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Nasuverse General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter RegisNex1232
- Start date
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Well, after a while thinking about it. I think is time to fix the whole Small City-City level Strength.
First of all, from where it comes the Small City level rating? From HERE (2.7 Megatons to 5.1 Megatons)
Now, for what reason is used on Servants? Mainly because Berserk (in a Bad End) was able to deflect a weakened Excalibur.
I have some issues about this and something else...
1) Should Shirou's feat be related to Servants? He clearly made a copy of Excalibur on Heaven's Feel, but should the same as a weakened one?
via Word of God is stated that weapons such as Excalibur/Arondight/Ea can't be copied. So, should we take that a crappy copy = a weakened real one? Sounds wierd IMO.
2) Should we take a Bad End a something real? I mean, mostly of the Bad End are like a "What if" scenario.
3) About Heracles durability, shouldn't be Mountain level? I mean, he can clearly resist up to an A rank attack. Therefore i think he should have a higher stat.
4) GoB-UBW attack potency should be only Small City? Gilgamesh's GoB and Archer/Emiya UBW have a range of E-A++. At least Small City level, likely Mountain, maybe? GoB highest rank can easily hurt Heracles.
5) Also, about Fate/Zero-Unlimited Blade Works Saber. I think we should add Keys for that. Don't know exactly what, but we will see.
6) Gilgamesh Armor... looking on diferent places, i read that Gilgamesh Armor is the second most powerful armor, only below to Karna's armor. Mainly is because has a strong innate Magic Resistance.
First of all, from where it comes the Small City level rating? From HERE (2.7 Megatons to 5.1 Megatons)
Now, for what reason is used on Servants? Mainly because Berserk (in a Bad End) was able to deflect a weakened Excalibur.
I have some issues about this and something else...
1) Should Shirou's feat be related to Servants? He clearly made a copy of Excalibur on Heaven's Feel, but should the same as a weakened one?
via Word of God is stated that weapons such as Excalibur/Arondight/Ea can't be copied. So, should we take that a crappy copy = a weakened real one? Sounds wierd IMO.
2) Should we take a Bad End a something real? I mean, mostly of the Bad End are like a "What if" scenario.
3) About Heracles durability, shouldn't be Mountain level? I mean, he can clearly resist up to an A rank attack. Therefore i think he should have a higher stat.
4) GoB-UBW attack potency should be only Small City? Gilgamesh's GoB and Archer/Emiya UBW have a range of E-A++. At least Small City level, likely Mountain, maybe? GoB highest rank can easily hurt Heracles.
5) Also, about Fate/Zero-Unlimited Blade Works Saber. I think we should add Keys for that. Don't know exactly what, but we will see.
6) Gilgamesh Armor... looking on diferent places, i read that Gilgamesh Armor is the second most powerful armor, only below to Karna's armor. Mainly is because has a strong innate Magic Resistance.
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Archer can make a copy of Excalibur, but it would be downgraded in rank and suicidal to use against Saber. Shirou can possibly do the same I guess.
Bad Ends are fine IMO unless they diverge into a vastly different future.
Unsure if we can really upgrade Berserker...its true he can tank up to A rank, but we only have seen A+ and above used on him I think and those clearly surpassed it.
Gilgamesh should definitely at least be city level, and Emiya as well with Broken Phantasms I guess (because of rank downgrades for normal weapons and that jazz)
Our current Saber keys seem to be based on power of the master, we can change it if you want. I don't have a particular attachment to any one format.
Gilgamesh armor is somewhat on par with Berserker's God Hand, not in terms of resurrection of course but durability. I don't think it's ever been quantified though.
Bad Ends are fine IMO unless they diverge into a vastly different future.
Unsure if we can really upgrade Berserker...its true he can tank up to A rank, but we only have seen A+ and above used on him I think and those clearly surpassed it.
Gilgamesh should definitely at least be city level, and Emiya as well with Broken Phantasms I guess (because of rank downgrades for normal weapons and that jazz)
Our current Saber keys seem to be based on power of the master, we can change it if you want. I don't have a particular attachment to any one format.
Gilgamesh armor is somewhat on par with Berserker's God Hand, not in terms of resurrection of course but durability. I don't think it's ever been quantified though.
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I was always rather confused about the whole Town, Small City, and City level Servant Stats myself, as that would imply that their Noble Phantasms are only marginally stronger than their regular blows. That said, I do vaguely remember bad ends being canon as part of the whole Nasuverse thing, since Zelretch mentioned how all stories are true, just not in the same world. It's frequently discussed on Reddit apparently (not that it's the most reputable source).
