been in crappy Servant vessels imagine what Gil would be like as Grand Archer (considering the fact that he is without a doubt the strongest Servant to be summoned in the Archer class).
Heavens_Feel
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Welp, here it is. Pretty much avoided Go servants due to the lack of GO materials.
Tier 0; Solomon, Tamamo and Void Shiki.
Tier 1; Gilgamesh, Karna, Arjuna, Ramses II, Scathach, Heracles, Enkidu
Tier 2; Vlad III, Altera, Lancelot, Gawain, Achilles, Artoria, Nobunaga, Semiramis, Li Shuwen, Lu Bu, Iskandar, King Arthur, Richard, Siegfried
Tier 3; Brynhildr, Darius III, Medusa, Nero, Medea, Francis Drake, Cu Chulainn, Hector, Spartacus, Mordred, Nursery Rhyme, Jeanne d'Arc, Atalante, Paracelsus von Hohenheim, Chiron
Tier 4; No Name Assasin (Beautiful Assasin), Perseus, David, Saint George, Astolfo, Diarmuid, Okita Souji, Robin Hood, Arash, Gilles, Jekyll & Hyde
Tier 5; Hassan of the Cursed Arm, Shirou Tokisada, Emiya, Kojiro, Hundred Faced Hassan, Elizabeth Bathory, Frankenstein's Monster, Jack the Ripper (Apo), Andersen
Tier 6; Angra Mainyu, Stheno, Euryale, William Shakespeare
Tier 0; Solomon, Tamamo and Void Shiki.
Tier 1; Gilgamesh, Karna, Arjuna, Ramses II, Scathach, Heracles, Enkidu
Tier 2; Vlad III, Altera, Lancelot, Gawain, Achilles, Artoria, Nobunaga, Semiramis, Li Shuwen, Lu Bu, Iskandar, King Arthur, Richard, Siegfried
Tier 3; Brynhildr, Darius III, Medusa, Nero, Medea, Francis Drake, Cu Chulainn, Hector, Spartacus, Mordred, Nursery Rhyme, Jeanne d'Arc, Atalante, Paracelsus von Hohenheim, Chiron
Tier 4; No Name Assasin (Beautiful Assasin), Perseus, David, Saint George, Astolfo, Diarmuid, Okita Souji, Robin Hood, Arash, Gilles, Jekyll & Hyde
Tier 5; Hassan of the Cursed Arm, Shirou Tokisada, Emiya, Kojiro, Hundred Faced Hassan, Elizabeth Bathory, Frankenstein's Monster, Jack the Ripper (Apo), Andersen
Tier 6; Angra Mainyu, Stheno, Euryale, William Shakespeare
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CCC Gilgamesh is Origin Gilgamesh a.k.a. Mythic Formal Wear. Above Solomon just because he is always portrayed as the strongest Heroic Spirit. (And also, The fact that Nasu is the biggest Gilgamesh wanker)
About Amaterasu, Yeah, i forgot the deal with Tamamo-Amaterasu.
About Enkidu, well, he is described as Gilgamesh's equal. Aside from Enkidu, Gilgamesh has not considered anyone at his level.
About Amaterasu, Yeah, i forgot the deal with Tamamo-Amaterasu.
About Enkidu, well, he is described as Gilgamesh's equal. Aside from Enkidu, Gilgamesh has not considered anyone at his level.
Heavens_Feel
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Don't really want to get into that, and besides that, he asked for servants. That said, i viewed it that way until fairly recently, but i guess we'll find out for sure once the final GO chapter is out.
True, but again, it's very situational. For example, Enkidus NP grows stronger, the bigger the threat to humanity is, EA is literally anti world, which has Enkidus Own np scale to that.
For example, Enkidu was scared of pale rider, but that's understandable, on the other hand, gil would pretty much deal with pale rider easily, or so we'd think.
True, but again, it's very situational. For example, Enkidus NP grows stronger, the bigger the threat to humanity is, EA is literally anti world, which has Enkidus Own np scale to that.
For example, Enkidu was scared of pale rider, but that's understandable, on the other hand, gil would pretty much deal with pale rider easily, or so we'd think.
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Heavens_Feel
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Thanks, i saw that not too long ago, but without direct Tl's. Hopefully we get an LN Tl down the line, SF is honestly, really interesting. Plus, I'd like to read up on all the new servants in details, but so far, Richard is possibly my favorite, as for the rest of the characters, prelati as well, and enkidu.
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Enkidu and Gilgamesh going ham! http://imgur.com/a/y9IxI
Heavens_Feel
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Heracles vs Gilgamesh when.
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How Scathach god slayers skill againts god hand Heracles ?
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Wait a minute if i remember to surpass God hand you need A rank attack ? So how can the hell God slayer Scathach working agains god hand heracles ?KamiYasha said:
6 minutes ago
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So how many live God Slayers skill Scathach to kill Heracles who have God Hand for first time since Scathach can summon butch gae bolg ?
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Scathach's skill works against divinity, it has nothing to do with the skill. She can affect all of his skills, not just God Hand.
She can also learn skills on the fly, so that is OP as well.
BTW that planetary level of attack...might be worthwhile to look at. Didn't realize Strange Fake went that hard before the true servants were summoned.
She can also learn skills on the fly, so that is OP as well.
BTW that planetary level of attack...might be worthwhile to look at. Didn't realize Strange Fake went that hard before the true servants were summoned.
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God Slayer won't affect Heracles God's Hand... No matter what kind of method is applied... It is a cheating ability that nulify outright everything below A-rank (attacks, magecraft, skills and even Noble Phantasms).
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It was stated in the original novel that Heracles Noble Phantasm is crazy shit. Even if enemy concept can detroy the world... It won't affect Heracles if the said concept is not A-rank or higher.Gemmysaur said:
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Outside of the World is like Hakurei Daikekkai - it split our reality and supernatural reality. Dragons, faires and other beings are outside of the World. And Heracles ability can protect from those beings. Nasuverse concepts works as they describes as long as those description are not vague.Alakabamm said:
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