The only problem with Mountain level Heracles is that:
1) Shirou's Caliburn would be Mountain level for killing him seven times over
2) ALL of Gil's high-ranking weapons would be Mountain level for killing him so many times.
3) Nine Lives Blade Works would be Mountain level or at least Large City level for slicing through him so many times.
That said, it's really weird that Florence Nightingale is an entire tier above him in durability, so it does make sense.
As for the UBW and Fate/Zero Keys, they'd have to be two separate tabs since her stats vary significantly between them (i.e. A Rank Strength under Rin and B-Rank Strength under Kiritsugu), but it would make sense over generalizing everything.
Well, according to Shirou, Gil's armor might have been breached if Saber was allowed to continue her attack, but the Type-Moon wiki said his armor was not in danger of being broken at all.
That said, you guys are probably a good bit more knowledgeable than me since I've yet to read the Visual Novel (though I'd like to) but this is my two cents on the matter.
The only problem with Mountain level Heracles is that:
1) Shirou's Caliburn would be Mountain level for killing him seven times over
2) ALL of Gil's high-ranking weapons would be Mountain level for killing him so many times.
3) Nine Lives Blade Works would be Mountain level or at least Large City level for slicing through him so many times.
That said, it's really weird that Florence Nightingale is an entire tier above him in durability, so it does make sense.
As for the UBW and Fate/Zero Keys, they'd have to be two separate tabs since her stats vary significantly between them (i.e. A Rank Strength under Rin and B-Rank Strength under Kiritsugu), but it would make sense over generalizing everything.
Well, according to Shirou, Gil's armor might have been breached if Saber was allowed to continue her attack, but the Type-Moon wiki said his armor was not in danger of being broken at all.
That said, you guys are probably a good bit more knowledgeable than me since I've yet to read the Visual Novel (though I'd like to) but this is my two cents on the matter.
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- Thread starter
- #246
I agree with Alakabamm for 1) and 2). Zelretch has the Second Magic, aka Kaleidoscope, which he can use to view and visit parallel verses, so that is implied to be the reason for Nasu's 'everything is canon', blahblahblah. So you can scale from Shirou to Berserker and so on.
For Saber, I don't mind if you add keys, as there is a difference in terms of power depending on who's the Master.
Regarding GoB and UBW, you would have to rate the AP/DC by the damage done by the weapons inside them. I don't have a problem with Gil having Mountain Level weapons, since his 'prototypes' are supposed to be on par with the actual NPs, with a few NPs being stronger as an exception. Though again, this only applies to the weapon/NP as EMIYA and Gil themselves aren't the ones actually doing the damage, the weapon is.
Just a reminder that pluses and minuses on Ranks like A+, B++ and so on are only active under specific circumstances, like a power boost from Mad Enhancement, Arondight and such. The actual Rank in effect normally is just the letter, so a guy with B++ STR is only stronger than a guy with A STR under specific circumstances. You can extend this to all of the Servant Parameters including NP Ranks and damage as well. So we may want to edit some profiles to say that they get a boost, or are stronger under some conditions.
Re: Mountain level Herc in Durability, I'll have to check on BL since the stat we use to measure Durability is Constitution/Endurance, Constitution being introduced in F/GO profiles. I just want to check if CON/END is straight up toughness, or if it involves the general health of a Servant as well.
So overall, scaling from Shirou is fine, since he's at his absolute weakest and most Servants are stronger than him, GoB and UBW ratings can be upgraded based on what the weapons inside have damaged, since they're just bringing them out and KamiYasha, you can add keys for Saber if you want. For durability and rankings, I'll check on durability and we may need to edit some profiles saying that they're normally at a certain level of ___, but that can change depending on circumstances.
That's all from me, I'll check back later.
For Saber, I don't mind if you add keys, as there is a difference in terms of power depending on who's the Master.
Regarding GoB and UBW, you would have to rate the AP/DC by the damage done by the weapons inside them. I don't have a problem with Gil having Mountain Level weapons, since his 'prototypes' are supposed to be on par with the actual NPs, with a few NPs being stronger as an exception. Though again, this only applies to the weapon/NP as EMIYA and Gil themselves aren't the ones actually doing the damage, the weapon is.
Just a reminder that pluses and minuses on Ranks like A+, B++ and so on are only active under specific circumstances, like a power boost from Mad Enhancement, Arondight and such. The actual Rank in effect normally is just the letter, so a guy with B++ STR is only stronger than a guy with A STR under specific circumstances. You can extend this to all of the Servant Parameters including NP Ranks and damage as well. So we may want to edit some profiles to say that they get a boost, or are stronger under some conditions.
Re: Mountain level Herc in Durability, I'll have to check on BL since the stat we use to measure Durability is Constitution/Endurance, Constitution being introduced in F/GO profiles. I just want to check if CON/END is straight up toughness, or if it involves the general health of a Servant as well.
So overall, scaling from Shirou is fine, since he's at his absolute weakest and most Servants are stronger than him, GoB and UBW ratings can be upgraded based on what the weapons inside have damaged, since they're just bringing them out and KamiYasha, you can add keys for Saber if you want. For durability and rankings, I'll check on durability and we may need to edit some profiles saying that they're normally at a certain level of ___, but that can change depending on circumstances.
That's all from me, I'll check back later.
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Not sure if this is relevant, but Heracles could lift the entire sky (which presumably is the same as our sky and the one his myth), meaning that he lifted 5 x 10^15 Metric Tons. Is this KE-able?
Gil's armor is more tricky, since I can't remember any feats for it outside of taking multiple attacks from Saber. In UBW he doesn't wear it, and in Heaven's Feel he gets eaten.
Gil's armor is more tricky, since I can't remember any feats for it outside of taking multiple attacks from Saber. In UBW he doesn't wear it, and in Heaven's Feel he gets eaten.
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Not really, since the Servant containers are explicitly said to limit/nerf the HS summoned. So unless we're talking about a hypothetical Herk at his prime (when he was alive), then that feat is meaningless since his overall strength and power is weakened as a Servant.
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If Herc's durability is boosted to Mountain level, should Saber Alter be upgraded as well?
Gilgamesh should probably be "Up to 7-A with Gate of Babylon".
Gilgamesh should probably be "Up to 7-A with Gate of Babylon".
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Heavens_Feel
She/Her- 227
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Muh ramses!!!! Hype tbh
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I doubt that they can match them... Bullet curtain is not something we see during GoB or UBW. It is closer to MMM. Not enough density of projectiles.A Sword Dancer said:
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I have some info about Fate/GO's recent chapter.
- Solomon screwing up ANOTHER Timelime (As if this is something new).
- In this "new" Timelime Bediviere didn't throw Excalibur to the Lady of the Lake. (Instead, it was fused to his right arm by Merlin) and managed to live 1500 years (Although, with his mind at the verge of being shattered).
- Arturia didn't die. In fact, she is Immortal and using Rhongomyniad.
- All the Knights of the round table were killed by Arturia. (Aside Tristan, Lancelot, and Gawain).
- Tristan doesn't hoppen his eyes. (He barely opens when using his NP).
- GRAND! ASSASSIN! (Well... Kinda. it was hinted to be a Grand Servant). He is the founder of the Hashashin. Aparently he has some ability kinda similiar to the MEoDP... He killed Ozzy with that. (Top Tier Indeed).
- He looks like Ainz from Overlord.
- Ozzy has his own "Ozzy Mobile". (It's so hilarius... for real! )
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They were disagreed with her idealist and rebel against Camelot.
Only Gawain, Lancelot, Tristan and Mordred were okay with her ideals.
Arturia wants to erase human history without humanity's evil. Due to Bedivere's fault for not throw Excalibur into the lake, she failed to die at Camlann - where she supposed to return the lance, so she became the servant "Lion King" who has identical appearance to her but different inside, carrying the lance and wander around like a ghost. The Lion King kept wielding the lance and became the Goddess Rhon. This is why Bedivere were unable to find her at the resting place.
PS: The nature of something hidden inside Rhon is of a divine spirit - a goddess-like being to be exact. This influence caused her to be what she is.
Also, Holmes and Watson appeared in this new chapter.
Only Gawain, Lancelot, Tristan and Mordred were okay with her ideals.
Arturia wants to erase human history without humanity's evil. Due to Bedivere's fault for not throw Excalibur into the lake, she failed to die at Camlann - where she supposed to return the lance, so she became the servant "Lion King" who has identical appearance to her but different inside, carrying the lance and wander around like a ghost. The Lion King kept wielding the lance and became the Goddess Rhon. This is why Bedivere were unable to find her at the resting place.
PS: The nature of something hidden inside Rhon is of a divine spirit - a goddess-like being to be exact. This influence caused her to be what she is.
Also, Holmes and Watson appeared in this new chapter.
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Pretty cool design though.KamiYasha said:
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King Hassan (that's his name) almost kills Ozy, who survives since he was in his temple at the time. He recovers a bit, fights/tests Gudao/ko for a while (becoming Amon Ra in the process) before offering his temple's beasts as allies against the KOTR and Artoria.KamiYasha said:
It's basically KOTR + Artoria as the evil empire trying to vs Hassans' as the resistance vs Ozy and Nitocris who are just there cause lol sand, lol desert. And XuanZhang, who keeps getting in trouble trying to go to India and needing to be rescued.
Holmes and Hassan will be added later on after this Chapter, with Holmes telling the player to not trust Roman. He also left the books in London which Andersen was reading about the Grand Class.
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Yeah, Ozzy survived thanks to being in his temple.RegisNex1232 said:
XuanZang mini history its funny, i mean, trying to go to the india in a world where was kinda like reshaped and no one know where the hell are they.
Holmes also said that "One day something which burns the world to ash will take form" (a.k.a. Solomon).
I'm still playing London, and i read that Camelot is hard as f***.
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We also get Mashu and Roman backstories. Apparently, Mashu was a designer baby with perfect circuits and a pure soul made for the Demi-Servant project, which involves fusing a HS's soul to Mashu's for profit?? (you know, usual Nasu magus stuff). She's 16 now and has 2 years left to live, and the Demi-Servant project went weird with her since the HS who was summoned didn't want to risk Mashu's life.
Roman was also involved in the Fuyuki 2004 Grail War (different timeline from the FSN GW) with Olga's father (the posh Rin substitute who got killed off in the beginning).
We also have Arash saving the villagers outside Camelot with Stella from Rhon, True Assassin using his Cursed Arm against Tristan, which King Hassan later dispels.
King Hassan is also the first and last Hassan ever, and is like the Grim Reaper for all Hassans in that he's the last thing they see before going down the wrong path, fall into depravity, blahblahblah.
Roman was also involved in the Fuyuki 2004 Grail War (different timeline from the FSN GW) with Olga's father (the posh Rin substitute who got killed off in the beginning).
We also have Arash saving the villagers outside Camelot with Stella from Rhon, True Assassin using his Cursed Arm against Tristan, which King Hassan later dispels.
King Hassan is also the first and last Hassan ever, and is like the Grim Reaper for all Hassans in that he's the last thing they see before going down the wrong path, fall into depravity, blahblahblah.
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So just how much strong is Arturia lancer and King hassam i'm sure they is top tier.
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So Shishou have second form , huh ?
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bRYbgVaLXsrlC9h-z980qO7Ku4ELNORhoc86VvHEHhE/mobilebasic
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bRYbgVaLXsrlC9h-z980qO7Ku4ELNORhoc86VvHEHhE/mobilebasic
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So can you make the list from top tier and mid tier ? Now i just wonder just how much change ?KamiYasha said:
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I dunno, I highly doubt that the Nasuverse would be all that linear. For example, True Assassin could technically kill any Servant if not for the fact that he's one of the squishiest Servants in the franchise (that honor would go to the likes of Shakespeare and Andersen).Saint rider 890 said:
But top tiers so far include: Gil, Scathach, Solomon (Cheating Bastard), Mahabharata Bros., Cu Alter, Ozzy, Lancer Arturia, Heracles (anything that isn't Assassin or Berserker, but preferbably Archer or Saber) and the like.
I'd still like to see Assassin Heracles for the laughs.
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Ozzymandias lines are great.
-In party with Karna: Hou…… These are the signs of a pharaoh, no matter the era. It is impossible otherwise for the sun to become a person. So, I wonder if he is a pharaoh.
-In party with Tamamo: Hou…… So she is the incarnation of the sun. She is Tamamo? If that is so, I am her elder brother, and she, my little sister. I will permit her to call me brother, since that is what I am.
-In party with Karna: Hou…… These are the signs of a pharaoh, no matter the era. It is impossible otherwise for the sun to become a person. So, I wonder if he is a pharaoh.
-In party with Tamamo: Hou…… So she is the incarnation of the sun. She is Tamamo? If that is so, I am her elder brother, and she, my little sister. I will permit her to call me brother, since that is what I am.
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Out of curiosity, should we call Saber Arturia or Artoria? TV Tropes and the Type-Moon wiki stick with the latter, which makes more sense historically since the legend of King Arthur is partially based on Lucius Artorius Castius. However, the former still has merit since she's obviously the distaff counterpart of King Arthur.
The reason why I'm asking is because I made MHX's profile and Kamiyasha changed every mention of Artoria to Arturia. Thus I'm trying for consistency here.
The reason why I'm asking is because I made MHX's profile and Kamiyasha changed every mention of Artoria to Arturia. Thus I'm trying for consistency here.
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I prefer Arturia.
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